We need more people vocal about Legion.
Watching Tru3ta1ent is so frustrating....for the wrong reasons.
Watching him play Omega Blink Nurse...
Watching him play Gen Grabber Spirit...
And the Devs had the balls to say that Legion's addons were too powerful?!
This drives me nuts!
With Legion's addons it took what, THREE HITS TO DOWN?!
Why was that so OP?!
No I'm not asking for these killers (or any other with OP addons like huntress) to be nerfed!
Just pointing out the pure BS that BHVR gave us for nerfing one of the weakest killers to the state that it is in.
When will BHVR actually acknowledge what they did to Legion???
@not_quen
@almo
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I fear, postings like yours lead the devs to the wrong conclusion. Aka. let us nerf the other killers to hell, before we do anything good to the Legion :).
But yeah, you are right - a Legion without exploiting and as a maximum green addons was never op. Someone who says something different, let you only chuckle with a hand for your mouth (because we like beeing polite^^).
On the other hand, I need to say that frank's mixtape was pretty powerful. I think this addon and the exploiters have we mostly to thank for the Legion patch besides the nerf crying kids and that is pretty unfair towards all the honest playing Legions to that time.
TL:DR I hope for the future:
-That they undone a big part of the Legion patch, so that the Legion actual can make fun and is different to m1 killers.
-That they never again! rework the Legion or any other killer on the same way, they have did with the old Legion (besides making the Legion rework undone of course...).
-And that they stop listening to the "we open nerf threads for everything" minority.
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I don't know if we get ever a honest answer to this or similar questions.
Still, if they are brave enough to do their part, so that they undone enough things, I willing to forget and to forgive^^.
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here: 5 hits to down someone in feral frenzy but old speed and vault brung back and miss attack penalty removed now we can feel legion like before except we have to tunnel longer which doesn't matter because we still have fun while the survivors finish gens :)
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They did acknowledge what was done to Legion in the previous Legion post it wasn't satisfactory. A dev stated their reasons for a few of the nerfs but did not adequately explain why there were so many.
What reason was given is that Legion needed more counterplay. Again, pre-nerf Legion had counterplay. If a Legion didn't bounce between survivors he would lose gen pressure and get rushed.
Now he has too much counterplay yet kept what a lot of people thought was unfun about him to verse which is mending over and over.
Still ridiculous that Legion "inflicts" borrowed time to survivors. What is considered a strong perk.
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I had appreciate their answer, but still, the answer that was given was not satisfying as you already metnioned.
Imo, for all the things they nerfed and also that they nerfed the Legion more as any other killer, far as I know - the answer was not universal enough and imo sometimes also a bit... to far away from the reality, we as Legion players had to face, to the pre patch times (something like no counterplay is imo just a phrase thrown in from a few lazy survivors pre patch Legion times).
I think, I know why they nerfed the Legion like they have, and if I am right, I can understand why they gave no honest answer to that, but a answer is one thing.
For what I am really waiting for, is a news message there they announce to undone a few things.
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Wait, you did the @not_Queen wrong XD
Said this third time now, I despise the miss attack penalty, not being able to see blood, and how slow he is in his power vaulting AND the "increased" speed.
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Legion is fine.
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If you like m1 killers, or an boring game as survivor^^.
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Jeyers badly hates killers, he would probably like to verse rank 20 trappers all the time, not worth the effort of answering
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I don't like playing against trappers. The sound when a trap goes off is too loud.
And Legion is not a m1 killer, he has a skill like any other killers.
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It's because there was no counter to it. Chases were essentially on a timer.
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Ahm... When I am allowed to ask then... Why could some survivors then counter the Legion?
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Tell me the counters to a Legion exploiting his Deep Wound power. Last I checked there were none.
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I thought we talk here about the real pre patch Legion and not some exploiters.
Some survivors use also exploits, if they got aware of them. Do I generalize all survivors because of those exploiting survivors? Or do I demand nerfs for survivors because of those exploiters?
No!
There is no reason to punish every survivor, just because a minority of them exploits.
And so it is with the Legion.
If there is an exploit, fix the exploit. Don't change the playstyle for the Legion, or also survivors for it. -_-
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They did change Legion to help prevent the exploits and now ur arguing against it.
Missing a stab with frenzy is an extremely pathetic thing to happen. If you can't land it, you don't deserve to keep frenzy
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To fix the knife exploit, they could as example just grey out 1 knife addon, if a Legion had already choose a knife addon in his addon menu before. So it would be impossible to use both of them.
And I defend not the exploits, or the use of them. But I use common sense and I don't generalize people. And I will not start with such a behavior.
Also, the missing hit stun, takes a bit away, the feeling of a fast stabbing killer. And that is it what we talking about here: We miss to play a fast stabbing killer.
Besides that, you think, you will hit always a survivor?
Would you bet money on that?
Then let us start a very laggy game and let us look how it ends...
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Exactly. This, and the feeling to play a unique type of killer again.
For me, the Legion pre patch was just the archtype of an fast stabbing killer, how we know they from some movies.
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-1 Imo, a good killer design lets you reach over multiple ways your goal and doesn't force you in 1 way.
-2 That is not how the Legion is advertised. If you look how the Legion is advertised (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1C8_ASzSuM), you see there a fast stabbing killer that can really make fun. Not much of that is left anymore.
We seem to have here different opinions and that is ok for me. I can just tell you what was important for me and I will not start to play the game again until I see patch notes in steam that tell me, that the Legion is "back".
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Multi stabbing is really fun, rn, after finishing chain attack, hitting a marked survivor gives them distance and a long stun. Also something really bad? No mither counters Legion HARD. XD
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Ok. We get Devs wanted a killer who tried to counter all of those 5 points. He only does 2: Hook blocking and locker jukes and that is with his perks. Gen rushing is still not counterable. Co-op speed bonus is not necessary because when survivors seperate they finish 2-3 gens at the same time which is faster than co-op, and also deny Legion his power. Now your 3rd point is what Legion did before. The terror radius change made it so that moonwalkers can't anymore but now deep wounds is a joke. As soon as you go and look for other survivors, they will start mending right there on the spot or continue working on the generators, because it's not a threat. Freddy's power at least half their action speed and gives you aura reading AND they have to fail a skillcheck to stop that, which also means if they were on a generator all of their progress when they were in the dream state is regressed. And deep wounds... you just continue working on the gen till legion is away 32m. Feral frenzy is pointless now, all you do is get the first hit on the person and anybody dumb enough to stay nearby (32m tr) then chase normally. I can't see legion played seriously even with Monitor & Abuse. Even then Survivors are still fast enough to get away from the generator before Legion can catch up to them, and also loop at a T-wall for a few secs if necessary.
Im done with this legion. the least devs could do is revert missing in feral frenzy. it takes away the last possible opportunity for fun and sometimes even makes you lose a kill because of lag or autoaim. I'm pretty sure the penalty is for making survivors feel good when they happen to dodge because of a lag spike or autoaim. This feels like a scam we can't do anything about. I can just play survivor and run around like a clown if i wanted to.
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yippidy yey i get to stab people im balanced
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There is just not enough time to snowball the game with him when the survivors know his major weakness .... spreading out
Spreading out almost completely nullifys FF as
-deep wounds is pointless on your current target.
-his tracking ability is limited to TR and FF does not last long enough to catch a spread out team.
-you have to leave FF in order to down your target giving them a bigger gap/time to escape.
Things are made even worse by the terrible totem design, most of the time totems are gone in the first min or two and gen rush is brutal for killers who are need slow matches.
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Nein dude we just get to stab people and vault pallets so i think we are balanced. Oh and also not to mention we can't miss attacks cuz were the best players. :)
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@DudeDelicious so do you have video evidence to show us how the new legion should be played?
Or is it just theory?
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I am guaranteeing you he has gotten a few lucky matches as legion. That happens to all of us, but the majority of the games we get bullied. I mean, how do you expect to stop genrush as any killer other than nurse?
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Perks should not fix core-mechanic problems. Perks are to give a slight buff not a game changer. This is a game design problem that is hardly addressed.
However, as for legion he was nerfed into the ground after the exploits of going stabby and back-walking to a survivors dying body on the ground. There was no chance at how the mechanic worked simply because of that exploit of being able to down somebody. You hit somebody twice and just walk backwards count to what 15? and boom they were downed.
This was not 'skillful' play at all which shows the design of his power in general and this 'deep wounds' (Borrowed Time) crap was actually another broken mechanic that turned into the legion we have today.
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The fact that people are still complaining about Legion is quite funny not gonna lie. Love the fact that you thought Frank's Mix-tape was a balanced add on, literally hit M2,and just keep swinging until you hit the survivor twice, fatigue then repeat until the survivor was downed. You didn't even need Frank's Mix-tape for this. Legion had no counter play, and you say you watch Tru3Ta1ent but looks like you missed the clip of him juking a Legion 3 times and they didn't get punished for it. Legion now despite what people think. Is better then what they were before. They have the best tracking in the game, and are pretty good at stalling the game. I'm currently Rank 4 while mostly playing Legion and Wraith without NOeD, and I don't even use Ruin on Legion.
Legion is in a decent place currently, would there be things I would change about them? Of course. How ever at least he doesn't promote brain dead gameplay
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But that 1 survivor you're chasing ain't having as much fun as you. Old Legion had no counter play. Legion was changed to stop the exploiting and to stop the absolute brain dead play style he had.
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I did watch tru3ta1ent's clip against a susie on a pallet. I was rank 4 too with legion. I am saying his deep wounds suck as it is the same thing as borrowed time, and that he is so slow he can get looped at a t wall and can't reach people in time. Honestly that susie in the clip was terrible. She was probably not careful about it since she knew she wouldn't get a penalty for it, and therefore spammed m1 around. I want the miss penalty removed because it was fun to hit at the air, and most of us aren't nooby like that susie and miss hits on our own. Besides there are other reasons why good legion players would miss unintentionally.
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amazing logic, complaining about current legions equals everyone wanting old broken legion.
Did you study at Harvard?
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Okay great no more downing in feral frenzy i honestly dont even care. I just want the legion miss penalty removed, it would feel really good to miss and keep attacking again. THe power can't even down so why add it??
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All the powerful builds you named previously still had some form of counter play, little bit less for OmegaLUL Nurse. But Perma Myers can still be looped, same goes for Billy and Huntress. Mint Rag Hag with Make Your Choice gets absolutely destroyed with a flashlight. Frank's Mix-tape Legion? Absolutely no counter play. Besides maybe gen rushing, which can be said for ANY KILLER. Once Legion found that survivor all that survivor could do is attempt to stall that chase as long as possible, they knew they we're going down no matter what they did. And then there was moon walking Legion, which was even worst. As you tagged a survivor with Deep Wound and followed them until they reached a certain point for you to enter Frenzy and down them.
At least now he gets punished for swinging like a mad lad.
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Make vid with couple of matches, I think a lot of ppl would like to see it, myself included.
Just want to mention that I managed to repair full generator in DW status once, when Legion was stab-stabby ppl around me and chasing them around Killer shack. He couldn't see me with instinct since I had DW already. DW is not a big threat anymore, you can be in DW status hell of a long time.
Does it apply some stall? Yes, it does, but same as Doctor's T3 Madness - it is just insignificant against good survivors. But apart from Doctor's T3, all you need is just hold M1, and you dont need to start anew if you was interrupted or failed skill check.
I'm totally agree with TS, that Legion in it's current state is M1 Killer which rather use M1 than M2, cause he got punished for using his power apart from rare cases when you know someone else is around. And again, survivor need to be only 10 meters away to completely outrun FF duration, running at straight line.
FF fatique should not be longer than wiping after M1 attack at least.
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"punished for stabbing like a mad lad" power cant even down and he is a killer after all. nurse gets fatigue bc she is lethal. dont you see they are overkill on legion because survivors asked so
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I’d also like to say that, as far as I’ve seen, no one from BHVR has taken the time to actually comment on a Legion post...Isn’t that just a tad bit odd?
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Huntress requires skill in aiming, so theres that. Also if you run in a straight line you're making the job a lot easier for her. You can crouch behind most loops where The Huntress cannot hit you over.
Unlimited Tier 3 Myers can indeed still be looped, and you can make him waste a bunch of time. More time that he took to actually get to Tier 3. Which at high ranks by the time you get to Tier 3, 2 or 3 gens are already completed. Keep in mind while you're keeping a killer which is still an M1 killer that just has an insta down. 3 other survivors are most likely doing gens.
Also since when does Billy burn through pallets? If Survivors are dumb and they throw down every single pallet they see then maybe, but a smart survivor wouldn't just throw down pallets all willy nilly.
Frank's Mix-tape may not have been as powerful. But if you're on the survivor side you cannot tell me that it was fun to go against. It doesn't matter how good you are as a survivor. They will catch you. It might of taken time, but they will catch you. When you play at Brown, Yellow or even Green ranks. If you're an experienced survivor you can distinguish the previously mentioned rank killers from a purple or red rank killer. So a bad player won't utilize Perma Michael, Insta Huntress or Insta Saw Billy nearly as well as a player with hundreds or even thousands of hours. But Legion? They could be awful at the game and still down you. There was no skill in Legion and NO COUNTER PLAY!!! THATS THE BIG THING!!! COUNTER PLAY!!! Once a chase has started a survivor has NO TOOLS TO GET AWAY.
All previous mentioned killers, even forcing them to break a pallet could be enough to make them lose you. Legion? They just vault the pallet. If you juke them and they miss? They didn't get punished. Nurse if she blinks she would get punished by being fatigued at least, Huntress gets punished by missing 1 of her 3 hatchets (if she has insta down)
TL;DR: Legion had no counter play.
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I would love to provide footage with a few matches but my current PC would not be able to handle it. I already run the game at around 20 fps. I do in fact run the game at the lowest possible settings, and trust me it isn't easy. (1.9k hours btw)
I also agree the fact the FF fatigue is longer than blade wipe is quite stupid. What I think they should of down is make it the same duration with the old animation that Legion had during PTB. Once he hit a survivor that was already in DW.
(I guess if you want proof you can try to catch me playing a game and spectate through steam, which will indeed lower my fps even more)
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The devs won't listen most likely, they disregard most feedback and rely too much on statistics from the lower ranks, since most of them are low rank players
They seriously need to stop balancing the game around bad players and start listening to the more experienced ones
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Actually, the nerf depends on how you want to look at it. You can choose to say that devs are scared to make a weaker but easier nurse, or you can say EVERY part of the "rework" was necessary. I look at it both ways, because i do not care if i lose. My biggest issue is the miss penalty. It's very unnecessary and i am a good legion player; i do not miss my hits 99% of the time. Sometimes i just want to miss and have fun but the fatigue is just there to f you up. Sometimes autoaim or lag messes it up for you and you lose all pressure. For the speed; i don't care. If they don't want me chaining hits and playing Legion they want him to be played, i will tunnel that one person and now it is a matter of boring and weak killer.
Deep wounds is a whole another topic of it's own because it is the same thing as borrowed time.
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legion would be fine if they increased his vaulting speed
the problem with pre-rework legion isn't even limited to moonwalking, exploiting or using frank's mixtape. the character was broken at its core. in a chase, a survivor had no option but to repeatedly get hit until they went down while the legion ignored pallets and windows. should a survivor eventually go down in a chase? sure, but the killer has to earn it, and legion did not earn it. it was just m2 until the survivor went down. this was extremely unhealthy for the game and had to change
current legion is not only more efficient at downing people (getting a FF hit and then chasing with 115 movement speed typically results in faster downs than hitting people in FF multiple times was before the rework) but doesn't break the game. that's not to say legion shouldn't be tweaked (the aforementioned vaulting speed increase would go a long way, and many of his addons need to be looked at), but fundamentally, legion is both a stronger killer and in a much better place in its current incarnation
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old vault speed back when
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Atleast buff his ms and old vault speed back he would be chaining hits much more now. Removing miss penalty is also really cool with me, it'd be much more entertaining, besides it is unnecessary.
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no, there was no counterplay
"pallet stuns" aren't counterplay because legion would just respect the pallet and avoid the stun, then vault over it
there was no strat to get away from legion. they ignored every mechanic in the game that survivors could use to make distance. if a legion wanted to down you, they would down you, and nothing you did, no matter how good of a player you were, made any difference. that is fundamentally horrible killer design, no matter how much you enjoyed doing it when it was a thing
i realize that people are determined to view pre-rework legion with rose-tinted glasses and nothing will convince them of how unhealthy it was for the game so i'm probably just wasting my time, but legion absolutely had to change, and for the most part the changes were good
i'm lukewarm about removing the miss penalty - FF is a less broken mechanic now so i wouldn't necessarily hate it if legion was at least punished less for missing, but i still have PTSD of spinning legions to make them whiff twice and still getting hit before their power runs out because they had unrelenting 10. you shouldn't be able to just swing everywhere, but i'd be okay if the penalty for missing was at least reduced
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