Camping, Tunneling and Slugging are fine and fair.
If you disagree give me the reason why.
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Define fair
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You're right. Though I understand it's frustrating to be on the receiving end and it's honestly the main reason I don't play survivor more
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They are strategies that you can use and help you win the game. What is not fair is face camp, mori spam.
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anything you can do in this game short of exploiting unintended mechanics or otherwise cheating is "fair", but whether or not something is a fun and/or effective strategy is up for debate
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I think the main thing is each of these now have perk counters to them. The survivors who complain about them typically don't want to make room in their loadout for said perks. An example would be slugging and unbreakable
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@DarkGGhost I disagree with that part. Face camp and mori spam are also fair and countereable (the rest of the sirvivors should do generators)
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Fine maybe, fair not so much
What am i supposed to do against a bubba that downs me within the first to minutes of the game and then proceeds to basement camp me?
Not that they arent allowed to be used, but i feel they are pretty scummy and ruin the gameplay experience for a lot of people
guess i am wrong because i said something that isnt killer friendly17 -
The reason i say face camp and mori spam is not fair is that they don't have counterplay. Tunneling learns loops, use ds ( even tho i hate those things). Camping uses BT and doesn't rush hooks. Slugging use unbreakable.
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Everything that isn't an exploit is fair. Yes, even Prayer Beads my guy.
It shouldn't be up to the players to handicap their games just because the devs don't know how to properly balance the game.
All the stupid OP stuff at this point is fair game from both sides. Until we get the reasoning behind the Vanilla Test, everyone should continue to break the game as much as possible without exploits or glitches.
It's the only way they'll take things seriously. Everyone should reveal their true final forms.
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Yes if you want to win they certainly work, although I'd rather have a fun match for everybody than win.
I could condone those actions when facing toxic survivors, then it's all fair
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@RoKrueger I'm just curious as to how mori spam is countered. Don't say "don't get caught " because that is a pure bs concept. I've yet to meet a survivor I could not down if I tried hard enough. Even the best survivor gets caught.
As for the original post, is camping/tunneling cheating? No. Is it exploiting mechanics? No. Is it fair? Absolutely not, especially at low ranks. As I stated above, every survivor gets caught. Once a low to mid rank survivor gets caught by a camper or tunneler, they are pretty much hosed.
But that is not what this is about. It is about you validating the activity in your own mind. So here are a few counter thoughts.
1. As on occasional tactic, both have their uses, especially at the higher ranks.
2. At lower ranks, it is bad for the game as a whole when there are so many hardcore campers and tunnelers. I played a few survivor matches last night and had 8 of 10 vs hardcore campers and tunnelers. Very boring, and sucked for some of the newbies who were victimized. As a few of them intimated, they have no interest in playing a game they can't actually learn to play. They enter a match, get caught easily one time because they are new, then tunneled to death. Not fun, hard to get new players to stay, therefore the playerbase grows stagnant.
3. Makes for an already boring survivor role to be even more boring. Best thing to do when facing a camper/tunneled is to hit gens and totems and roll out. I think the overabundance of those types of killers had a part in the current gen rush problem. Survivors were pushed into a habit of hit gens and go.
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"fair", insofar as not being an exploit, sure
that's not the same as balanced. that's a whole other topic of discussion, and not what this thread is about
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@Warlock_2020 I see the survivors as a team, not as 4 individuals. If one of them is being camped or mori spamed, the rest of them have a huge window to complelte generators and escape.
When I say "Don't get caught" I mean "Don't be the easiest to catch of the group" that will increase your chances to escape because a smart killer will go for the weakest link first.
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Dude ######### mori spam. That's tantamount to holding the game hostage.
I'm sorry, but the intended bleedout timer is made nearly 4x longer by Mori spam. It has no effective purpose unlike camping and slugging.
Mori spam IS toxic.
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@RoKrueger I think that is where your assumption goes awry. The survivors are only a team if they are SWF. The core development is not teamwork as much as self preservation. If you think teamwork is the name of the game, you have not played much solo survivor. Teamwork has its limits and they are not far from the starting line.
If a total stranger is being camped, your odds of survival are much higher if you pound out a gen or two in the time they are being camped. If a friend is being camped in your SWF, you can coordinate the other SWF members via comms to free them. Very different situation. As the stats have shown, most matches are not vs SWF groups.
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This i will call it face camp so it's not fair by my rule book. And why camping, tunneling, and slugging is not fair. I could say looping is not fair either.
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What is the counterplay for the hooked survivor then? He'll lose the pip and time. Also he'll not get many points.
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Well lopping is toxic, there are loops where you can't catch up until blood lust 3,unacceptable!
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In a team based role you're willingly putting your survival and score in the hands of others, that's just how it is. If you died because you were proximity camped then that's on you for being caught and your team for being unable to rescue you. As Survivor you're part of a team, not just an individual.
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You can't activate it, if you are the first facecamped survivor.
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@darkgghost Looping is the only thing survivors have once seen by the killer. Looping is dumb, but it has nothing to do with fair. If you want to talk about unfair things vs killers, then talk about coordinated SWFs that harass the killer throughout the game. That is more like it. But, by your standards, that's fair and legit.
Seriously, don't confuse a legit game mechanic, with fair. It is a very weak argument and one that comes from a pretty boorish mindset.
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Mori spamming is absolutely not fair. It only has one real purpose: to grief someone into disconnecting.
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If someone can get ya with BT, they pretty much swap spots with you, and then THEY can get themselves out using deliverance.
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@Dr_Smith_ Sucks to be that guy. Try harder next time so you don't be that guy ;-)
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@Warlock_2020 Then we are in agreement. If you don't want to be the camped survivor you just have to be sneakier or loop better than the other survivors. That way your chances of escaping will increase
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@RoKrueger Nice try, but you know as well as I do that once you lock on, there is little a survivor can do if you want them down. So, not exactly easy to counter. Add in a decent tunnel off the hook and easy Mori. Move to next guy, likely the idiot who saved the first. It is all a game of chance as to whether the killer is sharp-eyed enough to see you. I don't call that a counter.
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I will agree with you about camping.
But I will NOT agree about Mori spamming. Why do you seem to be ignoring the people that are tackling you about this?
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@Warlock_2020 If I am facecamping a survivor, the best thing the other survivors can do is complete gens and leave. Those 3 survivors will have made more points that I did. If you don't want to be that survivor, be harder to find and catch. Of course, the rest of the survivors are welcome to try and save their friend. 7/10 times I get to kill one or two more :-D
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First SWF needs a lot of nerfing in order to be balanced. Second, no one has a problem with one loop the problem comes when there are 2 or 3 loops so close that the survivors can run there and have no danger.
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Griefers don't care about their strategy being weak. They only care about making sure one or more people have the most miserable time possible, preferably with a disconnect. Mori spam is only good for that exact purpose. It is a scummy thing to do.
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if you think making survivors want to DC is a "strategy" i would highly recommend taking some time away from this game
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They always have been and the survivors have the power to punish both strats and make them non viable.
Of course the emblems mean punishing is bad for survivors but it is what it is.
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Look dude point blank my objective is to kill you. I'm not letting an injured survivor off the hook period. If I find you, I will at most down you again. If there's no DS, I'm most certainly going after that hooked survivor to down and rehook him. I'm not letting you escape period.
If you piss me off, I will camp you. I don't care about rank anyways. I want you out of the game and I will make sure you are out.
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I mean, the primary objective of any game is having fun.
Obviously no one should get reported or punished for camping or tunneling, but I firmly believe it's the devs job to make game design changes that punish antifun strats as much as possible.
Yes, this also includes making depip squad strats less optimal too because no one likes facing survs that spread out around the map and finish gens before you can do anything.
Punishing that stuff should be a game design thing not a player behavior thing.
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cancelling the animation a couple of times itself is not griefing, no, but doing it enough to the point where somebody feels like they have to disconnect is griefing
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@TAG I thought you were so sure of your point of view. I respected that. Sure @Peanits give us your opinion
To clarify: I agree that spaming UNTIL a survivor disconects is surely griefing. Failing to complete the animation a couple of times and they incidentaly disconect before you can complete it is not. Are you telling me that all those pre-nerfed Legion players were grievers? I don't think so
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I am, but you seem to not listen to people who are not of authority.
You have admitted that you are trying to get people to disconnect. What you are trying to do is griefing.
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Oh look at that as soon as a mod is mentioned you start damage control. Too bad you admitted to trying to get people to dc.
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I don't deny that it serves my objective if a survivor disconects early in the match. If I can subteltily trigger that response on people who are prone to that, I will. Be it start the mori animation a couple of times, hit them when they are on the hook, camp them, etc
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"If I can subteltily trigger that response on people who are prone to that, I will. Be it start the mori animation a couple of times"
Pretty sure that is griefing.
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Why does everybody hate slugging?
What is so bad about it?
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There is nothing wrong about it if you are playing as killer.
It makes it harder for survivors to escape if there are only two of them and you slugg one so you deny the opening of the hatch. That's why it is hated by survivors
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Of course. I'll use my deliverance so the killer can insta-down me cause he's literally right next to me. How could I not see that.
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Your feelings are just that though, your feelings. You feel its scummy, but objectively it isn't as if you've played killer enough you understand that Bubba can't really handle the large maps this game is known for. He's always been more of a defensive killer so basement plays are highly optimal for him. He's really the only killer that benefits from using insidious. People feel it ruins the gameplay experience, but objectively this sort of scenario is what the game on paper was expected to create. People would really benefit from playing both sides and seeing the entire picture.
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Why is facecamping in your opinion unfair and "normal camping" fair? What is even your definition of fairness?
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Tunneling isn't wrong camping isn't wrong their in the game so they are valid tactics calling tunneling and camping wrong would be like calling looping an exploit.
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I wouldn't say that these being legit strategies makes them fair.
But it's not your job to be fair.
It's like using instant heals. It's unfair but you should do it anyways because why wouldn't you? Unfair does not mean "OMG toxic and stupid!" It just means not fair. As a gamer playing a video game it is your job to make the game as unfair as you can for your opponent in order to counteract him trying to do the same.
Asking if something is fair or not only matters in the context of making changes to the game, it is meaningless for questioning player behavior.
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