Bamboozle needs a longer timer, here's why
On the long window loops, the time frame is not enough to keep it closed until the looping Survivor gets back to it and there's another reason that I observe happening more and more often.
As the Clown especially, Survivors expect you to have Bamboozle, so they will slightly alter the path to another nearby loop, loop that, then they go back to the original loop which will be open again.
Comments
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I agree it's not just about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh17g7TIhU0&t=429s
On this spot Bamboozle does not work and it gives enough time for the survivor to vault back, if the Killer does not have bloodlust this spot literally turns into an infinite, especially vs Huntress who's slow0 -
That's the thing with a lot of killer perks, there's usually some kind of work around if they're especially powerful. I wish that courtesy extended both ways V_V
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Longer timer or 2 windows to block.
Those double window spots are really annoying af.
Red barn for example.1 -
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.
*edited, got distracted while writing.
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@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
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@DocOctober said:
On the long window loops, the time frame is not enough to keep it closed until the looping Survivor gets back to it and there's another reason that I observe happening more and more often.As the Clown especially, Survivors expect you to have Bamboozle, so they will slightly alter the path to another nearby loop, loop that, then they go back to the original loop which will be open again.
And when I said that Bamboozle needs a longer timer AND be able to block 2 windows at the same time, the only responds I got were - "but muh infinities"
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@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
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@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
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Even better: no timer at all. You block ONE window from the whole map, until you vault another one. I don't feel it's "overpowered" since you waste a whole perk slot for that.
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@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
Cough Lery's cough Gideons.
Lets see your barn map with nurse, your barn map with doctor, your barn map with the shape. You're complaining about 1 killer perk not making you godlike every time.
Now wheres @DocOctober with his meme?
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@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
Cough Lery's cough Gideons.
Lets see your barn map with nurse, your barn map with doctor, your barn map with the shape. You're complaining about 1 killer perk not making you godlike every time.
Now wheres @DocOctober with his meme?
Fractured Cowshed is a nightmare for Killers, not sure what you're on about and Léry's tends to be a pain in the ass as well.
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Maps that favor -nobody- are what most killer mains are asking for. Nobody is telling the developers to make the maps killer-sided at all, we just want a fair chance on all of them. That's it. I'm gonna bold this next part for any survivor mains out there, just because I'm not sure how many of you are aware of how this game is designed:
I do not wish to beat you because you or your team made mistakes that I could then punish. I want to beat you by outplaying you and earn my merit that way. As Dead by Daylight stands, if you play a perfect game, know your loops/maps, and have optimal generator rotation, I am prevented, via game design, from doing anything to you as a killer. My skill is not factored into our encounter, only your skill and that of your team is taken into consideration. As a survivor, you control the flow of the entire game, and I (and all killer mains no matter how 'skilled' they are) cannot challenge your skill with my own due to the limitations presented by the kit of the killer I'm playing (exception: nurse is the one killer with a skill cap high enough to challenge and even beat good survivors on the odd occasion; plot twist, most survivors don't like the nurse.
Your resources are too vast, your perks too powerful, and most maps are highly in your favor. This isn't a cry born of incompetence, as I've both beaten and been beaten by very skilled survivors before. But every victory I've earned is bittersweet at best. Why? They made mistakes, and I could only react to those mistakes because they were present to begin with. I can never challenge a survivor who is playing optimally as any non-nurse killer in this game and come out on top, because it's not a matter of 'my skill vs his'. I am relying on him to mess up that loop, drop the pallet late, or get mind gamed on that jungle gym. I'm sick of playing a reactive role and would much prefer being proactive as the killer; the single entity needs to be powerful to compensate for being outnumbered four to one.
TLDR: Killers want balanced maps that favor neither side, and as for myself: I want to beat survivors who are playing optimally when I am doing the same. If both sides are of the same general level of skill, I want it to be a good match, not a one-sided rodeo where all four survivors mirror the skill of one another making any chase pointless.
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@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
Cough Lery's cough Gideons.
Lets see your barn map with nurse, your barn map with doctor, your barn map with the shape. You're complaining about 1 killer perk not making you godlike every time.
Now wheres @DocOctober with his meme?
Yeah, Lery's is a god-sent map for Nurse, Billy, Trapper or any killer that does not counter looping.
the Game is good only for Nurse (sometimes) and Doc.Now tell me what do you think about Palletheaven, Swamp maps, Farm maps?
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@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
Cough Lery's cough Gideons.
Lets see your barn map with nurse, your barn map with doctor, your barn map with the shape. You're complaining about 1 killer perk not making you godlike every time.
Now wheres @DocOctober with his meme?
Yeah, Lery's is a god-sent map for Nurse, Billy, Trapper or any killer that does not counter looping.
the Game is good only for Nurse (sometimes) and Doc.Now tell me what do you think about Palletheaven, Swamp maps, Farm maps?
Trapper main so Swamp I love, Farm pig is evil, doc with good perks and items is just deadly. It all boils down to rng, you're not going to get the map you want with the killer you want every time. I've been running into god tier nurses, Huntresses, Doctors, Shapes, even some good Hag and Freddy's getting 4 sacs lately.
Again you either adapt or complain about it endlessly. The good killers adapt and if they can't get someone looping that window they play smart and go after someone else. If you're chasing that one survivor endlessly in a known no win area that's your own fault, the the game map design layout.
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@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
So when the map benefits you the designers a genius right?
Could you tell me which map benefits the killers so much?
Cough Lery's cough Gideons.
Lets see your barn map with nurse, your barn map with doctor, your barn map with the shape. You're complaining about 1 killer perk not making you godlike every time.
Now wheres @DocOctober with his meme?
Yeah, Lery's is a god-sent map for Nurse, Billy, Trapper or any killer that does not counter looping.
the Game is good only for Nurse (sometimes) and Doc.Now tell me what do you think about Palletheaven, Swamp maps, Farm maps?
The Game is good for the Huntress as well imo. Only problem is lockers sometimes. Depending on where you are.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
Bamboozle needs to be a base mechanic and not a perk.For the clown may'be but for others not so much, but then if you make it a base mechanic then you'd better adjust other things as well and finally fix Nurse. Better yet just delete nurse and then adjust other killers accordingly. :pirate:
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@powerbats said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
Bamboozle needs to be a base mechanic and not a perk.For the clown may'be but for others not so much, but then if you make it a base mechanic then you'd better adjust other things as well and finally fix Nurse. Better yet just delete nurse and then adjust other killers accordingly. :pirate:
Make Bamboozle do something else. Done. I don't think anyone would really mind. The devs ######### map designer can let out a sigh of relief that a bandaid fix will solve his terrible map-making skills.
While some maps do need work for sure, to call them a ######### map designer is just wrong. When they go back fro the balance update perhaps that's one of the things they can fix.
Best way to fix it is to use the entity blocking mechanism but as follows.
Each time a particular survivor goes through a window the next closest window ie barn type that closest window also gets credited as if that particular survivor had gone through it. So if it's 3 in quick succession well then both windows get the timer penalty attached but only for that particular survivor.
That'd cut down on a lot of the chain barn looping type stuff or you could make it so that killers in general have a faster vaulting mechanic but again only for that particular survivor and a chase increase for x seconds once wind y ,z are blocked.
Now you could make the window start growing entity vines so to speak which get larger and tighter filling in the gaps that the survivor starts getting slowed. You'd definitely discourage repeated window loopings of the same area while also letting the survivor know it's time to go someplace else.
IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE THE RED BUTTON.
Red Button :Killer special one time use per survivor ability.
When getting endlessly looped by a survivor through the same or pair of same windows press the Red Button.
Pressing the Red Button immediately causes the entity to grab the survivor and take them to it's room and b slap them repeatedly until it sinks in they've been bad.
The entity then gives them 1 final mega b slap and sends them back to the whiny killer where they beg for forgiveness and to be sacrificed.
Conclusion, the killer using the red button has to get their big boy or girl pants on and act like a less whiny killer.
The End.
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@Hillbilly420 Well then I've got the perfect solution, get schooling in that field and go to work for them and make better maps. You make better maps, and everyone else can say yes you were right.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@powerbats said:
@Hillbilly420 Well then I've got the perfect solution, get schooling in that field and go to work for them and make better maps. You make better maps, and everyone else can say yes you were right.Dude, you're that guy saying "Oh, you don't like the roads go build your own!"
No, I'm the one saying that you think it's crappy without knowing why it's possibly crappy. So go to school if you don't have the knowledge and got o work for them. Once you do that you can either try and improve it using the current spaghetti code or design new maps with new code.
You want to do nothing but complain about it but offer no solutions nor are willing to fix anything that's wrong. It's really easy to criticize hiding behind your keyboard, but it's another thing entirely to actually do something about it.
In all seriousness get the skills and improve upon it and or learn why the maps are designed how they are.
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@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.It's on the perk when Bamboozle doesn't work on that loop spot I mentioned in Groaning Store-House. This is ######### on how the perk doesn't work and survivors are still able to loop through it. If it is 18 seconds it would be fixed, 16 is not enough. and If if you are playing Huntress it becomes an Infinite, you will constantly lose bloodlust meaning you will never be able to catch survivors even if you have Bamboozle
if the RNG doesn't block that particular window it's on the map design not on the player, you have to be pretty ignorant and biased
Fractual Cowshed, the farmhouse loops is fine, cuz you will still be able to stop the loop with Bamboozle and catch up to the survivor eventually, you can't in the Groaning Storehouse map, making the perk almost useless
Please don't bring the argument, you are not meant to chase a survivor when he's in that loop spot, sure then let's bring all infinite back
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@Someissues said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.It's on the perk when Bamboozle doesn't work on that loop spot I mentioned in Groaning Store-House. This is ######### on how the perk doesn't work and survivors are still able to loop through it. If it is 18 seconds it would be fixed, 16 is not enough. and If if you are playing Huntress it becomes an Infinite, you will constantly lose bloodlust meaning you will never be able to catch survivors even if you have Bamboozle
if the RNG doesn't block that particular window it's on the map design not on the player, you have to be pretty ignorant and biased
Fractual Cowshed, the farmhouse loops is fine, cuz you will still be able to stop the loop with Bamboozle and catch up to the survivor eventually, you can't in the Groaning Storehouse map, making the perk almost useless
Please don't bring the argument, you are not meant to chase a survivor when he's in that loop spot, sure then let's bring all infinite back
Note: I'm not saying there shouldn't be a fix but the following pokes some holes here.
By that logic since camping is fine looping that window is fine as well. You can't have it both ways and have everything work in your favour all the time. It's all rng and sometimes you get the better rng and the survivors don't and vice versa.
Some of the Lery's maps have no windows at all in some rooms and are basically dead ends, other time they're not. The survivors never know, same for other maps. Gideon,s sometimes gens are in great places and other times dead ends with no place to go anywhere if killer is close.
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@powerbats said:
By that logic since camping is fine looping that window is fine as well. You can't have it both ways and have everything work in your favour all the time. It's all rng and sometimes you get the better rng and the survivors don't and vice versa.
Some of the Lery's maps have no windows at all in some rooms and are basically dead ends, other time they're not. The survivors never know, same for other maps. Gideon,s sometimes gens are in great places and other times dead ends with no place to go anywhere if killer is close.
Yes my bad for saying that, it does needs some tweak however, Bamboozle does not need a buff but that section of the map needs some tweaking. So far it's only that spot that has this issue where Bamboozle can be made useless depending on the RNG block of windows, the one where you can't fast vault is fine, but the other one where you can fast vault provided there's two windows is not, also comment waiting for approval...
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@Hillbilly420 said:
All I see in this pile of nonsense is mental gymnastics.
So in other words you're admitting you can't refute my argument and know any insult, Straw Man, Red Herring or other logical fallacy will fall flat on it's face. You've proven beyond a doubt that you're nothing but a complainer that loves to whine about things but isn't willing to do anything constructive about them.
When you're ready to do something constructive the adults here will be waiting.
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@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
The map designers for BHVR do one of the worst jobs I've ever seen in my entire life.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
There's only one guy who makes the maps. Personally, I think they should hire a new guy.
https://www.bhvr.com/job-opportunities/
There's the job listings now someone just needs to apply now to make better maps.
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Maybe Dead By Daylight wasn’t a game the developers thought people would min/max the crap out of...
I mean, I remember back when friends would play each others’ house and MAYBE there’s that one kid who’s really good. But if he was being a douche or just making things overly unfun; You better believe he/she was out the door!1 -
I just feel like a killer's strength shouldn't be decided on the map lay out to be honest but I do feel like certain maps should always favor survivors in stealth. For example, Nurse is extremely more harder to play on Coldwind Farm and indoor maps (except the game map) but other open maps, Nurse is rather easy (If you took the time into learning her). Overall, at tops, a survivor should be able to loop a killer for a maximum of 1 minute, I think that's balanced enough. If your gonna complain that's unfair then look at this fact.
1.) The killer is supposed to be 4x times stronger than the survivors in every map not just the few that favor the killer. How will the killer go against 4 survivors when the killer isn't as strong as a single survivor?
2.) Maps shouldn't favor survivors because of how many pallets and windows are in a map. Instead maps should always favor survivors in how much opportunity there is to hide and avoid chases.
3.) More opportunities to hide means they should remove more of the pallets! It's seems like the more pallets there are, the less hiding becomes viable since pallets waste more time than risking taking a early hit by hiding.
4.) Certain killer's that trumps hiding like the Doctor, I'll be okay with more pallets since hiding is like attempting to 4%'ing.
Bamboozled should be able permanently block one window for every tier. If you have 3 Windows blocked tier 3 and you vault a non blocked window, the earliest blocked window will be removed to block the new window.
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@DocOctober said:
On the long window loops, the time frame is not enough to keep it closed until the looping Survivor gets back to it and there's another reason that I observe happening more and more often.As the Clown especially, Survivors expect you to have Bamboozle, so they will slightly alter the path to another nearby loop, loop that, then they go back to the original loop which will be open again.
Bamboozle is useless at the T-L shaped windows too, you can only bamboozle one window sadly.....
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
The map designers for BHVR do one of the worst jobs I've ever seen in my entire life.
There's only one guy who makes the maps. Personally, I think they should hire a new guy.
Really? who is it?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsie4pHH99E
