Everyone's problem with SWF?
Best Answer
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oh i completely agree, and it makes me think that they will either exclude consoles from the ladder system, or make a swf penalty such as perk reduction.Mashtyx1 said:@Lowbei Understandable for pc as for your discord argument but on console the communication thing such as "party's" is built into the console and the development team knows this. Sure I can see it being a disadvantage but also an advantage as the killer because you can exploit it? I guess I'm trying to say I don't see communication being a good enough argument. Yes I've played killer I do a lot actually and I do find swf annoying but I seem to kill all of them because they are over altruistic and want to save their friends.
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you answered your own question, in the question itself, and you clearly are attempting to downplay communication by referencing totem placement which is probably the least benefit from it.Mashtyx1 said:I'd like to know. Is it because they can talk to each other about where your totem is or what?
in truth, you realize that it gives you the equivalent of about 6-7 perks without using them, such as bond and empathy, etc, not to mention that using a 3rd party non-whitelisted app (discord for example) to gain a big advantage, is the equivalent to cheating. you made this thread because someone pointed all this out, so you already knew the answer before posting this.
the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.9 -
SWF allows a large amount of coordination and teamwork not typically available in public games and it makes the already strong survivors that much more powerful. Being able to call out hex placements, killer locations, gen placements, it’s much easier to assist and heal each other when you’re not wondering around with no clue where your team is, or how about being able to tell your team the killers entire build and perk setup when you die, etc. The killer gets one person down and is patrolling the area? In a public Match you bet somebody will go for that save but SWF can just say “hey leave me and go finish gens” there’s just so many things that SWF breaks about the game I can’t put it all into one comment. PS I am not one of those people who claim SWF is pure trash and needs deletion, but I DO recognize how absurdly strong it is.Mashtyx1 said:I'd like to know. Is it because they can talk to each other about where your totem is or what?
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It's like a wallhack that's always active. If one sees the killer, everyone knows where the killer is, where he sets his traps, what perks he has, if he camps, if it's safe to do the gens in that area, who can come to unhook, into what direction he went, etc.3
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Most perks of the killers will be useless. For example: I hit you with Franklins EVERYONE knows I have franklins and then they’ll go pick up your item, Once someone dies they know if you have NOED and or blood warden. As for the rest of the HEX totems they are useless against SWF. Nurses calling, once one of them know you have it they ALL know. Oh and if you’re trapper or Hag and you place traps around a hooked person they ALL know about that too!1
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__Don't worry, the devs talked strongly on removing the ability to see the killer's perks if you're dead until the game is over. That's another annoying thing. HE HAS NOED, CLEANED ALL THE TOTEMS OR LEAVE. HE HAS BLOOD WARDEN TIER 3 DON'T STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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When did they mention possibly doing that? That would be wonderfulMrChills said:__Don't worry, the devs talked strongly on removing the ability to see the killer's perks if you're dead until the game is over. That's another annoying thing. HE HAS NOED, CLEANED ALL THE TOTEMS OR LEAVE. HE HAS BLOOD WARDEN TIER 3 DON'T STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@Lowbei Understandable for pc as for your discord argument but on console the communication thing such as "party's" is built into the console and the development team knows this. Sure I can see it being a disadvantage but also an advantage as the killer because you can exploit it? I guess I'm trying to say I don't see communication being a good enough argument. Yes I've played killer I do a lot actually and I do find swf annoying but I seem to kill all of them because they are over altruistic and want to save their friends.0
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Killers don't like SWF because they have a huge advantage of information compared to solos.
Some even go as far to classify it as cheating. I wouldn't go that far however I'm not denying that SWF does break the balance in this game somewhat.
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@Daniel101773 said:
MrChills said:__Don't worry, the devs talked strongly on removing the ability to see the killer's perks if you're dead until the game is over. That's another annoying thing. HE HAS NOED, CLEANED ALL THE TOTEMS OR LEAVE. HE HAS BLOOD WARDEN TIER 3 DON'T STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When did they mention possibly doing that? That would be wonderful
I would have to fin d the stream. it was one of the streams talking about DS
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@Mc_Harty I see it as an advantage but then I see people on YouTube such as Monto and TydeTyme and they can do almost if not everything a swf team can and it's just hard trying to understand why killers find it a problem when if a sole survivor can do it to with out the help of communication.0
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@Mashtyx1 said:
@Mc_Harty I see it as an advantage but then I see people on YouTube such as Monto and TydeTyme and they can do almost if not everything a swf team can and it's just hard trying to understand why killers find it a problem when if a sole survivor can do it to with out the help of communication.It depends on the SWF team really. Especially the troll or competitive groups. It gets tiring putting up with their antics.
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Monto & Tyde also literally play/stream the game for a living, have thousands of hours in this game and know all the in depth numbers and stats for every single perk, character & addon lolMashtyx1 said:@Mc_Harty I see it as an advantage but then I see people on YouTube such as Monto and TydeTyme and they can do almost if not everything a swf team can and it's just hard trying to understand why killers find it a problem when if a sole survivor can do it to with out the help of communication.1 -
the differenc is that most gamers dont just play one game, they play many. the streamers you mention only play dbd.Daniel101773 said:
Monto & Tyde also literally play/stream the game for a living, have thousands of hours in this game and know all the in depth numbers and stats for every single perk, character & addon lolMashtyx1 said:@Mc_Harty I see it as an advantage but then I see people on YouTube such as Monto and TydeTyme and they can do almost if not everything a swf team can and it's just hard trying to understand why killers find it a problem when if a sole survivor can do it to with out the help of communication.
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It replaces a lot perks like Bond, Empathy, Premonition etc. while killing any potential of Perks like Knockout, Third Seal, Bloodwarden, NOED.0
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Your basic thing here is that they can know your perks when guess what it honestly isn't that hard to figure out to begin with. (He hit me and I lost an item oh no rando finds item hey he must have Franklin's.) I'm saving someone off the hook oh the killer has dying light.(Game tells us.) Wait who cares about no ed when I know exactly how many totems there are and just take them all out >.>. Oh he must have nurses I'm healing and he came right here. Must have unrelenting his swings are quick. If you are a good enough killer what they know doesn't hinder your chances. And swf means nothing I have randoms with no communication who can coordinate with me no problems. It's honestly just a matter of using your own brain.3
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@Lowbei said:
...not to mention that using a 3rd party non-whitelisted app (discord for example) to gain a big advantage, is the equivalent to cheating. you made this thread because someone pointed all this out, so you already knew the answer before posting this.the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.
While everyone should agree that it is an unfair advantage, including the devs specifically stating that it is, the devs have also specifically stated in a dev stream that the use of comms is not cheating, and is allowed.
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againKaelum said:@Lowbei said:
...not to mention that using a 3rd party non-whitelisted app (discord for example) to gain a big advantage, is the equivalent to cheating. you made this thread because someone pointed all this out, so you already knew the answer before posting this.the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.
While everyone should agree that it is an unfair advantage, including the devs specifically stating that it is, the devs have also specifically stated in a dev stream that the use of comms is not cheating, and is allowed.
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”1 -
@Lowbei said:
again”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
That is a false statement, and has nothing at all to do with their reasoning. If you want more information, watch the dev stream yourself, and don’t ask me to point you to which one it is, it’s one of them since October 2017.
Detecting any application that is currently running, is an extremely simple task that requires very little effort. If BHVR wanted to eliminate the use of comms on PC, they could very easily do so. The fact remains that they believe that the use of comms is ok, even if it is unfair.
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@Mashtyx1 said:
I'd like to know. Is it because they can talk to each other about where your totem is or what?My ONLY issue with SWF is that it makes having the killers perks or add-ons being "secret" completely pointless. And lets be honest, If the killer could see everything all the survivors have after just one of them is sacrificed, there would be a riot lol! It gives SWF groups a clear advantage. The post game summary should only appear after the game has ended for everyone. Outside of that I don't see an issue with the survivors being able to socialize over the Mic. or spectate the rest of the match. Honestly, I won't play as survivor unless I'm in a swf group, its being able to socialize with friends while sharing the same game experience with them that makes playing survivor a fun experience for me.
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lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
again”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
That is a false statement, and has nothing at all to do with their reasoning. If you want more information, watch the dev stream yourself, and don’t ask me to point you to which one it is, it’s one of them since October 2017.
Detecting any application that is currently running, is an extremely simple task that requires very little effort. If BHVR wanted to eliminate the use of comms on PC, they could very easily do so. The fact remains that they believe that the use of comms is ok, even if it is unfair.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
this is why you have to install batteeye seperate in many games and click to sign a waiver for them to monitor the apps on your machine while you are playing.0 -
@ShesArebel88 said:
The post game summary should only appear after the game has ended for everyone.The devs have already stated that they are working on the hiding of the killers perks and addons until after the match has completed.
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@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
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you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.0 -
For giggles, i googled and pulled the top article about a similar issue. where EAs Origin, despite being a gaming software, was accused of illegally monitoring peoples PCs. This was just one of many examples, but according to you, they can just monitor your pc at any time lol. not even close dude.
rekt
for a "software engineer" you sure dont know much about software lol.
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If you're afraid of survivors, you have no business playing killer.2
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@MeatN2Vedge said:
If you're afraid of survivors, you have no business playing killer.If you rely on swf who cheat or cheat yourself using discord to inform others inside the game you have no business being a surv.
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@Tsulan said:
It's like a wallhack that's always active. If one sees the killer, everyone knows where the killer is, where he sets his traps, what perks he has, if he camps, if it's safe to do the gens in that area, who can come to unhook, into what direction he went, etc.Not to mentioen OoO in a SWF.....
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you can't force them to make a mistake as they just communicate everything you are doing...
if one sees your totem, they all know where it is
if you try to 3 gen they distract and 3 man one gen and just keep doing that till it pops.
communication is just to strong for a game built like this. any and all things a killer can do are countered with a simple killer did x and is going y
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@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe me2 -
@Lowbei you obviously don’t even understand the article that you posted, which has absolutely no bearing on any of my statements. Then again, you know absolutely nothing about how a computer OS works, and for some reason you are fixated on a scorecard in all of your discussions. Since you are doing nothing but trolling, it is time for me to stop feeding you. Have fun with your pitiful life under the bridge, but this conversation is at an end.
P.S. Don’t forget to post your follow-up, to ensure that you always get the last word.
Post edited by Kaelum on4 -
@MeatN2Vedge said:
If you're afraid of survivors, you have no business playing killer.We're talking about the imbalance provided by SWF voice comms. Were you confused?
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@Master said:
@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe meThere is a section in the TOS that states any interference with a players ability to enjoy a "service", meaning the game itself, is a banable offense. They are not enforcing this. Discord clearly interferes with a players ability to enjoy the "service". The devs choose to ignore this. I call it selective hearing. Only choosing to hear what you want to.
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@Envees said:
@Master said:
@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe meThere is a section in the TOS that states any interference with a players ability to enjoy a "service", meaning the game itself, is a banable offense. They are not enforcing this. Discord clearly interferes with a players ability to enjoy the "service". The devs choose to ignore this. I call it selective hearing. Only choosing to hear what you want to.
The devs dont ignore this, they actually put voice comms like discord/ts on the whitelist. There has been a post in the old forum where this was discussed.
Whether you like it or not, its pretty clear what the TOS state^^Oh and btw, for some reason the "whitelist" doesnt actually exist, the devs were too lazy to create such a list, you need to go through the posts and search for stuff like that^^
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Communication, cause it's just straight up cheating.
Bear Traps are revealed to all if 1 spots them, Phantasm Traps are revealed to all if 1 spots them, Hex Totems are revealed to all if 1 spots them, Object of Obsession is now free and doesn't have a negative, Bond is now free, Empathy is now free, Kindred is now free, using Insidious for camping is impossible, they'll tell others what Add-ons and Perks you run once they're dead (Yes, i know they want to remove this, but they've made empty promises before, so i'm not counting on it.), they can tell eachother who's the Obsession and, additionally, if they're affected by Dying Light.
The devs want to buff solo Survivors to be as good in a place as SWF Survivors.
Yeah, that's never gonna happen, for they'd have to destroy the entire concept of numerous Perks.Yes, the devs don't view communication as cheating.
And yes, i'll keep viewing it as cheating.0 -
@Kaelum said:
@ShesArebel88 said:
The post game summary should only appear after the game has ended for everyone.The devs have already stated that they are working on the hiding of the killers perks and addons until after the match has completed.
Nice! Thanks for letting me know 😊
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You do realise that even without swf in game people can still create parties with the lobby and do the same especially if by chance they got put in a lobby with people they know.0
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Not a lot of people do it now but if swf wasnt in the game more people would do it1
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It seems to me they tried to make this game that should’ve been an online multiplayer experience into basically an online single player experience then when people wanted an actual multiplayer experience the devs threw in swf which of course hurts their online single player game1
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I think it's the over all mentality of most that play swf. Only going in to try an bully. On the same note solo is get the gens get out period. Imo swf would be a lot more fun an challenging if it would be possible to make the mics only work so many meters away. Also if the killer was in that meter range they could hear muffled speech like injuries. Would never happen if it was possible, but would be cool an make for some awesome matches.0
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The main issue with SWF is the fact that communication can make you to optimize the plays. "The killer is going at X, the totem is at X, The killer is Myers, he's stalking X, the killer is camping/not camping, do gens/save me"
A lot of edges in the game for killers are earned via the lack of communication of survivors, making them to go as multiple person for the saves, or not going for the save at all. With comm, you can just reduce/nullify these "mistakes" and play accordingling the whole round with ease.
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@Mc_Harty said:
Killers don't like SWF because they have a huge advantage of information compared to solos.Some even go as far to classify it as cheating. I wouldn't go that far however I'm not denying that SWF does break the balance in this game somewhat.
How can you make the statement that you did, yet not classify it as cheating? (HUGE ADVANTAGE that wasn't intended in the game) Dude, its ok to think its cheating and still do it.
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