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Nerf SWF completely.
Answers
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You wouldn't get faster matches with less killers. There is no reason to believe there is a surplus of killers because of the time it takes to fill lobbies once you get a lobby-match. Sometimes a few seconds, but the fact there is even a wait at all(following an extraordinarily long and seemingly artificial lobby-match search) means the session isn't finding survivors to fill the vacancies.
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Smash is only just for casuals.
Still balanced around top 1%
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You do if you're intelligent. Good developers always balance around optimal gameplay. The killer equivalent of swf is pre-rework Legion. He was fun as hell for some killers. He was also weak as ######### if you didn't use his chase breaking cheese. But when played optimally he was massively unfun for survivors. Should we have refused to balance him because the minority of Legion players played him optimally and most were just casually playing Legion to have fun? Or should we have balanced around optimal gameplay like good developers do?
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300 pages of feedback and nothings been changed. Its pretty clear that nothing will ever change and i'm okay with that. Only thing thats frustrating when you guys say "what would you suggest" when there are literally 300 pages of feedback.
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I imagine that PS4 it's pretty bad because you don't need a SWF to be in a party and communicate with others survivors
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Literally survivors join the lobbies and are already in a party and just send out invites to the others. Happens almost every match. Why do people think they don't instantly ready up? Getting the party chat together, that's why... Would be nice to create a mode where mics won't work period like hardcore or something and it disables party chat. It's a really big problem and it's gonna keep getting worse.
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Why do most people moan and cry about everything in this game just because they don't always escape (survivor) or because they don't kill everyone (killer)? Isn't the point of this game to pip?? I've pipped as a killer plenty of times and not fully sacrificed a survivor and they all escaped. I've also pipped as a survivor plenty of times and died so I honestly don't why people moan about everything including SWF just because the game doesn't go 100% the way THEY want it to.
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@FredKrueger sorry but your assumption that people don't ready up because they are getting their party together is wrong. Maybe that's what you do but most people don't ready up because they searched for a match and then went to go do something else in the real world like go to the toilet or make a sandwich etc.. or they are spending their bloodpoints
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No, the point is to enjoy the game and have fun. New players are not having fun playing killer and get burnt out playing survivor all the time. It's like joining Madden UT right now as a noob and trying to compete with your standard team, vs the other guy who has the best of everything. Only difference is you can't shell out $100 and upgrade your killers to the best. And no, I wouldn't promote any service on DBD where you get to pay for blood points, you should always have to earn them. But they could make it a little more balanced is all I'm saying. New players that want to main killers are gonna quit playing this game in less than a week because of toxic SWF groups.
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Ah i see. Your getting mad because your one of those toxic players, and were discussing a way to take your crutches away. It's ok buddy. You can insult me if you want, but I main killer buddy and I have never used a mic as a survivor nor played SWF. And by the way, you have alllll the time in the world to have your perks ready, once you enter the lobbies, what's the delay then? Did I burst your secret bubble there buddy?
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@FredKrueger sorry I don't agree if your new to a game how can you expect to pick it up and be good in a couple hours it's not going to happen, and that's any game not just dbd. When I was learning the game, swf or good survivor teams in general taught me the most. Yes it was frustrating but was also very informative
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I sent a support ticket in a while ago and got a reply that they been looking into this problem. So far the suggestions i seen have been to increase the time on gen repair per swf group members, add a box to check to not be paired with swf groups (my favorite since no nerf needed), lock survivors in first person, increase killers hit radius, few others not worth mentioning.
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@FredKrueger you didn't burst any bubble I was just giving you an insight into what might be happening. Even when I'm playing killer I might start a lobby then go do something and come back in time for the loading screen or start of the match. Unless I'm in a party I never just sit in front of my TV screen waiting in a lobby regardless of what game I'm playing
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So if my argument is invalid, I guess 15 of my friends opinions don't matter either, right? I mean, there just new players to the game but what does that matter right? Just instantly get better and counter SWF groups that have maxed out perks, best loadouts, and you with 2 crappy perks, crap loadouts, and a frame rate that's so horrible at times, it looks like survivors literally vanish like ghosts. Have you ever played this on ps4? If you haven't, then why are you even commenting? If so, then I dunno what "magic" You pull off. Ever since the patch it's gotten even worse. 20+ mins just to go to a lobby that only gets 3 and won't get a fourth. Everyone has their own opinion but to call someone wrong just because YOU don't agree is stupid my friend. This game has become a disaster for new players on console. Nothing but party groups running around with mics pointing out every move the killer makes. You wanna tell me I'm wrong and dumb, then prove me WRONG smart guy. 🙅♂️
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What if I want to play with a buddy and set it up as a drinking game?
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You can't nerf SWF.
It isn't a matter of should or shouldn't, it simply isn't an option because if you try an give a mechanical penalty to using the SWF button. Then Survivors will just use the solo que at the same time as their friends in order to get the same effect, the only difference being that now you have no way of knowing that they have any VC or anything. Not to mention it punishes everyone who isn't taking advantage of VC.
You can say we should balance for the 1% all day, however that point doesn't apply here. Competitive survivors can que with friends and not use VC just as easily as casuals.
You solve the issue with UI changes that help bridge the gap. You don't need as much as you would think.
Simply having indicators for what actions survivors are doing, who is in the killers TR/in a chase and having the aura of Survivors near a hooked survivor (say like 24 meters?) would do wonders and nearly bridge the gap entirely.
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Some people have mentioned giving solos more info. It's not even a UI or information thing to me. I don't think comms inherently gives SWF an insurmountable advantage. To me, the issue is when second chance perks become 10th chance perks, which is often the case with red rank SWF squads. A single instaheal can change a game. Multiple coordinated instaheals really put a strain on killers. Even multiple people having DS can buy enough time for Adrenaline to go off. I'm often downing people fast enough where 60 seconds is long enough for me to down 2 people without tunneling them. It's super fun to eat a DS, watch them tap a gen, and see Adrenaline go off. It just feels cheap. Like one party is having to interact skillfully and one party is just stacking the deck. And yeah, I could counter all of that with NOED, but I'd be doing the very same thing I'm complaining about. I'm obviously not saying every SWF is like this, and obviously not every game is like this, but that's how it feels when it happens.
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Not sure what you are talking about here. Smash has huge tournaments with actual money prizes and regional championships. Not really the same thing. Just took my son to one in Detroit earlier this year. Over 100 contestants and the final 16 were insane good. The winner got over 5k in prizes. You'll never see that with DBD.
@Dehitay Legion was broken and even the developers admitted he was not being used the way they intended. The chase mechanic was exploited due to poor development. Apples and oranges. I'll never accuse BHVR's developers of being good, or competent for that matter. They are very short-sighted and are unable to adapt to exploits in their design. They are fantastic at conceptualizing great ideas, but horrible at putting them to the application stage.
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If casuals are destined to die easily to a medicore killer, the game would die immediately. Nobody wants to lose ALL the time, including yourself.
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Smash is officially stated to be a "casual party game" by Masahiro Sakurai, the guy who created it.
The COMMUNITY are the ones who make the game competitive. Smash was never intentionally designed to be a game that people would play in tournaments. Yet, Nintendo still balances the game around what goes on in a tournament, despite the fact that they intend for the game to be casual. It wasn't until Ultimate that Nintendo actually started taking the balance even more seriously than they had in Smash 4.
DBD was intended to be competitive from the start. This is evidence by the fact there is a Ranking system. And no, it doesn't matter how flawed that system is, it still exists. Plus the devs have held an official tournament before.
So, with that said, there is 0 excuse for this game to be balanced around low skill players.
Also I've been to Smash tournaments as well. My mindset is that is a fighting game player. I understand the casual mindset, because I was like that before I got into fighting games with Street Fighter 4. Fighting games changed my perspective on how games should be balanced in general.
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I meant on higher level players. You have survivors de-pipping on purpose to stay around levels 16-20 that have played for a long time and already have everything, know the map layouts, know the loops, know each killers strength and weakness and exploit the crap outta them,going against noobs trying to learn the game. They do it on purpose because they suck at lower levels and know they can take advantage of "new" Killers. I want a solution for that issue. I think once you reach rank 15, you shouldn't be allowed to go back and play with noobs by de-pipping. You should be stuck in a certain class of players on your skill. That would solve a lot of the issues and start banning toxic players for being toxic. Don't like it? Play the game right then. Quit being toxic.
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SWF is also broken and not being used the way it was intended. You don't believe built in psuedo forms of Bond, Kindred, Object of Obsession, Empathy, and maps were intended, do you? SWF naturally comes with a significant portion of all those things. And that's not including the quick time high efficiency shot calling and multi-survivor perk combinations.
And yes, before somebody gives me the same staple line of "not all survivors do it", I repeat not all Legions did the chase breaking cheese mechanics. Yet it was broken as hell and ruined the fun for survivors just like high efficiency swf is broken and ruins the fun for killers.
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There is an easy fix if the developers actually cared about balancing the game. There should be a competitive mode that restricted specific items for both groups and DOES NOT ALLOW SWF. There should also be a qp mode that allows all. Until they get rid of levels and stop allowing swf in these non ranked but actually ranked matches the cancer will continue. I wish theyd fix this #########.
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@Dehitay As Peanits has pointed out, and statistics posted by BHVR have shown, SWF is a small grouping. Most SWF are not hit squads with meta perks. Most I run into get destroyed easily. Most are just friends having fun, and the killer still has the power mode. The less than 10% of players who are in the red ranks face those top tier groups. That's what the red ranks are for. Tough challenge, good players. Some hang, some don't.
I have zero problem with SWF, but I usually hang in the purple and green ranks. I don't care to play so hardcore that I push for red ranks. It's a casual game and I play it that way. Nerf SWF, and you punish the majority of SWF players that are not doing what you think they are.
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I can't believe even after I preemptively gave the response to the "not all survivors do it" arguement, somebody still gave it to me but without a response to my counter to it. But since I apparently need to repeat myself repeating myself, I'll go ahead and repeat myself. A minority of players abused Legion's chase breaking cheese mechanics. It's utterly hypocritical to say that swf shouldn't be touched if you believe that Legion should have been.
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lol i thought i seen it all when it comes to complaining about killers or survivors but this takes the cake. smh this is sad. Bruh just rock hex ruin and corrupted intervention and the ghostface perk. You literally counter gen rush with that right there. They can only gen rush you at that point after the hex and corrupted are gone.
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Let not perfect be the enemy of good. A problem doesn't have to be completely removed to be alleviated to a large degree. If you are only ever going to use the absolute most incompetent SWF group as the baseline for balancing then you simply have no intention of ever bringing that mode in line. Which by the way was a stated goal with solo survivor buffs, being able to buff the killer to compensate.
Yet you do not use the worst killer imaginable as a baseline for balancing them. Casual is literally a term thrown around to invoke a sense of sympathy for survivor side propaganda because it has no definable aspect. Is a pro SWF group bored and playing sub par casual? Is a group of terrible's trying their utmost casual?
Simply NOT facilitating group queue adds enough disincentive to alleviate the majority of the problem.
Post edited by Tucking_Friggered on1 -
Nerf swf? Doesn't the game give you enough solos to kick around in compensation?
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I know it's not that simple, but come on, "how would you suggest"? People are making suggestions for years already. We've never seen devs at least adress the issue and try to solve it.
Also, casual groups of friends, even when not being toxic, still have advantage because most of them use voice communication, and that helps a lot anyway.
And that logic also applies for: why can't killers play AGAINST their friends on public matches?
"Players would use this to be toxic and team up survivors with killers".
But not everyone would do it. Many people just don't have 4 friends playing Dead by Daylight to have a fun Kill Your Friends match, and would like to face their friend with 3 unknown survivors to fill the rest.
It's the same line of thought.
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how many of these types of "discussion pages" have to pop up each week? why do you needlessly flame the community managers when they comment on these posts? nothing is wrong with swf. most of them don't even coordinate right at all or play overly altruistic. i don't believe it's that big of a problem. also no one wants to play kill your friends because there is no gain to be found there. swf is a thing in this game and will stay in the game for the rest of the games life as it has been said multiple times it was an intended feature from the start. before you start saying i'm a survivor main or whatever i main killer and have had next to no problem with 95% of swf no matter how annoying they are being.
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A few thing I think could possibly work. Again, just a possibility:
- Give the SWF survivors a Bloodpoint bonus on top of the nerf. This would compensate for the small disavantage, so you don't feel punished for playing with your friends. If you just queue solo at the same time as your friends, you won't get this bonus. So you would have a reason to avoid doing this.
- Give the killer more information when playing against a 3-4 SWF. Could be aura-reading at some specific moments, like when they are performing a certain actions together. Could be sound cues, visual cues, lots of possibilities here. Most of them wouldn't be gamebreaking anyway. The idea is to compensate for the information advantage the survivors have when playing SWF.
- Put a limit for information perks when a survivor is on a SWF team. A requirement or range limit to read auras with certain perks, by example. The idea is to compensate for the fact that talking with a friend in the match gives a lot of information by itself.
- Put a limit for the number of very rare and ultra-rare items or add-ons on a single SWF team. Come on, this wouldn't be a nerf for people playing casual games. If you have two Brand New Parts or 3 instaheals, how is that not "trying as hard as possible to win"?
- Slowing down action speed, or at least gen speed, for survivors on SWF, since they have less trouble knowing when to aproach or leave a gen or exit gate switch, knowing where the killer is by what their friends tell them. They can also just plan and reunite always on the same generator, doing it at maximum speed while making a combo with gen speed perks and toolboxes. Frequently, 3 people do a gen while one is chased by the killer. It's one of those things a solo player can hardly pull off.
- Of course, there is the option of, instead, adding new features to the game that give solo players a similar amount of info about other survivors that the Survive With Friend groups have (about OTHER SURVIVORS. I don't really think the amount of info SWF get about the killer should be possible at every match. It's a horror game, after all), and balance the game around it. I've seen some good suggestions about this on forums already. That could at some point mean slight buffs for killers so they don't get at disavantage against all survivors the same way they are against SWF today.
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Ok, maybe I have a solution. I'm not saying to get rid of SWF, I'm saying get rid of the ability to communicate with other survivors via mic's or messages. Make them always be on there heels and rely more on their skill and loadouts, rather someone in there ear or messaging every step the killer makes to help them avoid getting caught. That's not skill, that's a HUGE crutch and their not learning how to actually avoid the killer, they just rely on someone else to carry them. That's my point on PS4. Happens about 75% of the time. Your telling me that's not an issue? I guess it's not if you play survivor, but as a killer main, it really sucks.
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