General Discussions
General Discussions
Doctor is kinda like old Freddy...
This is just my opinion but I have no fun versing doctor and he is weak. I have come up with some ideas as to how to fix him. He is not strong/viable in any way without specific addons. He is annoying to play as and annoying to play against.
WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS?
• Doctor was given the ability to stop survivors from vaulting by shocking them, however this hardly works and it is very easy for survivors to continue due to his slow movement while shocking. He usually will shock them most of the time due to the huge area of effect that the electricity has. Insanity is annoying because if you are at level 3 of madness and snap out of it, you will inevitably suffer the effects because you go down to 2 instead of just going back to 0.
HOW TO FIX THIS?
- Make the shock shoot into a thinner longer line, like the addon but not as thin.
- Doctor will maintain his base speed even whilst shocking.
- Whenever a survivor is shocked, they will not be able to vault for 3 seconds.
FIXING MADNESS:
- Doctors hallucinations only show up at level 3.
- Snapping out of it takes you from 3 to 0 (no madness).
- Pallet hallucinations will always show up.
- There would no longer be annoying skillchecks.
- Snapping out of it will take 25) seconds
- While snapping out at lvl 3 madness, no hallucinations would show up.
- Snapping out has normal skillchecks
- You may work on generators at lvl 3 madness
EXTRA SPICE ADDED TO FURTHER COMPLETE THE NEW DOCTOR CHANGES:
•Doctor is given a new ability called "Mind Control"
• Whenever doctor uses mind control, he can teleport into his hallucinations, scaring the poop out of survivors.
EXPLANATION ON HOW HE WOULD PLAY AND WHY THESE CHANGES...
- Playing as Doctor: Landing the shock is now harder to hit and gives a better reward if you land it.
- Missing a hit will not slow you so you can get the hit off if you land the shock.
- New survivors will not suffer the effects of the "difficult" skillchecks and Rank 1 wont have to deal with them because theyre just annoying and dont even slow the game.
- Since it takes a longer time (25) seconds to snap out, survivors will either
• A) be hesitant /choose to ignore snapping out due to the long time it takes and suffer the consequences by giving the doctor the ability to teleport to their hallucinations for map pressure and a huge advantage.
• B) Snap out of it which would mean you have to sit there for 25 seconds and not be working on a gen which would slow the game.
Its a classic Pick Your Poison like plague has, choose to stay injured and not give her damaging vomit or give her damaging vomit but stay healthy. Theres an example from the game to show it is possible and it could work.
IN CONCLUSION: These changes would give Doctor some viability, increased amount of skill to play him, and be overall less annoying for survivors to verse. He himself would just be alot more fun to play. Imagine you teleport to someones hallucination and scare the SH*T OUT OF EM! SO FUN TO THINK ABOUT.
Everyone. Lets discuss. If you like my ideas, Like the discussion. If not, dislike and tell me why you disagree with my changes <3
Comments
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Yes the action block is what should be buffed in some way because that's actually cool and interesting design
He's weak right now and that's an easy way to increase his powerlevel and also skill ceiling
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This sounds like it’ll just make him even worse against high rank Survivors.
Doctor’s shock stun already lasts 2.5 seconds. I don’t think an extra 0.5 seconds and 115% movement speed while charging the shock is worth making the shock thinner. He can work with the same width but a longer range without the nerfs you’re giving him.
You’re just making Madness 2 completely useless. No extra effects at all. Snap Out of It would be just you holding M1. It’d be really boring to go against him. The teleport is not worth making Madness 2 worthless. He wouldn’t be as fun to play as he is currently.
I’ve got some suggestions for Doctor buffs that you might have seen if you’ve looked at any “buff Doctor” threads. These changes would make a Doctor more of threat at high ranks without using add-ons:
- Increase shock therapy range by at least 25%. The current base range is ridiculously small to the point where you won't even want to use it because you'll be in M1 range. Adjust range add-ons to compensate for this buff if necessary.
- Increase movement while charging up the shock to at least 105%. He can lose a lot of distance from just trying to use his shocks.
- Remove or significantly shorten the shock delay. This is just dumb, I really don't understand why it exists in its current state. Is it to give Survivors a good chance to dodge the shock?
- Significantly shorten or remove the transition between switching modes.
- Add the illusionary pallets to his base kit. They would spawn within an unlimited range of the Doctor every 20 seconds (like the current version of the Very Rare Order add-on).
- Have the Order series of add-ons either buff the illusionary pallets somehow (maybe let the Survivor drop them if they’re standing) or do something new instead (like have the illusions perform some kind of action).
- This one is just personal (I'm not even sure if it's true), but the illusions shouldn't spawn on a different floor than the Survivor they're tracking on multi-floored maps like The Game. It's really annoying to check one floor because of the illusion and then find nothing because the Survivor was actually on the other floor.
- New Ultra Rare add-on: Dr. Otto Stamper’s Files. The static field becomes map wide and shock therapy range is increased by 50% but the charge time is slightly increased (10%). This add-on will not stack with the Order series of add-ons (they increase Madness gain while in the static field by 10/15/25%, depending on the rarity), so you cannot use them to hold the game hostage.
Post edited by SnakeSound222 on8 -
My change would still have pallets at level 2. Its just that useless doctor hallucinations would only be at 3 and would be given a huge use.
In regards to the shock thing, if its even just .5 seconds more, thats solid when you consider no slowdown while charging because the survivor cant sit and loop you forever if you continue to shock, you will be going the base speed.
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The mind control power is a very cool idea
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Doc moves at 110% when in therapy mode, so you want to nerf that to 105%? Idk about that, I'd suggest reducing the time it takes to switch modes by a lot and make him move at 115% while in therapy mode.
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Um, hallucinations aren't useless at all? they basically point directly to where the survivors are located, you just aren't using them properly.
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- "New Ultra Rare add-on: Dr. Otto Stamper’s Files. The static field becomes map wide and shock therapy range is increased by 50% but the charge time is slightly increased (10%)."
That's absurd lol.
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Wraith is a great tracker but once he finds you, you can loop forever. The doctor hallucinations are just annoying. As doctor they are helpful because they tell you where they are. Once you get to them youre just an average default killer. They also kill stealth. Thats lame. Stealth should be rewarded. So if he is able to TP to the hallucinations it adds fear for survivors, gives survivors a choice whether they wanna take time to snap out or work and take that risk. Hallucinations are annoying to verse as survivor because when you are the last survivor and the other one is being slugged, he can figure out exactly where you are. Very lame. Not even wraith can do that.
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I’m not nerfing anything. He moves much slower than 110% while charging up the shock. A lot of people seem to confuse his speed with charging up the shock with normal Treatment mode speed. It’s more noticeable on the higher rarity shock add-ons.
It’s only absurd if you’re bad. Your Madness will go up slowly if you’re far away from Doctor. You also can’t use a full giant terror radius build if you bring the Ultra Rare add-on.
The illusions aren’t useless. Locating Survivors is more useful than you think. Trying to protect a specific area? With the illusions active, you can check other areas without having to worry if a Survivor is hiding nearby because the illusion will point it out and you can run to it. They also gives Doctor a bit of an edge in the end game because he can slug the third Survivor and run right to the last one. Them only appearing at tier 2 if you run an add-on means that in order to completely kill stealth, Doctor needs to run that specific add-on. Those add-ones are basically a worse version of Deerstalker. Otherwise, he has to get lucky and hope that an illusion pops up near him. I heard you can run through the illusions and get them to vanish. They also do not give your exact location away. If you see one, then that means a Survivor is/was in the area. You can also leave the area and the illusion will not follow you until its duration is over.
Giving Doc 115% movement speed while charging up his shock could end up be more annoying and unfun because when you get shocked, it’d almost always guarantee a hit because Doctor is always moving at full speed. You could have Doctors that end up denying any vault or pallet drop at any time and that will piss off a lot of Survivors. At least with Killers like Spirit and Hag you have a chance to loop them. I was thinking that raising the speed while shocking to 105% and increasing the range and shortening the delay would give Survivors a chance to do their precious loops (because Survivor fun is somehow the most important thing ever and is the main factor in how new Killers are designed) and give Doctor a good chance to stun the Survivor. As it is right now Survivors can gain a lot of distance on you and make your shock useless.
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I don't think teleporting directly to a survivor is a healthy thing, honestly, unless he can't move for a bit after the teleport.
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Well while I do think that going straight from 3 to 0 is good... electricity still runs through even if you take some out. Maybe like 3 to 1?
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survivors would know to stay near pallets or loops. They can adapt to a change like that.
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that sounds fair. Although i like the idea that if they choose to snap out, they could instantly be put back in as well as reveal their location.
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With my change it would be harder to actually land the shock. If you were to, it would give you a deserved hit and you wouldnt be stuck there going around in circles forever. Unlike right now, he would catch up regardless. As for the hallucinations, im not saying they are 100% useless, its just that whenever I play doc, i only use them to slug at the end and whenever I verse doctors and they do that, its super annoying. Getting rid of the addons that spawn it early is just making him more fun to verse. Adding a teleportation to it gives it more use and adds fear to the game that is lacking that.
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@WickedMilk03 Survivors already stay near loops, but it's not like every gen is safe and Freddy's gen teleport ability is already strong. You're basically giving the Doctor undetectable Hag traps that can't be disabled with this change AND he's a 115% killer. What would be the point in playing Hag if you could use her ability but better?
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Well the hallucinations would only pop up at level 3 when snapping out you would go back to no insanity. In conclusion it's basically on the survivors if they give him that ability. It wouldnt be often he would be using it. With hag, you place the traps. The game places the hallucinations and of course the spawning on top of objects would need to be fixed but overall it wouldnt be in use for the full game at all. Its more of a slow game mechanic like pigs traps. They arent meant to get kills however sometimes you will get kills. And it also has a pick your poison like plague, do you give them their ability or stay injured. Do you snap out which would take 25 seconds or would you give him the ability to tp to you and spook you. Do you stop working on gens and snap out inevitably slowing the game or do you not and let him come to you but you can also be on gens consistently. Also maybe i forgot to add, lvl 3 would not stop you from working on gens. You can also compare this to new freddy where he cant use his main abilities unless you are asleep. There are many examples of how this could work already in the game. Also freddy is his own killer. He has great map pressure and i love it. Whats wrong with giving killers map pressure and a learning curve? The best killers have that :)
!!!IF YOU READ MY POST, LVL 3 OF MADNESS WILL NOT PREVENT YOU FROM WORKING ON GENS!!!
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I love that mind control power. Scare the ######### outa survivors. While I think the nerfs to madness are a bit rough, having Survivors go back down to zero would be good since you can use your static field to make them scream again.
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Its a nerf to the annoying parts of madness and a buff to his overall capabilities with some choice making mechanics bc thats great for this game :)
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@WickedMilk03 The hallucinations always spawn practically right in front of the survivor. You could get someone to madness 3, teleport to them in a chase, and hit them without having to chase them. In addition, with it taking 25 seconds to become sane again, that gives him 25 seconds to teleport directly in front of you, and hit you, while you're likely already injured as well. Giving them map pressure is fine. Giving them the ability to completely end a chase before it even begins isn't. While you may not MEAN for it to get kills or hits, it will definitely be used for that specifically. And yes, Hag DOES place her traps, but she relies on Survivors to step on them and not disable them. The Doctor basically would be spawning a phantasm right in front of the survivor without having to place traps. The Doctor would basically be better than Nurse, unless the cooldown on his teleport was really big.
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well you missed the part where hallucinations do not spawn on you if you are snapping out. Also survivors would be prepared for a teleport. Survivors adapt to that kinda stuff. If you are in level three madness and a hallucination pops up, wont you get ready to run or look for a direction to run in? Thats just the smart thing to do. With hag, you dont know the trap is there til it activates. With this doc, you will know he is gonna tp to that hallucination that just spawned.
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Survivors can also run into illusions to dispell them.
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The doctor will also be given the prompt "press _ to tp" or whatever as soon as it spawns so they would probs press it instantly however if a survivor pulled that off it would be very cool. High risk high reward kinda thing i guess.
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@WickedMilk03 Okay, so Survivor turns and runs in the opposite direction. Killer now has direct line of sight of them since the hallucinations are looking at the survivor. If you go behind it, it's probably better, but either way is bad for the survivor. They're not going to get away from a teleport, unless it had drawbacks like a channel time and quite a long cooldown considering those things pop up quite often. And if we're talking about the in-chase scenario, the Doctor still likely gained more distance than he would directly chasing them. Teleporting should not be base-kit for every killer, and his power would DEFINITELY be better than Hag's. There'd be no reason to use a 110% killer who had her power basically be given to the Doctor and made better, not to mention uncounterable, and the killer who is using it having 5% faster move speed.
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They would not pop up often because they would ONLY pop up at lvl 3 madness (the addons that make them pop at lvl 2 would get changed) and snapping out would put you at no madness and they dont show up when snapping out. If you are gonna go behind it you might as well just walk into it so it disappears so he cant teleport but you probably wouldnt have the time to do that most likely unless the killer is distracted.
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@WickedMilk03 I'm talking about the frequency of them appearing. It's like every few seconds. Again, the Doctor doesn't need to be a better Hag. There's no need to make a good killer pointless to buff another. You also never mentioned running through Doctor hallucinations to dispel them, but it wouldn't make a difference since another one would come up in a few seconds.
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they have a pretty decent time in between them and if you knock one out and start snapping out then you wouldnt have to worry about a tp. If you dont snap out then its a risk your willing to take. Its your choice if you wanna give him map pressure or stop for 25 seconds not working. Thats solid because if youre at the end of a match, gen is almost complete and you get madness 3, you would continue to work on the gen bc you are almost done and it doesn't matter if he can tp bc its already too late for him unless noed lol.
Saying this is too similar to hag is like saying freddy using dream snares is too similar to clown. Its not as efficient, its not as controlled, its not as strategic. The hallucinations are randomly placed and you could have one spawn on the opposite side of a wall. On top of that he would be even more different in that he could go across the entire map where as hag cannot. He is very different from hag. That is only secondary, his main power is still shocking except it would actually work.
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25 seconds is a long time. Thats a more than a quarter of a generator. On top of that, once they snap out of it they will be able to be put back in thus instantly revealing their exact location. If they choose to work instead of sit for 25 seconds to snap out then doc gets to tp near them. That sounds fair to me. 25 seconds is pretty long, especially since if it is stopped, it is reset completely so if you are worried he is about to find you 20 seconds in and you cancel and he doesnt find you... thats a whole 55 agonizing seconds that you could be doing a gen which takes 80 seconds... The snap out is currently at 16 seconds btw
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I think the Clone teleport should be an add on it be like Dream projection
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dream projection isnt an addon, its a base ability. And why give one decent killer map pressure but limit the other to an addon that inevitably does a similar thing in a different way?
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@WickedMilk03 It's quite similar to Hag, because the illusions appear usually right in front of the person. Saying you have control over whether to "give him his power or not" is not really true, unless you got away from him, and SOMEHOW no illusions spawned before you tried snapping out of it. They last quite a while as well. Snapping out as the generator was almost finished would be smarter because he very likely COULD have NOED, not to mention that gives him a better view of you going to the exit gates allowing him to prevent it. But again, it could spawn before you started snapping out of it. And ALSO again, he could use this in a chase. The fact that he could go crossmap is ONE of the reasons it's even better than Hag's ability. Not to mention he has all the other extra stuff on top of this teleport you're trying to give him. Hag has ONE thing, and that's teleporting, and she can only do it if survivors let her, and it can be cancelled with flashlights. You're giving the Doctor a teleport that appears without the doctor having to do anything other than what he should already be doing(chasing survivors) and removing the slow while using his shock therapy to make him a faster fire and forget Hag. He might not have as much control over where it spawns, but he'll likely get hits much easier due to the fact that it always spawns in front of the survivor, and he's faster. This is NOT a non-lethal power, and it definitely would create no reason to use Hag outside of being able to place your traps where you want, but even then, as the Doctor, you'd wanna be where survivors were, and if one got away you could easily just track him with your new shiny teleport. Again, not every killer needs a teleport.
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Its just not hag at all. Hag can consistently place traps all over the place and bounce from trap to trap guarding them at the best spots so they cant be looped long. As doctor due to randomness, yes you will see the survivor, yes you will more than likely be able to loop him from where he spawns and you'll have a sec to think "where do I go?" Hallucinations are not spawning in every second, its like every 10 seconds. That gives you around 10 seconds to start snapping out yes? So if we also take in consideration that if the killer is already in a chase then they will not tp to the hallucination unless they know its the injured one. If you get into a chase while you have hallucinations going then there are lots of mindgames to be made.
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I fully support the idea of a snake sound 222 posts: 1,387 and is strictly against your idea of the wicked milk 03 posts: 145
Most likely you play more for the Survivor and do not know the doctor.
I don't like the idea of teleportation at all. I play the doctor, and he's my favorite killer. It is quite strong, but depends on improvements. You just don't know how to play it. Need to know time. But it certainly needs changes, its main drawback is the processing speed and the charge rate of shock. And Yes, of course, the impact is very small, add 25 %. The charge time of the electrode changes. To remove madness from 0??? You really don't know how to play it. This is the main thing that makes a doctor a doctor. Never. Madness 2 should remain always. And it is not necessary to multiply the teleporting assassins. You want to make them all the same. I do not know English , sorry I wrote through a translator.
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I actually mainly play killer. I have 2160 hours in the game. I have played as doctor and do not enjoy him. With addons his shock can be useful but otherwise its very easy to counter. Clown, for example, can throw the gas at you but youre most likely to get to the pallet regardless. Same thing. That part is fixed. I also find him annoying to verse as a survivor whenever i play survivor so I got rid of the annoying bits and made it into a "pick your poison" type ability + making his default ability stronger. Your english was fine mate <3 Also Ive been arguing w that dude up there for a bit on why it would work if you wanna go through all that. Also keep in mind he is very difficult for lower rank survivors because of the hard skillchecks, and misunderstanding of how his abilities work. whereas high ranks know exactly how to get around all his abilities.
My changes make him more fun and less frustrating to play as and to play against.
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The doctor doesn't need your ideas. It's quite good, and I played them on the red grades without problems by doing -4 and - 3 to change the rank system. But the fact that survey do the DS and just die on the hooks. In addition, now I have little time I can afford no more than 4 matches because it is a very long search for the lobby. Repeat once more. He has three problems - long charging electrode, a small radius of impact without improvements, and the frequent inconsistency of the strike and the behavior of survivors. But I'm waiting for dedicated servers and maybe this problem will go away.And illusion should have a red glow like the doctor himself if it is really in order to frighten the survivors. It is useless to improve a horse. It is high time to remake or remove it altogether. I have 859 of them. Don't make all murderers into Witches. The doctor only needs a little polishing. And it requires a lot of experience playing it.
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He is talking about Doctor's movement WHEN charging Carter's Spark. In case you didn't know, Doctor moves at 77%(3.08 m/s), So he loses 33%(38%) movement speed when using his ability at loops. For high-level doctor players, Doctor treatment movement speed and switch mode speed is kind of irrelevant because you can switch modes while walking and you only change modes to do a single shock, then you go back to punishment mode. He's suggesting to buff 77% movement to 105% movement. If that change was implemented, it would improve him a lot and it would make very fluid to play instead of clunky killer he is now. Hopefully the add-on rework improves doctor a bit as he is very underwhelming to face.
Illusions aren't useless, they're great tracking tools, and they improve killer's ability to juggle multiple survivors. His afflictions need no change. Low-rank survivors hate doctor because they suck at looping and skill-checks, though I have no clue why would you balance the game for players who aren't good at the game. They'd lose to killers who have no power anyway and killers they face don't know how to use killers powers effectively either.
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The game should never focus on low-rank survivors. It won't give her any progress. Survivors must learn. The killer must be strong in high ranks. Maybe the Doctor isn't your killer. He's the best for me. Even my Spirit is worse. If I see a SWF I take the Doctor. And the corresponding build. Believe the Doctor as is original and good and only a little it should be corrected. You want to say that the nurse and Billy is not scary for the survivors of low grade??? For me, Billy's worst killer. I almost never get away from him . And 80 % I run away from the Doctor earning almost always 2 drops. Simply very difficult in the game.
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The speed of the Doctor in the treatment is small. She could have changed. But it was not too hard for the survivors it is necessary to Change the speed in the treatment or make the instant charging of electric shock. Survivors look back and see how I'm trying to get an electric shock. They just have time to maneuver. I mean smart survivors. I don't like the idea of changing the radius of impact. Even taking a beam of 20 meters which is quite wide - hit them one and get pretty hard. So I think it is also useless to improve as well as a second tape - it's all garbage. The survivors twist, turn, and avoid the blow. The radius of the stroke should remain unchanged. As well as madness. And I just don't want to see all the killers teleporting. And Yes, without the radius of the electrode is very small. Very. slightly increase it.
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I don't want another killer with teleport ability, I want something original, we already have 3 killers that can teleport. (Not counting Spirit)
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Superbly. It is ideal for recycling
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Regardless of how good you play him, he just isnt viable. His shocks are basically useless.
Even if someone was really good at freddy before rework, he was still annoying to play against yes? Its not that this would nerf him for low ranks, it would actually buff him in all ranks and make him less annoying in all ranks.
Yes the hallucinations are good trackers but theyd be alot better if you could teleport to them considering he has little map pressure, and the game as a whole isnt that scary AND hos madness works as a tracker by default
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Well sadly thats what needs to be done since the game is poorly balanced. Some maps are huge vs others and killers have alot of weight on their shoulders. If objectives werent so quick and if maps werent so huge, screw the teleport, but at the same time this is in a unique way. Its like something out of a horror movie. It would be scary to think something is fake and have it pop up and wack you. Thats the interesting part. Also if you play it right, the doc shouldnt hardly be able to use it but instead it would help slow the game by forcing survivors to sit through a 25 second timer
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I don't like the new Freddy. Yes, he's strong, but he doesn't trust the red ranks. Wait a bit and it will again become something very average. Old Freddie was original, he was unique and it also had a little bit to alter, adjust. The only good thing about the new Freddy is the pallets. But trust me smart survivors rarely get into their bait. That now gives dream ? It's almost Legion strength. It doesn't slow down like before. Traps too - I didn't notice much slowing down of the survivors. Clown slows much stronger. I do not deny that doctor needs to be polished. But your suggestions are not very good because you don't know it well.
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Its pretty easy to land actually. What mine does is make it harder to hit but 10x more rewarding and doesnt punish for missed hits. You can continue to go around and will eventually catch up like usual except you can end that chase quicker by trying to get them w shock at the same time.
With the teleport thing. It shouldnt be much of a problem, you can choose to snap out or not since you can work on gens at level 3 regardless. So if u snap out you wont need to worry about hallucinations. Also the game needs to be scarier. That would scare me if the hallucination came to life
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Yes, the cards are very large and when I get Ormond or Temple of purification - it's terrible. May need to stop releasing murderers and to deal with alteration cards. After the last update, they are terrible. I counted 18 pallets on Ormond and 18 on the Game. These maps are heavy for foot killers. And Yes for the Doctor because to embrace the madness there's a heavy task.
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New freddy should have a reduction on gen speeds by default when asleep i think. Also dream snares are underwhelming. At the same time most killers are underwhelming. My doctor is not underwhelming bc he can stop a loop, and can either gain map pressure or slow the game and its the survivors choice whether they give him one or the other. Similar to plagues broken forever or damaging vomit.
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No, no, and again no. The madness must remain as it is. Repair on 3 stage. NEVER. Quick repair of generators and so there. Madness must remain as it is. That makes the Doctor a Doctor . Teleportation won't do anything. You will not frighten anybody in this game except for the 20 grades.
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fearing change is a trait most have. I have explained how this would work multiple times. It would BUFF doctor and make him overall less annoying. How do you not like that? Fair for everyone whilst stronger.
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"It's only absurd if you're bad" lol that literally makes zero sense. You cannot prevent yourself from going into madness 3 if you're in a constant static field. It's really not THAT slow. You'd scream and then have to snap out of it every minute or so. Goodbye stealth completely. If you run it's even faster. It sounds like an absolutely miserable experience to play against an add on like this and it's pretty obvious the devs would never introduce something so unfun with zero counters.
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Just like with old Freddy, it seems the main problem is with you not knowing how to play the Doctor. He is definitely NOT weak and this is coming from a Doctor main who mastered him even before he got his Doctor Cube.
Yes, he could use some QoL buffs, like more default range in his shock (yellow Electrode-level at least) and maybe some buffs to his Add-ons, but I quite disagree with most of your proposed changes, except for the idea to teleport to his Hallucinations (which could be his second ultra rare).
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