My Problem With NOED

NMCKE
NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
Prologue

No One Escapes Death is the most discussed perk in the game from both roles. Survivors think it's crutch, and killers think it's balanced for the most part. However, I have my own opinion, that being No One Escapes Death is not a skill perk for the killer, but it's not a crutch.


Problem

You as the killer, can be terrible or God-like and still get No One Escapes Death to activate. This perk doesn't curve with the killer's skill, and it feeds off of survivors' laziness. Talking about laziness, the perk is practically dead if you get a group of dedicated survivors.


Do you want to be rewarded for your skill, or for survivors' laziness? Pick one.


Hex: No One Escapes Death

You're lust for a sacrifice gets out of control when your prey is on the verge of escape. When all survivors have been at least hooked once, this perk will activate if the Exit Gates are powered. While active, your attacks will cause the Doomed status effect for 70/80/90 seconds, and your successful attack cool-downs is decreased by 20%.


Doomed Status Effect is like a personal Blood Warden; survivors cannot leave through the Exit Gates while affected by this.


Explanation

As someone who use to play killer, it's pretty easy to hook everyone because I often get the full benefit from BBQ. However, I prefer this version because it gives both the killer, and the survivor control over the perk, but most ultimately, this perk rewards the killer for their skilled play.


Let's say you tunnel someone and camp them, survivors gen-Blitzkrieg you as a result, then they don't have to worry about No One Escapes Death because you as the killer wasn't skillful enough to hook everyone.


Epilogue

Hopefully, this change will make the perk into a more skillful perk rather than a perk that only works because the survivors are too lazy to cleanse a totem.

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Comments

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,246

    Its not a crutch, its an endgame perk. The killer prepares for the situation that all generators get done.

    It's trigger isnt neither dependant on a players skill, but the game reaching a certain stage.

    What makes it different from survivor endgame perks is thast NOED is a hex, and thus can be prevented BEFORE and AFTER its activation.

    Sorry for the rant. Back to topic.


    I think your idea is weird, for the lack of better words. It is more of a bloodwarden rework, and honestly doesnt need the "generators are powered" anymore. Personally, i also think your "skillful" condition of hooking ALL survivors is more difficult to achieve than cleansing 5 totems.

    The effect itself becomes rather weak because survivors will, unlike with bloodwarden, be aware that they cannot leave and thus will hide away from the gates, if affected.

  • xCarrie
    xCarrie Member Posts: 982

    Honestly there’s a lot of ideas people have for noed and while they all seem great there’s a lot of people who disagree and don’t want it changed. I even had one that makes noed not a hex perk but a totem based perk.

    A perk rooting its power on lack of objective awareness. You are animated by the power of your totems when the survivors are on the verge of escaping. Once the exit gates are powered, NOED becomes active for 60 seconds. For each dull totem remaining on the map, 20 additional seconds are added onto the timer. While noed is active

    • Survivors suffer from the Exposed status effect
    • Your movement speed is increased by 4%

    Movement speed remains increased after the timer has ended.

  • Wolfgamer0402
    Wolfgamer0402 Member Posts: 41

    I'm sorry but does survivor gets any notification of the said hex being present unless he completes every gennys.

    For example with Ruin you get to know it as soon as you get a skill check.

    So like you should know right if the killer has it or not

    Because then every round will be destroying totems.

  • TheGorgon
    TheGorgon Member Posts: 777

    I think NOED should always sustain the effect of exposed, since survivors can just bully you to the point where you don't even get a kill. It does sorta force a second objective if you asked me. I will say adding a whole new status effect for NOED would be atrocious and BHVR should build upon the idea they've created and establish it for both sides as a used perk, but not over the top.

    I have no suggestion other than keeping exposed for it, even as a survivor main. xqcL

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    People complain about NOED not requiring effort on the killers part to activate but survivors have plenty of perks that give them benefit for no real effort and with no downside.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,214

    @HeyItsNick123andnea

    First of all, the Killer not getting any Kills does not mean that he got bullied. He can simply play vs Survivors who are better than him. Getting no Kills does not mean the Killer played vs some form of Bullysquad.

    Furthermore, NOED will not help to get him Kills except for the Endgame. Because, when you have the Instadown, you only need half of the time for a chase than usual. Furthermore, with 4% movement Speed Buff, you will end Loops without any need to mindgame. And if you can simply get your Downs and Kills (even if it is most likely not 4) with your training wheels, you will simply not learn how to play (a) Killer.

  • TheGorgon
    TheGorgon Member Posts: 777

    To the first point, that's why I said "can". By kills, I obviously meant Endgame and referring to if the killer did come across the situation where they did in fact have a real difficult time, NOED doesn't guarantee, but it improves your chances of getting a kill, setting a side the possibility of being broken before then. :)

  • Seltas0208
    Seltas0208 Member Posts: 1,056

    This actually looks interesting as a perk. But it'd make blood warden look weaker than it already is however I think the time they're affected by doomed should corralate to how many dull totems are left

    1 - 40

    2 - 45

    3 - 50

    4 - 55

    5 - 60

  • CrispyChestnuts
    CrispyChestnuts Member Posts: 175

    Maybe noed could put all the healthy survivors in the injured state and give deep wounds and mangle all survivors. Now that there's a countdown at the end of the match, there's much less of an argument that you can just do bones after you find out they took noed.

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    Do bones before opening the gate. The timer doesn't start immediately after the gates are powered.

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    The fun thing about noed threads is knowing all the complaints go nowhere because the devs said they're not changing it.

  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,803

    The devs have said a lot of things. They change their mind pretty frequently. You don't have to read these posts, you know.

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582
  • IamFran
    IamFran Member Posts: 1,616

    If you are not touched the whole match and you are touched and downed at the end is your fault, why you don't stay untouched at the end too? Also, always the same, your argument can be expressed for the opposing team, why if you have played bad as survivor and downed and hooked two times and you are downed again and the gates are opened you get a health state and speed buff with adrenaline?

  • Madjura
    Madjura Member Posts: 2,456

    The only joke here is you

    If you have no interaction with the killer the entire game that means you have more than enough time to do totems. But you didn't. Because you are bad and you absolutely deserved to lose in that game. The only problem with NOED is that players like you who ignore totems and then cry on the forums have a chance to survive instead of being just straight up mori'd

  • Papamodzz
    Papamodzz Member Posts: 57

    Not to mention the reason why MOM got change "cause survivors had to do nothing but get hit" but noed gets buff exposed on all levels

  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    My only problem with NOED: survivors who don't break totems.

    You are not exempt from countering a perk and also exempt from its effects. This is entitlement of the highest order.

  • Karl_Childers
    Karl_Childers Member Posts: 669

    I wouldn’t care if they left it as is, with the one condition being only survivors who have been hooked once become exposed. Killer wants to camp, forcing survivors to rush gens to counter that? Go ahead, you might only end up with one survivor exposed as a result. Sounds a lot more fair to me.

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,246

    Oh i like the "survivorS have to work for adrnaline and hope" - argumentation because its totally false. possible for those running the perks to activate them without touching a generator. Most vids i see on yt proccing adrenaline are NOT when finishing a gen yourself.

    There are no free kills unless a survivor rages or gives up and just lets himself get killed. ANY other scenario involves the killer doing something, even NOED.

    Also survivors shouldnt complain about others on "not having to do anything" for a free win.

    Hatch.

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    2019 and NOED still triggering survivors like 2016 🤩

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @Orion

    Well, I gave my reasoning on why it is a problem, but instead of giving me counter points or try to argue back, you just call me entitled. I didn't even call it a crutch and I always cleanse totems. 😭

  • FrenziedRoach
    FrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,600

    Maybe because Orion doesn't like your idea and thinks the perk is fine how it is.

    The problem is literally that survivors don't want to do their optional objective, even though people keep whining that survivors need something else to do.

    YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO DO, DO THE DAMN BONES!

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    And now that totems (both dull and hex) give Lightbringer points, totems are literally part of their objective now.

    As they walk right by every dull totem on the map....

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @FrenziedRoach

    Probably, but I would like some counter points from him since he seems to understand a lot more than I do. However, my point still stands, No One Escapes Death feeds off of the survivors' laziness, and is useless when you get a group of dedicated survivors. My idea for a rework to involve a little more skill, plus changing the perk to not be completely destroyed when you do get dedicated would be great.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    I’d prefer current noed, honestly it’d be hard to rework noed. Until it gets something continue doing the bones like you said you do. :)

    Here is a tip guys, at the beginning of the game don’t do gens and look for totems.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @DrDeepwound

    I do every totem I come across, and I often bring Small Game or Special Maps to locate totems easily. However, in most cases, you're likely forced to do all of them because your teammates are lazy. Like I said, this perk is very viable when you get lazy survivors, and is near useless when you get dedicated survivors. See where I'm coming from?

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    So what you are saying is the perk is balanced and is not OP.

    Not only can it be countered, but it doesnt even work much of the time.

    Yeah I see where you coming from. It's a team game, if your team sucks, not the killer or perks fault.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @DrDeepwound

    The perk isn't consistent, that's what I'm saying. You as the killer have no say on whether or not the perk activates because you're hoping to the holy Entity that you get lazy survivors.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @ClogWench

    Perks like Technician doesn't have much of an impact to the game, so they don't need a condition nor a downside.


    Lightweight is in the same boat with Technician, you won't be able to tell a difference to be honest.

  • Dehitay
    Dehitay Member Posts: 1,726


    Yeah exactly, it's a killer perk with effects that are determined by survivors and not the killer. I'd like to see these entitled killer mains name one single survivor perk with effects determined by the killer instead of the survivor other than Alert, Boil Over, Borrowed Time, Iron Will, Distortion, Kindred, Mettle of Man, Sole Survivor, and Spine Chill.

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    Yep, all hex perks are. It's why many killers, myself included, don't really run them. I play without ruin etc,.,.. I'm not much of a gambling man.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    @NMCKE technically technician and lightweight have a condition, technician requires you to be working on a gen or fail a skill check, lightweight requires you to be running.

    A better example would be DS since it mostly relies on the killer activating it.

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    See I was thinking perks like Balanced Landing, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Iron Will, etc. Ones that are strong and don't have any downside.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @Dehitay

    Decisive Strike, the killer has control on whether or not it activates and if it triggers on them, for the most part.


    However, this isn't what the thread is about tho, No One Escapes Death doesn't have a skill curve attached to it. You just have to hope survivors are lazy, and you're guaranteed a strong End Game.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,432


    Which survivor perk requires no effort that compares to NoEd?

    I'm talking a perk that activates at endgame, that has as big of an effect as No Ed.

    I'm genuinely curious.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243

    @ClogWench

    Balanced Landing can be troublesome in certain maps, but otherwise, the perk is balanced around exhaustion and drop points.


    Sprint Burst doesn't give you control on whether or not the perk activates, unless you're always walking around, which is very slow.


    Borrowed Time doesn't make both survivors immune, which means the savior can be downed and hooked.


    Iron Will is a stealthy perk, but stealth isn't really viable in Dead by Daylight, so I'm okay with it.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,432
    edited July 2019


    @Papamodzz If I could give you 1000 likes I would.

    I have no issue with what NoEd does, I have always had an issue with how it is activated.

    You don't want to get me started on the MoM topic, because that would steer away from the topic at hand. I can tell you though, the outcry was huge in comparison to No Ed threads.

  • Mc_Harty
    Mc_Harty Member Posts: 3,293

    That my issue as well.

    I don't give a ######### if it one shots. Just its mechanics.

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    First I want to clarify that I'm not claiming any of these perks are broken by any means in their current condition.

    Listing things these perks DON'T do means very little, since those aren't drawbacks. Like saying a drawback of NOED is that it doesn't reveal survivor auras. It's just not relevant.

    These perks(and most others) all have their own restrictions but not drawbacks. The survivor gets a wholly positive outcome with 0 cost and typically minimal effort. The big difference being that the killer has little to no way to actually counter or stop these. Which is fine. NOED is a risk free perk because even if cleansed, the killer gets extra time during the match as a result so you're guaranteed to benefit at least a little.

  • BeanieBoyBob
    BeanieBoyBob Member Posts: 354


    People are once again forgetting about Rule 5872 of the Survivors Rulebook for Killers! Of course Survivors don't have to do bones, otherwise how could they complain about NOED!?

  • Papamodzz
    Papamodzz Member Posts: 57

    I agree the issue isnt the one shot its how its activate aswell the fact it got buff so killers can walk around with kmart noed and enjoy lol

  • Papamodzz
    Papamodzz Member Posts: 57

    Theres ways to counter the exhaustion perks some killers have add on that gives it like doctor huntress and a few others i think could be wrong

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    I'm not counting select add-ons that low tier killers may or may not be running. An add-on is not reliable counter play, nor is it a drawback of the perk.

  • Papamodzz
    Papamodzz Member Posts: 57

    True but still exhaustion doesnt go down mid chase so ehh

  • ClogWench
    ClogWench Member Posts: 2,582

    That's a mechanic, still not a drawback. It's still a positive effect with 0 drawback.