My Problem With NOED
Comments
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If we change noed to being hooked then adrenaline should only work on non hooked people. Just saying
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I don't see why people are still argueing about this topic, even as a beginner I have always understood that if you don't want to fight againt noed just do bones, like really.
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FIRE UP HAS NO COUNTER PLAY AND REWARDS THE KILLER WITH BUFFS FOR FAILURE!
I think we need to make Fire Up a Hex!
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I dont see your logic here. If NOED is useless against dedicated Survivors, then are you saying whatever time spent on cleansing totems was useless against the very same teams you can struggle having lack of time.
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And which perks are you talking about?
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I've actually been running a fun/themed Pig build with it -
BBQ - Simulate Camera + BP (Can also use Infectious Fright for reversed effect)
Ruin - Rigging The Game (Slows down gens)
Fire Up - Game gets slightly harder as victims reach the conclusion, tiny perma buff when a trap activates (which is a cool concept that should be further explored)
NOED - Plot Twist (cue Saw theme)
Usually run trash add-ons (like brown crouch speed and brown skill check), unless I run into someone I know or a perceived squad.
It's been really fun (I'm pretty good at Pig scares), and people in the post game have all been surprised by Fire Up, as its impact has been noticed throughout several trials.
Either way, it's pretty funzo :)
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I'm saying No One Escapes Death is inconsistent because you have to hope that you get lazy survivors AKA survivors that don't do totems. Therefore, the perk isn't based on the killer's skill, but more about feeding off the survivors' laziness. I don't care about what the perk does, I care about how it is activated.
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This stems from the mindset that "once all gens are done, the survivors win".
People who complain about noed are usually the same people who think that they, as a survivor, have already won the game once the last gen has been completed. They don't like the fact that their victory is being robbed from them.
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honestly, that should be its own perk.
NOED serves as a punishment for survivors who ignore their secondary objective and it really should stay that way.
we need something to make dull totems worth cleansing and therefore getting the focus off of gens, and NOED certaintly does that.
i like the current NOED, it could be better, but i like it.
the one thing that really NEEDS to stay imo is the totem aspect - we can discuss the rest, but the punishment for failing at the secondary objective for survivors should really stay.
i made my own idea of how i personally think NOED could be changed in a different post, ill leave the link to the full thing down below, but the basic idea is that NOED lights up all totems and allows immediate kills (like a tombstone), but therefore breaks a totem for each survivor killed.
link to the discussion (comment is on page 4): https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/76413/people-that-complain-about-noed-myself-included-how-would-you-change-it/p4
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The Factual Truth:
Noed is single handedly the strongest killer perk by far.
Noed is currently a huge crutch for killers (you can easily get a 4k with the game starting with the gates powered.)
The perk itself is overpowered, and needs a massive rework/nerf. Sooner rather than later since its crippling the game.
It involves an incredibly low amount of skill and takes away from the fun, and the integrity of the game suffers.
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@MySpaceBarsBroken aaand you completely forgot to mention the part where survivors can prevent it from activating by simply cleansing some totems ^^
dont worry, i gotcha. we dont wanna forget anything here, do we? :D
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My main problem with NOED solo survivors aren't coordinated enough and many do not use totems so it usually just punishes solos (maybe add a totem counter?). My second problem is High tier killers can put enough pressure on where doing totems would equal in a loss. So for the few higher tier killers it actually is a crutch imo for lower tier it isn't. I have no idea how to fix it personally but hopefully the genrush meta gets fixed someday so NOED can be rightfully nerfed then.
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I don't like how we are using perks to create a secondary objective, which means I want an actual objective. I think I'm speaking for every here because you shouldn't be forced to run Ruin and NOED to slow the game down just a little bit. :(
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This doesnt balance it, since finding all 5 totems by yourself isnt plausible on half the maps and the time wasted looking for them is far beyond a reasonable time to counter the perk.
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oh belive me, we both want that secondary objective.
however, by taking away the totem aspect of NOED, you would literally take away any reason for dull totems to exist in the first place. the devs could also just go ahead and remove all totems from the map and only add one if a Hex perk requires one to spawn.
and you better dont tell monto this, but you actually dont need those perks to slow the game down just a lil bit! but psssst! 🤫
NOED currently gives dull totems a reason to exist in the first place and punishes survivors hard for misplays, which is what i personally really like about it.
its a gamble on both sides: the killer says that survivors will not cleanse the totems and therefore his reward (if he was right) is NOED in the end and survivors gamble any time they see a totem weather the killer has NOED or not. if they cleanse it and the killer had no NOED, thats 20 seconds of wasted time (per totem), if they dont cleanse it and the killer has NOED, they get struck by an exposed effect when they were so close to escaping. however, they also get rewarded if they gamble right, by eigther getting to genrush faster or by forcing the killer to play with 3 perks.
like i said, that system could be better, but it works decently right now.
TL;DR: i am mostly happy with the perk as is. its okay if you disagree, but i doubt i'll change my mind about it anytime soon. imo the game needs something that puts the already existing secondary objective into focus and gives dull totems a reason to exist.
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TL;DR: "i do not want to cleanse totems, but i also do not want to get punished for not doing it!"
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I would actually say it the other way round. NOED is one of the most consistent perks in the game. You dont get to trigger it? You gained time because Survivors focused on totems. You got to trigger it? You gain its special effect. I really dont see nothing wrong with that. NOED is a two-sided coin, unlike most perks around. You benefit from having it whether it triggers or not.
If your problem is with when it triggers, I dont really get where you are coming from. Perks are supposed to give you a power up on something. If it capitalises on a Survivor's misplay, then so be it. Just dont run the perk if you dislike the way it works. And if you dont like facing the perk (which, honestly, NOED isnt nearly as common as people make out), then go for its counters.
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TLDR "I clearly only play killer and I run noed every game! I want my kills to continue to be spoonfed to me! Noed is fair🤓"
At minimum, the speed increase needs to be removed. There should be an immediate notification for all survivors that the killer has noed. And there should be a timer on how long it lasts, similar to haunted ground.
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^^^
The cry for attention via histrionics is deafening on a substantial quantity of your posts.
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Didn't the devs also say they were never going to add a clown Killer way back when?
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guess i struck a nerve there, didnt i?
the fact that you just immediately skipped to insults rather than argumentation only shows that you have no counter argument to mine and know im saying the truth.
you came up with that doublestandart, not me. i just happened to point it out.
and here are a few fun facts about me:
yes, i am a killer main. but thats not because i think killer is easier or anything like that, its just that i enjoy the gameplay a lot more. i do play survivor from time to time.
funnily enough, even though i always defend the perk, i never use it on the killers i leveled - who have alterantives. thats partly because i dont wanna get ######### on by every survivor out there, but mostly because i believe there are better alternatives to the perk, e.g. Bloodwarden. NOED imo is a meh tier perk (which is also why i keep defending it - ITS NOT THAT STRONG!)
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I'm just trying to follow your structure in commenting. You start by attacking the user personally, then go into your biased views that are all dependent on strawman fallacy logic. I'd rather you keep it short so I dont have to read that much nonsense lol
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LOL
would you be so kind to point out the part in my posts where i started insulting you?
cause i cant find any xD
in fact: the one starting the insults were you.
now excuse me please, but i think there are better ways to spend my time that having this nonsense "debate" with you.
this leads nowhere. give me a good reason to why NOED is "not worth the time cleansing" but also "has too good effects and should be nerfed" - which was the double standart you brought up yourself btw - and we can continue the debate. dont do so and please dont expect me to answer to your posts anymore.
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If you stop deleting and re-editing your posts maybe I will
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This is where you began being disrespectful with your presumptuous TLDR for my post. Which was unprovoked because i was not undermining of your comments before this. I'm starting to think you just like hearing yourself talk
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okay, this was so hilarious i just needed to react LOL
first of all, you can NOT delete posts on this forum!
secondly, when editing a post, there is a big red message beneath said post, telling every user on the forum THAT the post has been edited and WHEN exactly that happened. (if for some reason that doesnt show up, there is also a little timer in the top right corner of the post telling you when the post has been posted. if it has been edited, that will also be shown. it looks like this: "11:46PM edited 11:47PM")
so i neigther removed posts, nor did i edit them xD
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Relevant:
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but isnt that basically what you just said?
in your first comment you said the perk would require immediate nerfs.
but when i said you should cleanse the totems, you said it wouldnt be worth it.
with other words, you were saying that you didnt want to cleanse the totems, but also dont want to be hit by an exposed status effect.
thats all i pointed out.
EDIT: @MySpaceBarsBroken (so you get the notification)
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You just said you werent going to answer with anymore comments. Now here you are.
Can I take it that you'll continue to go back on your word and contradict everything you say? Or is it just this one time. Can you clarify that much?
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since i asked you to point out the scenes where i "insulted" you, this is a different topic. i basically asked you to do sthg for me, so i could give you a reasonable explanation to why i said this, which i did. unless you bring up any more "insulting" posts of mine, i will not be answering any of your replies, unless you bring up a valid argument to why you think noed is op and also not worth cleansing.
the other one was literally just because i had to laugh so hard when reading it xD
dont worry, wont happen again <3
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Good thing there are 4 survivors then, right?
Everybody looking for at least one, maybe a second?
But that's just too hard to "Do the bones", isn't it?
LMAO
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Yeah, straight up catching somebody in a blatant lie in a fashion that can be proven is definitely grasping at straws.
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ecxactly, well said
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dull totems give a pitiful amount of % to the emblem
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Just to be clear, I don't want to nerf No One Escapes Death, I just want it to activate differently, and have a more fun mechanic (while staying a strong perk). I'm saying this because I don't want people assuming I'm wanting a nerf - I just want what's best for the game just like everyone else here. I feel like No One Escapes Death is an unhealthy perk for the game overall, and it needs a rework.
I know the developers have a bad history with reworking stuff such as The Legion, but if they took my rework idea, No One Escapes Death will be a great perk in my opinion.Also, there could be perks in later chapters that create Hex totems during the Trial.
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At the current state of DbD, NOED is good how it is. If a 2nd objective for survivors would get implemented, then NOED could get changed, but not now.
@NMCKE Sorry, your suggestion doesn't work with how DbD currently is. When you play an average M1 killer against very good groups, you won't make it to the point that you hook 4 different people. Your concept would work with S- and A-tier killers, but these don't need NOED anyway. It would work against not-so-good groups, but again, for those you don't need NOED anyway.
At the moment, NOED is a way to get some momentum in the endgame if the survivors focussed on the gens without paying attention to totems.
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It starts immediately when the gates are powered when I play killer lol. I always open that gate ASAP to start the collapse. Also if you aren't affected by a hex why do bones? Playing around every perk a killer could conceivably have is the kind of paranoia that gets you in the loony bin.
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You can ostensibly delete posts on this forum by editing them to be inappropriate.
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Or, better yet, just flag your comments you want deleted, and the mods will take care of it. As a bonus, you won't get a warning for making inappropriate comments.
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People keep saying that bones are a secondary objective, but without taking a perk or item just to find them it's not uncommon to go the whole game without even being aware you are near one. Imagine if generators were that hard to find lol, the survivors would never get gens done. They don't give enough bp to argue they are a secondary objective, they lack the visibility to argue they are a secondary objective, they don't open a hatch or portal or something to argue they are a secondary objective. Treating having to play around one killer perk as making bones a secondary objective is foolish. If noed didn't exist people wouldn't even attempt to argue that bones are a secondary objective.
Some solutions?
Attach a giant pile with flickering lights to the top of bones like gens lol
Require survivors to have all the bones done to escape
Make noed trigger at the beginning of the match
Make more perks that trigger in different scenarios if bones aren't done
Or... Stay with me here... Just rework noed.
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That's a good idea too, the only downside of which is waiting for it to be taken down instead of getting it off of there immediately.
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I still have no idea why you cherry-picked NOED.
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oh, i havent viewed your rework idea as a nerf to the perk at all. (otherwise i would have just said "cleanse totems" and left)
honestly, your idea is a huge buff to the perk! i mean, when having a 120 second countdown ticking down to the survivors doom and then locking them in for 90 seconds, thats like a guaranteed kill! if you happen to hit a survivor 30 seconds into the collapse, they are dead. literally. on top of that, the perk is not removable and has a fairly simple activation condition.
that is one hell of a strong NOED.
my main issue with that rework would just be, that it would kill any reason for dull totems to exist in the first place. like i said before, the devs could also just remove dull totems from the game and only add hex totems (which would actually make them harder to find, now that i think about it...) if a killer uses hex perks.
imo we need something that puts the focus on those totems, which is exactly what NOED does.
on top of that, your idea is like a 180° turn for that perk. i cant recall the devs ever completely deleting a perk's effects and then add completely different ones to it. perks usually keep the main effect, it just changes how the effect activates / plays out. NOED has always had this exposed effect, they just changed how it activates. it went from a permanent endgame perk to a 120 second countdown to a Hex perk. your idea would not only remove that effect, it would also remove the totem aspect and add something entirely different, which is why i said it should be its own perk (or, now that i think about it, it should be a bloodwarden rework. that would fit even better!)
i hope i made this more understandable with this post.
i really dont dislike your idea, i just think it isnt fitting for NOED, honestly.
have a nice day! :D
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I play both sides (more killer) at red ranks with over 2k hours in the game.
I don't think Noed needs touching.
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Maybe so, but playing around an extremely common perk that can be very powerful if not dealt with is a good idea.
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Is it common? I guess that would explain why so many people complain about it lol. I don't run into it much on PS4. I thought it was like the candiru, where even if it only happened once people were just terrified of the outcome. It's not worth doing bones for the bloodpoints, so I guess your milage may vary based on how often tiny fish swim up your pee hole in your meta.
Also someone said they don't recall the devs ever completely changing a perk? Tinkerer.
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What people need to accept that the game doesn't have to be 100% about skill. In fact, the majority of games aren't. Indeed, most popular games are created with built-in catch up mechanics to allow the lower-skilled player to stand a chance.
Look at the n00b Tube
Look at the ever-hated blue spikey shell.
Look at Akuma in certain parts of the SF series.
Most skill players not only shun them, but skillfully counterplay them without complaint.
NOED falls into this catagory.
NOED gives the lesser skilled player a way to bring the game back. Most of us who play killer alot don't use it as we'd rather have another perk to counter loops. Most of us who know all the spawn spots for the bones will make sure it never activates.
It's boring to do all the gens and geting out easily, and it's boring getting your ass handed to you for the entire game by skilled survivors. NOED injects a little equilibrium into what would otherwise be a dull game.
It would be stupid to remove it.
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It's meta-warping. Maybe just add more perks that do stuff for each dull totem left like thrill of the hunt or rework noed. Maybe just make something like noed a built in part of the game? Endgame collapse is shorter but if you do bones it's longer? There's ways to make noed not meta-warping without fixing noed, but simple solutions are often the best.
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