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Everyone's problem with SWF?
Answers
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@Kaelum said:
@Lowbei said:
again”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
That is a false statement, and has nothing at all to do with their reasoning. If you want more information, watch the dev stream yourself, and don’t ask me to point you to which one it is, it’s one of them since October 2017.
Detecting any application that is currently running, is an extremely simple task that requires very little effort. If BHVR wanted to eliminate the use of comms on PC, they could very easily do so. The fact remains that they believe that the use of comms is ok, even if it is unfair.
That is incorrect as well, yes telling what is running on a computer is easy to do, it doesn't mean that BHVR HAS THE RIGHT to invade your privacy that way. Since the comms do nothing directly to the game files they are in fact undetectable to BHVR.
They DO NOT THINK COMMS are ok, they are forced to accept that they can do crap all about them. And therefore haven't blacklisted them, but neither have they whilelisted them. Which means they ARE NOT accepted as apps that ARE COOL with DbD.
And if ever some magical means of detecting comms and mlga should surface and the anticheat method can identify who is using them, they would have the right to ban people for using them.
Whether or not that's a smart business move is up to them, but according to their list of permanent bannable offenses, they would the the right to if they so chose.
In regards to their statements in your recommended dev stream, they are forced to say they consider comms not cheating... why you might ask? Because they CANNOT stop them, and to admit there is cheating going on in the game that they can do nothing about is just bad. It leaves an air in incompetence around the devs.
But I can bet you this, if there was a magical statement they could add to their code, to shut off in game communications other then prior and post game chat, they would implement it in a second.
The communication ruins the experience for many dbd players, survivor and killer included.
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@Master said:
@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe meIt all boils down to this! ^^^
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@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
We'll just agree to disagree, I see any advantage over another player as cheating, and you see it as the other guy just needing to get gud and counter the advantage you are somehow getting without cheating
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@not_QueenMaster said:@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe meAgain, people are insinuating players will be banned for using Discord. Please confirm so we may move on from this idiotic topic.0 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
Voice comm programms are whitelisted, i.e. while they give you an unfair advantage, it is "accepted cheating"
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@Visionmaker said:
Master said:@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:
@Lowbei said: lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe me
Again, people are insinuating players will be banned for using Discord. Please confirm so we may move on from this idiotic topic.
Sorry, but I cant remember the link and the first time I did the research it took ages to find it
Believe me on that point or look it up in the old forum, the threads shoudl still exist0 -
No I'm not confused. My point is: if you're playing killer the survivors should be meat to you no matter what advantages they might have. Don't play killer if you're afraid of people communicating, simple as that. Killers aren't cowards, and I'd like to keep it that way.Orion said:@MeatN2Vedge said:
If you're afraid of survivors, you have no business playing killer.We're talking about the imbalance provided by SWF voice comms. Were you confused?
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Did the devs ever say why they designed the game without swf in mind?0
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@Outland said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
We'll just agree to disagree, I see any advantage over another player as cheating, and you see it as the other guy just needing to get gud and counter the advantage you are somehow getting without cheating
I play on Xbox. I own a Astro a50's and an Elite. I can hear better and perform better than ANY other player that doesn't have those. In Halo 5, for example, I can do any action without taking my thumbs off the sticks. In Gears of War 4, I can hear the most minute noises all around me. These 2 things give me a HUGE advantage in online games.
Are Astro's or an Elite controller cheating? No. Voice comms is in the same category. An advantage is not always cheating.
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They are not cheating as all players can buy the exact same products and therefore have the same advantage.
The killer however cannot ever gain the same advantage that you have by using your comms. So there again you are cheating.
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LOL the irony that what you said agreed with me but you were not capable of understanding it.Master said:@Lowbei said:
Kaelum said:@Lowbei said:
lol no and the ignorance you just spouted was hilarious.
they literally dont have the technology nor the legal ability to do what youve stated.
Careful @Lowbei, your ignorance is showing. I am a software engineer and from any application I write, I can detect every other running application on the system. Your knowledge of “technology” appears to be extremely limited, and laughable. “legal ability”? Really? ROFL!
you are either lying or hilariously ignorant.
by your logic, no hacks would ever exist since they can just be detected. i guess blizzard and treyarch and bhvr etc are just lazy and havent heard about hacks /sarcasm
a company does not have the legal ability to monitor all apps on your pc. period. this isnt rocket science. they can only legally detect software that affects their game. this is why mlga was unwhitelisted, but not blacklisted, because it cannot be detected.
you lose, try again.
Pls stop talking about sth you dont understand.
Also there only is a list of whitelisted programms, if that programm is not on the whitelist, then it is a bannable offense using it to gain an advantage over other players. That literally stands in the TOS, look it up if you dont believe me
3rd party comm apps are not whitelisted, and neither is MLGA, and the devs know that both are commonly used with their game.
try again.0 -
you are no software engineer scrub, else you wouldnt have embarrassed yourself by getting rekt by a basic google search.Kaelum said:@Lowbei you obviously don’t even understand the article that you posted, which has absolutely no bearing on any of my statements. Then again, you know absolutely nothing about how a computer OS works, and for some reason you are fixated on a scorecard in all of your discussions. Since you are doing nothing but trolling, it is time for me to stop feeding you. Have fun with your pitiful life under the bridge, but this conversation is at an end.
P.S. Don’t forget to post your follow-up, to ensure that you always get the last word.
you clearly got rekt by what i posted and make zero attempt to argue it while you plug your fingers in your ears and say NahNahNah,
you are welcome for me informing you about how games work with an operating system.
thats right, you may now leave out of shame and embarrassment. dont come back, gg
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they are not whitelisted.Master said:@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
Voice comm programms are whitelisted, i.e. while they give you an unfair advantage, it is "accepted cheating"
what this all boils down into is that voice comms are “acceptable cheating”.
everyone already understands this. its only the baddie survivor main trash that attempt to defend it, and its obvious that its allowed only because they can do nothing about it, just like MLGA.
defending voice comms because you bads cant compete without a 3rd party app advantage is just embarrassing yourself.
/thread0 -
@Outland said:
How can you make the statement that you did, yet not classify it as cheating? (HUGE ADVANTAGE that wasn't intended in the game) Dude, its ok to think its cheating and still do it.
If the devs allow voice coms...then its not cheating is it? Regardless of the reason. Otherwise everyone would have been disqualified from the official tournament for using coms.
Everybody knows that Voice chat provides an advantage. Everyone knows that it breaks the balance of the game. Nobody is that stupid to claim otherwise.
You cannot call it cheating because you think its unfair. Only the devs can. And last I check they are balancing the game towards survivors with voice chat.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Outland said:
How can you make the statement that you did, yet not classify it as cheating? (HUGE ADVANTAGE that wasn't intended in the game) Dude, its ok to think its cheating and still do it.
If the devs allow voice coms...then its not cheating is it? Regardless of the reason. Otherwise everyone would have been disqualified from the official tournament for using coms.
Everybody knows that Voice chat provides an advantage. Everyone knows that it breaks the balance of the game. Nobody is that stupid to claim otherwise.
You cannot call it cheating because you think its unfair. Only the devs can. And last I check they are balancing the game towards survivors with voice chat.
They are balancing the game around voice chat????? What magic 8 ball have you got? I've heard no such thing.
Again you and I have been over this, if the comms are on the whitelist they are not cheating and I'll admit it and even inform others when the question is raised. But until I see a whitelist with comms on it, then that advantage is unfair over another player, and is a candidate for permanent banning. As per BVHR's own documentation.
And if its a candidate for permanent banning it sure sounds like cheating to me.
Anyways you have said your bit and I have said mine. You and I will just be on the opposite side of this until BHVR gives us that whitelist with comms on it.
Cheers man, good luck in the fog.
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You are wasting your time using logic on these scrubs. They know that using 3rd party apps to create an advantage is, by definition, cheating.Outland said:They are not cheating as all players can buy the exact same products and therefore have the same advantage.
The killer however cannot ever gain the same advantage that you have by using your comms. So there again you are cheating.
They are rank20 bads who are embarrassed about the concept that they cant compete without cheating, and will always argue despite knowing how pathetic they look.
ggs0 -
@Outland said:
They are balancing the game around voice chat????? What magic 8 ball have you got? I've heard no such thing.They are balancing around SWF groups?
The same groups that use voicechat?
Did we forget that?
Cheers man, good luck in the fog.
You too. Wish the ######### devs were clear on this.
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Voice coms is flat out cheating nobody can argue with that keeping a straight face. Devs can't stop people using discord though the only thing the devs can do is remove SWF and personally I think that's as close as we can get to nerfing coms.
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And we all know removing swf isn’t an optionChraizE said:Voice coms is flat out cheating nobody can argue with that keeping a straight face. Devs can't stop people using discord though the only thing the devs can do is remove SWF and personally I think that's as close as we can get to nerfing coms.
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@Outland said:
They are not cheating as all players can buy the exact same products and therefore have the same advantage.The killer however cannot ever gain the same advantage that you have by using your comms. So there again you are cheating.
Just like all players can set up a Discord and/or put the info in their steam profile. Or are you going to to some mental gymnastics to tell me no now LOL.
@Lowbei LOL complaining about something, guess you need this...
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
They are not cheating as all players can buy the exact same products and therefore have the same advantage.The killer however cannot ever gain the same advantage that you have by using your comms. So there again you are cheating.
Just like all players can set up a Discord and/or put the info in their steam profile. Or are you going to to some mental gymnastics to tell me no now LOL.
The Killer cannot setup discord to give them the same advantage that the survivors have. No gymnastics needed my friend just common sense.
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@Outland think about it. 2 or more people playing SWF who are also in the same room, talking on the phone, or using any other method of communication. There is no possible way that BHVR could control any of that. If they were stupid enough to try putting any of that in their EULA, those sections would be invalidated by every court on this planet. BHVR has said over and over that comms are an unfair advantage, but their use is not bannable, as it is impossible (illegal in most cases) to control communications between players.
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The game came out with the core idea that the survivors are strangers to each other and do not know each other. Therefore they were given limited ways to communicate (point, come here, ect) and the game was balanced with this in mind.
However, the call to let people play with friends was too strong and SWF was added. However, it messed with the game's balance as pointed out repeatedly above for reasons I don't need to repeat.
Now the devs are slowly retuning the game to keep this in mind by adding things that give Solo players almost the same level of information and balancing around that instead.
But yes, SWF gives a level of co-ordination that the game was never designed to take in the first place - it fundamentally breaks the balance of the game.
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It is sad that people use swf to hurt the game. I love this game because I can play it with my best friend, and that is what got me into the game, that I am now obsessed with. We are on ps4, but have never talked as a party in it. It is a horror game, and I love being scared when I run into a trap or someone has monitor.... Without the scare factor, it is just a game about over and over repairing generators, and that sounds, well.....
I play single, maybe 60% of the time, but I really would hate to lose the swf time I have with my friend.
As a killer, I know these groups that take advantage, and they really take alot of the fun from playing killer. But then again, a troll will be a troll no matter if they are alone or not.
Hopefully the part about making killers perks a secret will happen, I think that could change alot.
But it doesnt really matter what game you play, there will always be people out there who tries to ruin it. Sad really, because it is good fun playing with your friends in dbd.0 -
lol git gud and you wont need a 3rd party tool to gain an advantage0
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@Lowbei said:
Master said:@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
Voice comm programms are whitelisted, i.e. while they give you an unfair advantage, it is "accepted cheating"
they are not whitelisted.
what this all boils down into is that voice comms are “acceptable cheating”.
everyone already understands this. its only the baddie survivor main trash that attempt to defend it, and its obvious that its allowed only because they can do nothing about it, just like MLGA.
defending voice comms because you bads cant compete without a 3rd party app advantage is just embarrassing yourself.
/thread
I am a killer main btw, I did the research in the old forum and asked mods whether voicecomms are whitelisted or not. I know the answer, if you dont believe me, go ahead and do your own research
Sure, you can go ahead and report any SWF for cheating, but you do realize that exactly this flooding of reports makes the report systems utterly useles?
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its “acceptable cheating” so why would anyone report a swf?Master said:@Lowbei said:
Master said:@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
Voice comm programms are whitelisted, i.e. while they give you an unfair advantage, it is "accepted cheating"
they are not whitelisted.
what this all boils down into is that voice comms are “acceptable cheating”.
everyone already understands this. its only the baddie survivor main trash that attempt to defend it, and its obvious that its allowed only because they can do nothing about it, just like MLGA.
defending voice comms because you bads cant compete without a 3rd party app advantage is just embarrassing yourself.
/thread
I am a killer main btw, I did the research in the old forum and asked mods whether voicecomms are whitelisted or not. I know the answer, if you dont believe me, go ahead and do your own research
Sure, you can go ahead and report any SWF for cheating, but you do realize that exactly this flooding of reports makes the report systems utterly useles?
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@Kaelum said:
@Outland think about it. 2 or more people playing SWF who are also in the same room, talking on the phone, or using any other method of communication. There is no possible way that BHVR could control any of that. If they were stupid enough to try putting any of that in their EULA, those sections would be invalidated by every court on this planet. BHVR has said over and over that comms are an unfair advantage, but their use is not bannable, as it is impossible (illegal in most cases) to control communications between players.Yeah man,I agree with what you said BHVR doesnt call it cheating because they know they can do NOTHING about it, and to call it cheating for them makes them look bad. But by their definition of things that could be permabanned, this exact thing fits the description.
BHVR could clear this up entirely by adding Discord to some published whitelist, so people would be forced to accept that YES BHVR has whitelisted Discord.... but that just isnt the case.
Its one of those, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then goddammit IT IS A DUCK.
So UNFAIR advantage over another player fits the definition of cheating, so logically until someone states that Discord is whitelisted, IT IS CHEATING, and thats not only in my eyes, but most every Killer out there.
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its “acceptable cheating” used by those who need a crutch to play.Outland said:@Kaelum said:
@Outland think about it. 2 or more people playing SWF who are also in the same room, talking on the phone, or using any other method of communication. There is no possible way that BHVR could control any of that. If they were stupid enough to try putting any of that in their EULA, those sections would be invalidated by every court on this planet. BHVR has said over and over that comms are an unfair advantage, but their use is not bannable, as it is impossible (illegal in most cases) to control communications between players.Yeah man,I agree with what you said BHVR doesnt call it cheating because they know they can do NOTHING about it, and to call it cheating for them makes them look bad. But by their definition of things that could be permabanned, this exact thing fits the description.
BHVR could clear this up entirely by adding Discord to some published whitelist, so people would be forced to accept that YES BHVR has whitelisted Discord.... but that just isnt the case.
Its one of those, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then goddammit IT IS A DUCK.
So UNFAIR advantage over another player fits the definition of cheating, so logically until someone states that Discord is whitelisted, IT IS CHEATING, and thats not only in my eyes, but most every Killer out there.
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At the end of the day, most can agree that SWF fundamentally breaks the balance of the game, regardless of whether you call it cheating or not. The game was clearly not designed for the use of comms and they obviously provide an unfair advantage. If the devs whitelisted comms, none of that would change. SWF would still be broken and the imbalance it causes would still be there. If the use of comms isn't whitelisted, then it should be considered by everyone as cheating but the devs have shown no signs of doing anything about it. If the devs do whitelist it, it's bad game design on their part and it would still be broken and unfair for the killer. Either way, it's imbalanced and something should be done about it. There's not much use arguing about whether it falls into cheating or not since comms most likely aren't going anywhere regardless.
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Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Envees said:
Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.There's no way to remove coms because SWF squads use Discord or Skype or whatever to talk to each other.
I am aware of this. They would resort to using their phones in a desperate attempt to maintain their advantage. Sad.
I also know that swf is going nowhere, barring some miracle. Dev's need to address this imbalance. New people come and go but the difference is that new people sometimes stay gone when they realize how much cheating is really going on and how the devs are doing next to nothing about it. Those are lost sales. Very few people buy games with all DLC attached. In this game the money is now from DLC and cosmetics. Base-game can be had for 7 pounds at times.
Remove swf from ranked. In a game where people cheat with voip there is no room in ranked for them. Cheaters need to have their own non-ranked games.
What i would love to see is the removal of swf as well as coms for one month. Then compare kill ratios to the previous two years.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Envees said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@Envees said:
Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.There's no way to remove coms because SWF squads use Discord or Skype or whatever to talk to each other.
I am aware of this. They would resort to using their phones in a desperate attempt to maintain their advantage. Sad.
I also know that swf is going nowhere, barring some miracle. Dev's need to address this imbalance. New people come and go but the difference is that new people sometimes stay gone when they realize how much cheating is really going on and how the devs are doing next to nothing about it. Those are lost sales. Very few people buy games with all DLC attached. In this game the money is now from DLC and cosmetics. Base-game can be had for 7 pounds at times.
Remove swf from ranked. In a game where people cheat with voip there is no room in ranked for them. Cheaters need to have their own non-ranked games.
What i would love to see is the removal of swf as well as coms for one month. Then compare kill ratios to the previous two years.
They won't do that either because (1) Survivor mains will ree about it in a way we haven't seen before and (2) it would lead to longer ques and wait times for matches.
The only to fix it is to balance the game for SWF. The Killer should get something when an SWF squad joins to even the odds.
I would not be interested in BP as has been stated by many others before i came to that conclusion. How do you even begin to address the advantage that coms provide? Look at how many perks coms nullify?
For the devs to assume that nobody would use coms with their friends was a major flaw in the development cycle and shows how inept they really are. The fact that we are still talking about this two years later also shows where their priority are. DLC/cosmetics over addressing problems with this game.
At this point no amount of talking about this is going to make killers' complaints any better or they would have done it already. They cant fix their game and each additional DLC/killer/surv with new perks will only further cement the problems deeper into the game. Its a lost cause.
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@Envees said:
Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.People are social beeings and they just want to talk with their friends while playing a game together. They are not using Coms with the intend to "cheat". They use it to be social. And yes they take their advantage from it, but this game would die, if with Comms the social aspekt of SWF would go away.
And by the way, bad survivors with Coms are still bad survivor. If they fall fast in a chase, comms won't save them and their team. Of course sharing information gives them an advantage, but in my experience a good survivor has a natural awareness when it's safe to do a gen, or where the killer is. I rarely rely on my mates and what they are saying. And even, if I don't know where the killer is headed, I would still have SB, or a safe spot close by.
I personally don't think that SWF is the main problem of this games. The only reason, while Solo Survivor teams are doing horrible, is because you can easily run into surviors, that don't play as a team. They reckles farm others, sandbag, play only with the hatch in mind etc. Stuff you can avoid with SWF, of course.
But even with four randoms that have at least an idea of what they are doing, a killer would have a bad time, because of the imbalance and might even assume they are SWF. Believe me I played with randoms, that played quite decent. And you barely see a difference then in performance.1 -
Well saidFreudentrauma said:@Envees said:
Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.People are social beeings and they just want to talk with their friends while playing a game together. They are not using Coms with the intend to "cheat". They use it to be social. And yes they take their advantage from it, but this game would die, if with Comms the social aspekt of SWF would go away.
And by the way, bad survivors with Coms are still bad survivor. If they fall fast in a chase, comms won't save them and their team. Of course sharing information gives them an advantage, but in my experience a good survivor has a natural awareness when it's safe to do a gen, or where the killer is. I rarely rely on my mates and what they are saying. And even, if I don't know where the killer is headed, I would still have SB, or a safe spot close by.
I personally don't think that SWF is the main problem of this games. The only reason, while Solo Survivor teams are doing horrible, is because you can easily run into surviors, that don't play as a team. They reckles farm others, sandbag, play only with the hatch in mind etc. Stuff you can avoid with SWF, of course.
But even with four randoms that have at least an idea of what they are doing, a killer would have a bad time, because of the imbalance and might even assume they are SWF. Believe me I played with randoms, that played quite decent. And you barely see a difference then in performance.0 -
Effectively rendering many killer perks useless and making the game twice as fast as it normally would be so yeah you can try to justify the social side behind it but it still is technically cheating. There are no coms in game a reason which is why you are forced to use third party apps to use coms in game. It gives the survivors an unfair advantage there's no way anybody can debate that keeping a straight face.
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I like swf😊1
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Lowbei said:
its “acceptable cheating” so why would anyone report a swf?Master said:@Lowbei said:
Master said:@thesuicidefox said:
@Lowbei said:
”the reason its not blacklisted is because its undetectable, which is the same reason that MLGA isnt blacklisted either.”
blacklisting something they cant detect would just make them look stupid. thus, they were forced to state that its not cheating, despite the fact that its a non-whitelisted 3rd party app that gives an advantage, which is literally the definition of cheating.
by your logic, hacks that are not detectable are “not cheating”
The difference is that, if you can prove someone was hacking they will get banned, but if you can prove someone was on discord they don't get banned.
I don't care what you say, voice comms is not cheating. It gives you an advantage yes, but that's as far as it goes.
Voice comm programms are whitelisted, i.e. while they give you an unfair advantage, it is "accepted cheating"
they are not whitelisted.
what this all boils down into is that voice comms are “acceptable cheating”.
everyone already understands this. its only the baddie survivor main trash that attempt to defend it, and its obvious that its allowed only because they can do nothing about it, just like MLGA.
defending voice comms because you bads cant compete without a 3rd party app advantage is just embarrassing yourself.
/thread
I am a killer main btw, I did the research in the old forum and asked mods whether voicecomms are whitelisted or not. I know the answer, if you dont believe me, go ahead and do your own research
Sure, you can go ahead and report any SWF for cheating, but you do realize that exactly this flooding of reports makes the report systems utterly useles?
I don't know whether there is someone that reports for SWF, but I guess there are some people out there just like those that report for camp and tunneling
Im sure I have gathered hundreds of reports like this during my killer career, but nothing happened so far because reports don't do anything0 -
I had another thought on how to handle SWF, and posted it here:
SWF: +1 Global Perk for each additional SWF member
It would be fairly simple to implement, and would even up the odds.
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Completely breaks the already bad balance of the game. I used to play SWF all the time but then it just got way too easy. My friends felt the same way.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Envees said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@Envees said:
Remove coms by blacklisting them and watch how many people start to suck as surv and watch how many mediocre killers become better. Watch how the cheating swf crews quit. This is why they will never remove swf and they will never penalize the group that has the potential to buy the most DLC/cosmetics. Not removing swf/coms is purely a financial decision.There's no way to remove coms because SWF squads use Discord or Skype or whatever to talk to each other.
I am aware of this. They would resort to using their phones in a desperate attempt to maintain their advantage. Sad.
I also know that swf is going nowhere, barring some miracle. Dev's need to address this imbalance. New people come and go but the difference is that new people sometimes stay gone when they realize how much cheating is really going on and how the devs are doing next to nothing about it. Those are lost sales. Very few people buy games with all DLC attached. In this game the money is now from DLC and cosmetics. Base-game can be had for 7 pounds at times.
Remove swf from ranked. In a game where people cheat with voip there is no room in ranked for them. Cheaters need to have their own non-ranked games.
What i would love to see is the removal of swf as well as coms for one month. Then compare kill ratios to the previous two years.
They won't do that either because (1) Survivor mains will ree about it in a way we haven't seen before and (2) it would lead to longer ques and wait times for matches.
The only to fix it is to balance the game for SWF. The Killer should get something when an SWF squad joins to even the odds.
I do not buy that que times would get longer for anyone but the SWF. Basically the Killer would all go where there is no SWF. Once SWF realized that no Killers actually want to play their version of the game, They will either stop playing or solo que like the game was designed.
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@Outland said:
I do not buy that que times would get longer for anyone but the SWF. Basically the Killer would all go where there is no SWF. Once SWF realized that no Killers actually want to play their version of the game, They will either stop playing or solo que like the game was designed.Before SWF was implemented in the game people tried to get into the same lobby by searching at the same time and leaving lobbies, when it didn't happened. If killers were allowed to opt-out swf, people will return to this behaviour trying to play with their friends. And that would turn matchmaking into a nightmare. More broken lobbies and expand waiting times.
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@Freudentrauma said:
@Outland said:
I do not buy that que times would get longer for anyone but the SWF. Basically the Killer would all go where there is no SWF. Once SWF realized that no Killers actually want to play their version of the game, They will either stop playing or solo que like the game was designed.Before SWF was implemented in the game people tried to get into the same lobby by searching at the same time and leaving lobbies, when it didn't happened. If killers were allowed to opt-out swf, people will return to this behaviour trying to play with their friends. And that would turn matchmaking into a nightmare. More broken lobbies and expand waiting times.
But rather than fixing the imbalance that swf using coms has on the game we get DLC after DLC and now even cosmetics. Face it. The devs have NO INTENTION OF BALANCING THE GAME. They say they do but their actions speak louder than words.
4 more killers to come, 4 more survs to come. Do you honestly think this is going to solve anything? I think it will just provide more headaches as they attempt to balance things but fail miserably.
2 years of running in circles. Maps have fundamentally not changed. Killers are still running in benny hill circles whether there are 30 pallets like there used to be or the now more acceptable 15. We are still running in circles.
How have they tried to nullify 2 or more swf using coms? What have they done? I cant think of one single thing they have done to nullify swf using coms. Not one iota.
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@Freudentrauma said:
@Outland said:
I do not buy that que times would get longer for anyone but the SWF. Basically the Killer would all go where there is no SWF. Once SWF realized that no Killers actually want to play their version of the game, They will either stop playing or solo que like the game was designed.Before SWF was implemented in the game people tried to get into the same lobby by searching at the same time and leaving lobbies, when it didn't happened. If killers were allowed to opt-out swf, people will return to this behaviour trying to play with their friends. And that would turn matchmaking into a nightmare. More broken lobbies and expand waiting times.
I'm willing to risk it, as all the work goes from me dodging as a Killer to waiting for people to fill my lobby. Less work for me.
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