Where did all The Nurse hate come from?
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I can't find anyone who has said she 'ignores mechanics'. It's just that when someone argues that she does 'ignore mechanics' they phrase it as 'she ignores all survivor mechanics' or 'she ignores all escape/evasion mechanics' and there are several problems with this. She does not ignore all means survivors have to evade at all; they are in fact talking about a narrow range of mechanics which survivors prefer and have persistently lobbied for as their primary playstyle. They have others which they have neglected and have to a degree damaged by insisting that the devs support their preferred playstyle.
The Nurse circumvents the features she is designed to, because originally survivors were expected to respond by using the plentiful alternatives, not simply double-down on their strategy of demanding the game be changed to fit how they want to play it.
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Tryhards have developed a sense of entitlement where they feel that mastering looping should absolve them of virtually all risk in the game. Nurse and Spirit can break this condition, so rather than learn how to counter them, they take their frail egos and insist that the issue is Nurse being unfair, as they are already perfect.
Reworking Nurse would be a horrendous mistake. A waste of resources to remove the most competitive Killer and cater to the most toxic players. A bad player will still be bad with Nurse, even if they cover more ground, and a good player can still be mindgamed.
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What about freddy hes easy beat as is but one the ptb is done hes gonna make ruin seem like a joke with how fast he can win
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in total, you took out from my head what I could not take out xD ty, my thoughts, imo nurse was balanced when they are infinites, instant 5 second ds without obsession, borrowed time on both survivor with 45 sec timer, recovery exhaustion, double pallets, always fast vault, no window blocker, sprint burst/balance landing combo ect. but in this 3 years survivors got thousands nerf, in current state she's not really balanced or her addons i think
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in total, you took out from my head what I could not take out xD ty, my thoughts, imo nurse was balanced when they are infinites, instant 5 second ds without obsession, borrowed time on both survivor with 45 sec timer, recovery exhaustion, double pallets, always fast vault, no window blocker, sprint burst/balance landing combo ect. but in this 3 years survivors got thousands nerf, in current state she's not really balanced or her addons i think
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Just git gud already. Omegablink is fine
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Now this is the funniest thing I have heard all year.
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What's even more funny is how there are 14+ killers, and only 3 (nurse, Billy, spirit) to 5 (hag & huntress) are red rank threats. Crazy right?
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being a bad player and being a good nurse aren't mutually exclusive because nurse doesn't play dead by daylight
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Nurse doesn't put up with your ######### XD! Avoids walls, loops, general movement. Distance of floors.
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Any killer ‘can’ be a red rank threat. Good survivors threat is completely different though.
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you're right, nurse doesn't put up with any of the mechanics of the game because she breaks it
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You pallet stunned me? You mean I can still blink and attack right? Screw your stun logic.
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yes, screw the whole game i say as i select nurse for the 35th killer game in a row
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Whether I disagree with you or agree with you the sad matter is no matter how much of a good point you make nothing will happen I believe the devs are currently scared of an outrage if she was touched.
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What kind of "borking of the killer's POV are you talking about here?
I havent been around during those early days, so I am curious.
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@ABannedCat I think he means the FOV nerf killers received when you could see survivors inside lockers.
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It could be, but the devs said when they finally addressed it that it was unintentional but had no plans to change it. It was a consequence of the graphic engine overhaul in Patch 1.4: https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/PatchNotes1.4.0
It wasn't an alteration to FoV, but to Pov: the killer head-cam has been literally too far forwards since then.
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The nurse is so hated because its the only killer where survivor dont have their faith in their hands, but only the killer itself. You can loop a normal killer, and if you play perfect (and the killer does too) you will gain time, until you will run out of good loops / pallets.
This is not the case with the nurse. A perfect nurse (playing vs a perfect surivor) will just get the survivor within seconds, no matter what he is doing. Breaking line of sight or hiding is only in theory "counterplay". It all rely on how good the nurse is, and nowadays, nurse players are getting better.
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@xEa please explain to me. How you get better at a straight line? There is no 'good' nurse players. There are good killers. If you are a good killer you are a good nurse. Nurse simply has easy mechanics it is just muscle to distance memory. That isn't skill by any means.
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playing nurse has nothing to do with playing killer
you can spend a long time playing just nurse and mastering her, and then proceed to be terrible with every other killer in the game. this is how far divorced she is from how this game is played
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Playing the Nurse was playing a killer, then knee-jerk nerfs were demanded that made her impossible to play like a normal killer. All she had to do to become what she is, is stand still as the game was made more and more 'fun' for survivors, in accordance with their own feedback that favoured one specific playstyle over any alternatives.
What happened to her initially was because people who thought they knew better couldn't imagine anyone developing a new way of playing a character. They couldn't imagine it because they themselves have never been forced into that situation, which was the design intent of the Nurse to begin with before the knee-jerk uber-nerfing.
They don't know what they were asking for, they don't know what they want and the devs must stop listening to them.
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honestly i stopped reading when you said that nurse not moving at 115 ms and having 3 blinks constitutes a "knee-jerk nerf"
i want whatever you're currently smoking because it has to be good
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Yikes. Harsh.
So sad it's true.
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It's called facts and reasoned argument and you can't smoke them; you have to swallow the large bitter pills.
No explanation was ever offered, by the devs or anyone, for what the purpose of the changes were. She never moved at '115 ms', you seem to have confused the move-speed as a percentage with the m/s or metres per second, which is 4.0 m/s for a running survivor and is attributed as the base 100% move-speed for the game. The Nurse now moves at 3.85 m/s which is 96.25% of base.
This effectively means that the nerf was to her being able to succeed at ANY chase. A survivor can run in a straight line and win the chase unless the Nurse uses blink, so she is forced to. It's literally impossible for her to be played as any other killer. Killers did not get to choose that; that was forced on us by people who never listen and want the game to be ruled entirely by double-standards.
We know the nerfs were knee-jerk because the achievement was not changed in conjunction and neither were her addons. It actually became impossible to use the very rare addon(Kavanagh's Last Breath) that improves chain-blinking because it still removes a blink token, meaning you couldn't chain-blink at all and now needed to equip another addon to give extra blinks. The problem there is all those addons except for Fragile Wheeze reduce the blink distance, defeating the point of using them with KLB. These changes were not thought out, at all.
It was done to appease a mob who can't make their case on an even playing-field or even stack up with any internal logic.
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Nurse also did not originally move at the base move-speed for killers(4.6 m/s or 115%).
The official wiki's history did not record move-speeds at the time, but from memory it was 4.2 m/s(105% base-speed) as there was discussion of how ridiculous it was that a survivor with Hope could never be caught without having to use blinking.
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just because it takes a longer time to master a killer it doesnt justify that you dominate every game
but ppl dont get this
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115 ms means 115% ms, obviously
the rest of your post isn't even worth addressing. some of the worst nurse takes i've ever read
the fact that her base kit used to be worse than she is with one of her most unbalanced addon setups was an underestimation of her power upon release, and the fact that you call it knee-jerk just because the addons weren't adjusted accordingly is some serious question mark #########
i seriously do not understand why somebody who is partisan towards killers by their own admission comments so authoritatively on any balance discussion. do you honestly think any of what you contribute holds up when your perspective on this game is so slanted?
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Well she never moved at that '115% move-speed'. Unlike your response, I can actually define what your bad Nurse takes are and don't simply use spout stuff out to be insulting. I've explained exactly what was left wrong with her unadjusted addons following the nerf and how this indicates that the changes were not well-considered before being made. An addon which improves chain-blink whilst removing by default the ability to chain-blink was a big warning sign for the lack of joined-up-thinking going on.
Her power was not 'understimated', she did exactly what she was designed to but the devs would not commit to changing survivors exploitative playstyle and instead started to appease it.
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i haven't spouted anything to be insulting. all i'm doing is use what you've given me
i didn't play back then, so i don't know what nurse's original base movespeed was, but i know it was considerably closer to the normal m1 killer movespeed. i've heard it was 115% from people who did play back then, though, but it's pretty irrelevant either way
nurse's addons needed to be reworked a long time ago, both because a bunch of them are useless as well as several of them being far too strong and stacking when they shouldn't. nurse's addons being poorly adjusted does not mean that the nerf was knee-jerk, that's a connection that you are making yourself because you believe that the dominant survivor playstyle is "exploitative" and a whole separate killer is needed to prevent it. this is your (self-admitted) killer partisan at work, not anything substantial
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Exactly instead of looking up how to play against her they instead scream for nerfs because lols why learn anything remotely challenging.
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Oh really? How is she so divorced from the game? Because she isn't loopable? Or is it because she's one of the few killers you have to actually be afraid of. As far as I know, most of the killers the survivors in red ranks runs up to the killer and begs to be chased. Without nurse, it wouldn't even be a horror game for most people.
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nobody's afraid of nurse, people are just bored of her
i like that you, of all people, somebody who literally only plays nurse, took issue with that post
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Then comes the god survivors on discord and your theory is flushed down the toilet.
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You cannot master a straight line.
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You characterising my posts as 'some of the worst Nurse takes' you have ever-read is meant to be insulting; you didn't even attempt to describe what you found to be wrong with them. The point, the only purpose, was to be personally abusive.
Nurse's addons were not 'poorly adjusted'; they were completely unchanged despite the significance of the alterations made to her base stats. Even the achievement for making a gen-grab at the end of three blinks(her original default) was unchanged, despite it being one of the most difficult single-feat type achievements in the game, it now required addons.
The survivor playstyle being exploitative is not me stating my opinion; I'm applying standards that exist independently of myself, not least the devs own stated design-intent for the Nurse when they started acknowledging that looping was a problem rather than insisting it 'took great skill' as they originally maintained.
When defining what an exploit is, I'd like to be consistent and apply a standard. I wish others would do the same. That's why I am a killer-partisan, though I'm still not sure you understand what that means.
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Smart survivors don't run in a straight line.
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Don't worry the second blink got you there! :)
No, in reality I meant aiming her specifically. You do not master a straight line. Now huntress hatchets those throw in a straight line at a moving target. With no rebound at any point.
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Nerfing a viable killer means you'll have one less killer in red ranks, which is a lot more boring imo!
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i fully understand what being a killer partisan is; i'd call you biased, but since you yourself have admitted that you can't be biased if you willingly acknowledge said bias, partisan makes far more sense
both serve the same purpose, however, in underlining that you are unable to approach discussions regarding balance with any, well, balanced perspective, and pretending that calling looping an exploit adheres to some definition-based consistency instead of it just being empirically nonsensical as the devs entirely intend for it to remain in the game betrays that partisan and its impact on whatever you contribute in any of these threads. looping is being resourceful; survivors have limited resources with which to keep distance from a killer who is actively chasing them, and looping is what lets them use these resources as efficiently as possible. it rose out of the chase mechanics that this game was founded on, and the game has been balanced around it from the beginning; the worst infinites are gone, bloodlust has been added, and pallet counts have been drastically reduced. all signs point towards it not being an exploit, and continuing to insist that it is, in 2019, is a combination of your own inability to see its strategic merit, on top of understanding how to counter it, and an unwillingness to acknowledge that the people who made the game intend for it to exist
saying that your nurse takes are bad isn't abusive, it's a statement, which i then followed with an explanation as to why they are bad. if i were only here to insult you, i wouldn't bother going in-depth explaining mechanics to somebody who has purportedly been playing this game for several years, but i'm certainly not going to pretend like what you're saying is reasonable at all, and i don't have to. your views on the nurse are completely nuts to me, and i'm going to tell you as much, but i'll do you the courtesy of explaining why i think this. there's no need to play the victim and pretend that i didn't elaborate on why your opinions on the nurse are bad
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She is viable for all the wrong reasons. Look at spirit she has mind-game potential. Nurse does not. "Break LOS" that only works for so long. You can never fully keep a boundary between yous two. Billy, Spirit, Huntress, and on occasion Hag can all be halted by a pallet. Nurse cannot.
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Nothing wrong being different. She forces a slightly different playstyle and that is to be respected and embraced, not ridiculed. If the devs didn't want survivors to ever be stealthy then there wouldn't be any stealth perks! If she still spots you, you can revert to the juking and breaking LOS. Not every killer needs to make a survivor "feel safe" just because they are camping a pallet.
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I love Nurse tbh, I would like to play with her but I'm so bad lol
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You haven't been listening, that's all. People have had an issue with Nurse for a while and have only gotten more vocal recently. That isn't to say people weren't saying anything before, but people are realizing they're not alone in their dislike towards how unfair Nurse add-ons are. The only Nurses I win against are boosted ones and this is the experience of many, especially when they have multiple blinks or longer blinks. Many things don't work on her, too. She's very very buggy and strips survivor's of all defenses, but stealth and stealth is really weak in this game. There's perks to see to that.
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Looping is an exploit because it makes use of a difference in the collision-capsule that the devs were never even aware of and failed to answer simple questions about in a livestream which is one of those removed from the archive. The devs have previously defined an exploit by the use of a collision-capsule in a way that was not intended; when they determined face-camping to be an exploit. They nor anyone else could explain why the standard applied to killers but not survivors: neither for looping or for body-blocking. The devs later altered the standard to mean using the capsule to hold the game hostage, something which face-camping also wasn't doing.
Their inability to keep to consistent standards has been a concern of mine and they have responded by simply removing the record of it so they can't be reliably questioned. Their first defence of looping was that 'it took great skill' among other statements that made it clear they weren't entirely sure what it even was. The same was true when pallet-looping replaced infinites and survivors were playing dumb by saying 'just break the pallet'. There is no such 'in-depth' explanation of the game mechanics from you; you don't even care to get basic facts right first, but they would take a whole new thread to rebut(such as the nonsense that pallet numbers have 'drastically reduced'). The chase mechanics as you know them were not how the game was played on release, but evolved out of the refusal of survivors to adapt. They had made complaining to the devs for changes part of their meta. What the devs intend is meaningless unless they are consistent.
Being partisan means I can compensate for my distorted view-point. You are not partisan because you are able to simultaneously acknowledge you weren't even playing the game at the time whilst maintaining virtual certainty that I am wrong about every relevant fact. These are two mutually-exclusive positions to be in. If you were a partisan of the facts, you would see it. You won't see it because being a partisan of the facts means inevitably being a killer-partisan.
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I also think base nurse is fine, but I just got so tire of hearing the same arguement over and over. I wish Dev will just nerf nurse to the ground , so that people can finally shut up about it and watch dbd slowly dead a painful death. Nah, jk.
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i'm convinced you're a troll at this point, but i'll bite: what collision-capsule are you talking about?
nothing i said in my previous post was incorrect, so i have no idea which basic facts i'm getting wrong because, like every other post you've made, it's chalk full of vague platitudes and entirely devoid of substance. i explained what looping is to you, which you then sidestepped. i know what the game was upon release (i know what the game was like in the alpha, even), despite not playing it at the time. i'm an example of somebody who can maintain an understanding of the game despite not having played it through its lifespan, and you are somebody who apparently has played through its lifespan and has still managed to maintain such a crooked understanding of it
being partisan means your point of view is distorted; it has nothing to do with whether or not you can compensate for it. i don't need to have played the game in order to remain informed about what it was like two or even three years ago, i just need to know how it functioned and how it's changed since then, and it's a fallacy to assume i'm incorrect just because i happened to not be playing this game in 2016, all the while not pointing out any specifics. the game, fundamentally, hasn't changed all that much, things have just been adjusted (in both minor and major ways) in order to account for the direction the game has gone in as people learned how to play it. adapting has nothing to do with it; people dictate the meta by understanding what works, and the game is balanced around it. this is true of every game, not just dead by daylight. it has always been a game of killer finds survivor - killer chases survivor - survivor uses whatever mechanics are necessary in order to avoid going down. did the devs originally intend for survivors to use every pallet to its fullest potential before dropping them and wasting the killer's time? no, but survivors figured out that this was the smartest way to play and did that for them. if looping was an exploit, it would have been removed a long time ago, but now you have the devs using the term in live streams
the mental acrobatics you'd need to perform in order to maintain your position on this game is staggering honestly, but the "looping is an exploit" crowd has always been astonishing
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I think what they're referring to is the fact that there is a slight difference in collision size for killers & survivors. If I'm not mistaken, survivors have a 0.4 meter collision while killers have a 0.5 meter collision? I don't fully remember the numbers however this difference is also what allows survivors to slip through spots that the killer wouldn't be able to pass which would actually be an exploit unlike looping which is just playing the game.
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If you are able to maintain that you do not know what I am talking about(regarding teh collision-capsule and other things) because you were not present when these issues were prevalent in the game and discussions of at the time, whilst simultaneously dismissing anything that I said: that's a mutually-exclusive set stances. You believe several impossible things that can't co-exist; you can't be persuaded by anything externally.
I resist bias by being partisan; you're the opposite in that you project things onto others whilst carefully avoiding any accidental introspection. Everyones views are distorted, even yours(especially even); I'm just the guy who acknowledges it and works within those limitations.
All I need to do to maintain my positions is to be consistent. Those I argue against can only maintain theirs by your method: where nothing means anything and consistency is just bias.
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you're refusing to explain this mechanic that somehow turns looping into an exploit; i'm contending that it's some bullshit that doesn't matter at all. you haven't managed to explain to me how looping is anything other than resource conservation, nor have you addressed that the devs both acknowledge and accept its existence in public livestreams. you conveniently sidestep everything brought up in order to continue posting vacuous rhetoric that you then refuse to elaborate on, even when prompted by the person you're talking to
the only person projecting here is the one who admits to being partisan and then asserts that everyone else is just as biased as he is, and that he's just the only one being honest about it. i'd retort by saying a lot of people care about the balance experienced by both killers and survivors, and that this is reflected in people's responses both to this thread and to others. the fact that you cannot do this after playing this game for as long as you purport to (at least since the introduction of the nurse) is a personal issue, not something you can posit everyone also experiences on either end of the spectrum. admitting that one is partisan doesn't nullify the effects that said partisan has on their related positions, and that can be very easily observed by reading any post you make in any thread
the only consistent thing about you is your ability to consistently dodge points, which is emblematic of being an online troll, so i'm going to stop responding to your posts now
Post edited by miaasma on3
