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Perks shouldn't be tied to DLC Characters
Comments
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@LordGlint Yeah, the Overwatch ranking system was one of the few things I felt that that game did right. At least before RoleQ. Now it's all over the place and as much of a mess as ranks here in DbD.
Overwatch also banned you for intentionally de-ranking if they caught you. You wouldn't dare see an Overwatch streamer intentionally de-ranking on their streams. Especially when Blizzard has banned people like xQc simply for toxic behavior in matches. Behavior that they easily caught after he was reported thanks to the fact that he streamed it.
Want to de-rank in DbD? No problem. Some of the bigger Fog Whisperers even do it live on stream and chuckle about it.
Gold used to be the average in Overwatch. Past few seasons, Jeff said it was high gold to mid-plat. Though thanks to the cluster **** that is RoleQ, I expect the average to easily drop back to around mid-gold.
Not that I'll follow it to know. Overwatch and Bnet are uninstalled, and I can't see me giving Blizzard another shot. Damned shame, because I was a Blizzard player for 25 years, ever since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans way back in 1994.
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Ive only logged onto Overwatch a handful of times this past year, so dont really know much about the roleQ thing (I have a tendency to stick with 1 game for long periods of time). I DID see that they restricted it to 222 though. While I can understand having a tank and healer is nice, and it sucks to have a team of 6 DPS... I think taking control out of the hands of the players on what comp they want to run wasnt a good idea.
Ranking though was set up well. I was Diamond when I stopped playing, meaning while I was good... There was still room to improve and my rank reflected it. I wasnt gonna randomly be placed with or against top 500 players. Thats not really the case with DBD. Here, so many ppl hit top ranks due to how often youll pip vs how often youll depip on any given game. Rank 1 in DBD feels like if they threw everyone that was in Mid-plat and up all together. The depip and DC issues are also handled quite differently, although DBD IS about to implement a new system for DCes.
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@LordGlint Yeah, RoleQ is forced 2-2-2 in both Comp and Quick Play. The wife and I played mostly Supports, so unlike DPS our queues were fast, and we absolutely hated RoleQ. It's just so boring. Especially with the meta in Comp and Quick Play (yes, it has a meta now) being a double-barrier of Orisa-Reinhardt or Orisa-Sigma (the new shield tank).
Double Barrier 8 out of 10 matches, I kid you not. It's boring as all hell.
So, we moved on. Her to Roblox with the 9-year-old; me to DbD and F13.
And we started Overwatch on launch day.
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"eventually"
You are aware that some perks like BBQ&C nearly never appear in the shrine? BBQ&C appears 3 times in total since release. And between the first and second time was a time span of over 1 year. So please, stop joking. The shrine is not good. It needs a rework.
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You are part of the reason why the gaming industry is so F'ed up nowadays.
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Paying money for a dlc just because of a perk and not the actual character is simply stupid and p2w
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I played it on and off since launch. While I can generally agree to their balancing, I feel like alot of their changes was them trying to change the meta as opposed to actual balance. Players experiment and find counters and synergies for different comps, so the devs go in with a nerf bat to shake it up.
I use to be a 1 trick Mercy main and would carry the usual group Id play with pretty well. Once Mercy got her Ult changed, so many ppl got on this bandwagon of wanting her nerfed into oblivion just so they didnt have to see her anymore, as opposed to putting her in a balanced position and equally useful when compared to the other main healers at the time. The devs didnt know what to do. If they left her with her rez, nothing they changed about her could quiet the crowds of ppl demanding nerfs. Shes now in a position where she doesnt put out enough healing to compare to the other "main healers", while being unable to multitask like the side healers.
I once joked that they could restrict her to never being allowed to leave spawn as a way of balancing her for her rez, and ppl would still complain that shes technically unkillable...
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Why because I have two nickles to rub together?
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The shift your seeing is due to developers putting additional work into a single game, rather than just moving onto the next. If the devs couldnt make anymore money from this game with scheduled DLCs, they wouldnt put anymore work into the title. Instead, youd just see a new DBD every year or 2 with an endless supply of sequels instead of DLCs like devs use to do in the past.
A quick thought for ya... Imagine if instead of 3 years of DBD, The devs instead just made 3 DBDs with all the characters and perks being split up and a new game each year. Would this be better? This was pretty much how the industry functioned in years past.
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Dude chill. It can be a bit frustrating for people that they can't get certain strong perks because they don't want to buy the dlc character. Not everyone has the money to spend on multiple dlc characters. And waiting for a certain perk to appear on the shrine is incredibly unreliable, now that we have so many different perks.
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@LordGlint Going to reply to two of your posts here, one to me and one to Justarandy
An original Mercy main, huh? I played DPS during that era (76 and Junkrat), but I truly felt for you guys. They screwed Mercy, several times, six ways from Sunday. My (now) 19-year-old daughter was our Mercy main back then in our six-stack. She stopped playing OW after the first Mercy rework and never returned.
How they handled Mercy was my first, solid clue that Kaplan and Goodman learned nothing from their years in WoW and the cancelled Project Titan MMO. Geoff Goodman, the head of balance in OW, handled balance in WoW back when we had full talent trees and whatnot. He could not balance worth a damn, and did hot-and-cold running class reworks constantly. And made it even worse.
Sound familiar?
Jeff Kaplan used to play EQ1 on my server before he landed a job at Blizzard. He used to throw temper tantrums at the Devs on the forums constantly, and if his guild didn't get a World First for new content, he would throw a tantrum and hold "guild sit downs," bringing a mess of people to a single area to crash the servers.
Kaplan, even back then, swung from the scrotum of the top players, but could never get into their circle.
He still swings from it as the Game Lead for Overwatch, and it shows.
As for your other post: Well, Behavior honestly doesn't have a choice except doubling down on DbD and making it financially successful through any means necessary. Whatever amount they've dumped into Deathgarden has utterly failed: twice, now.
DbD is really the only cash cow they have to milk, and I'm sure they would also like to recoup some of that Deathgarden and Deathgarden: Bloodharvest investment. Which is why I am keeping a very critical eye on what they're doing as far as DLCs and Battlepasses. Right now, it's fine by my personal standards (you pointing things out to me earlier helped a lot), but it can just as easily cross my line.
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love all the people who fill out the id10t form in full.
by this logic no game should ever have new content or else it’s p2w.
wow is p2w pso p2w final fantasy 11 and 14 are p2w following this path into the brick wall.
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While I can understand frustration regarding the shrine, how many DLCs are you buying to fill out a perk build? The base game is very fairly priced compared to other games out there, and if you only spend money on what your going to use or what you cant get via shards (like licensed characters)...its still a pretty reasonable deal.
The problem Im seeing is people unable to see that the DLC offered gives ALOT of new content since the games release. Ppl like to add up the total cost of all DLC, without remember that they're getting several games worth of content from that DLC. Just like you might not be able to afford DBD2 atm, being pissed because they instead of creating a separate game, decided to offer the content as DLC...is silly.
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@LordGlint I don't know that a DLC is giving a lot of content. Since you don't need the DLC to play a new map, all in all, it's really only giving:
1) Two characters, one survivor and one killer, and six associated Perks for $7
2) One character, either a Survivor or a Killer, and three associated Perks for $4
3) In the case of Stranger Things, three characters, two survivors and one killer, and 9 associated Perks for $12.
What I will say, though, is that yes: The price is fair. If you look at games that sell new characters or heroes, such as Paladins or a MOBA, they average around $10 per new one. Behavior's price for DLC characters is more than fair.
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id save it man your wasting your time. Using this logic the new monster hunter dlc is pay 2 win.
Anyone who wants to check out a real p2w go check neverwinter its p2w to the max.
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Regarding Mercy... I feel like they shouldve just tossed the rez and let her be competent at healing. I mostly just used her new ult as a way of escaping. Genji cant dragonblade me if he cant reach me, lol. If they had simply given her the equivalent of Pharah's vertical boost as a 2nd ability instead of a rez...Id have been cool with that.
As far as my comment on multiple games goes, spamming sequals was the bread and butter of devs since forever. Think of the multitude of Mortal Kombat games we've gotten. NetherRealm rode that for several decades without feeling the need to expand to another IP. I hope you werent a Kano main in MK1, cuz MK2...doesnt have him.
With DBD, its once again the same IP but without the sequels. If you main Huntress, you dont have to worry about DBD2 not having her, and any progress from THIS game not carrying over.
Think about all the game studios who release sequels year after year, with earlier games being deserted. How much love does earlier CODs get, or earlier Maddons. They just role out a new game each year, instead of working on the previous.
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I use to play a game called Perfect World International, where you could spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get the best gear. If you didnt spend money...TECHNICALLY..you could get that gear...after grinding for the next decade maybe. It got to the point where you litterally couldnt kill these players, even if they were AFK. And then the devs released weekly content centered around pvp...
After PWI, I moved to Warframe, which has TONS of grind, but never felt P2W. I managed to acquire aton of high end gear and equipment, as well as every character (at the time, havent played in abit). Only spent like 20 bucks, and that was for a cool cosmetic. I have no problem with grinding for what I want, as long as its actually reasonable. PWI's decade grind isnt reasonable, while Warframe never went that route.
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@LordGlint Looking back, I needed to phrase my reply better.
I agree with you about DbD versus how many studios just churn out sequels. But I would also carefully watch what they do over the next year to 18 months, and if their monetization system slowly changes into something that just keeps further wallet-dipping.
The reason being, with the failure that Deathgarden has turned out to be (again), DbD is the only true full-game revenue source they have. Everything else they do is licensed stuff for mobile games and whatnot, and not even full games. DbD is what's propping their full-game offerings up, and though I hope it isn't used to do so, I suspect that if Deathgarden: Bloodharvest doesn't turn around after it leaves "early access," (which it really isn't in, it's a soft relaunch of an already failed game that is utterly failing again), then DbD might be milked as far as the player base will allow them to do so.
Trouble is, it's very easy to keep pushing and pushing that line until you finally cross it and then it's too late because you've pissed off enough people that they've left.
As it stands right now, at least on PC, whenever they get a rise from a free weekend or a 50% sale, the numbers plummet back down to the normal 20k to 30k range almost immediately after a free weekend, or a week or two after a 50% sale. Meaning they are not retaining new players on the PC platform.
That is a problem for longevity.
And if they aren't retaining new players and numbers remain flat, then eventually it's the Vets that foot the growing bill.
And with the licenses they keep chasing, that's revenue out the door to the licensors. If numbers stay flat and new players aren't retained to spend, that might prove a problem down the line.
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since people think dlc is pay2win.
i say u give out all content free and just slap a 15$ a month subscription on it.
bam fixed
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I gotcha. Ppl checking out the game during a F2P weekend is going to artificially boost the numbers, and those numbers cant really be expected to stick. Hoping this next DLC introduces some new players, and our CURRENT players dont end up pushing them away. We have too many ppl depipping and making new players have a miserable time...
While I dont have a problem with them selling cosmetics for however much they want to sell them, or in whichever WAYS they want to sell them (battle pass VS store)... Ultimately, every game has only so much life to it. Even the dedicated fans of the game are gonna get bored and try something else. What can you really do at that point?
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@Cardgrey I'll chalk that up to a very poor idea. Subscription model games are not well looked upon nowadays, unless you're an I.P. that can pull it off through sheer marketing power like WoW.
Hell, I stopped playing WoW after 16 years of playing simply due to the fact that I was over and done with paying a subscription for a game.
Want to kill DbD? Make it subscription based.
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@LordGlint Exactly! The dedicated fans will eventually get bored and moved on. And without retaining new players, that becomes an issue. Especially for a game they want to keep in full development for at least another 5 years.
Oh, I'm fairly sure current players are going to run off new players. I got a free copy from a Streamer last year and gave it away to my 32-year-old sister. She loves Stranger Things, so finally decided to give it a try this past week.
She played a few nights. Then after Rank Reset happened on Friday and she got totally crapped on afterward as a new player, she's already uninstalled and won't be buying the DLC.
I'm honestly not understanding why such a hyped and popular DLC is releasing only four days after a Rank Reset. It's like whoever plans these things at Behavior doesn't know their own game, or the nature of their own community.
As far as cosmetic prices . . . yeah, they don't bother me. I've seen far, far worse than $10 cosmetics in games. Hell, just off the top of my head, go check out cosmetic prices over in Apex Legends. It's $10 just for a gun cosmetic.
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Rank reset is stupid... The only reason its a thing is because the devs KNOW the current rank system is dumb. They know ranking is about how much you can play each month, rather than your actual skill. Without a reset, theyd have the majority of their playerbase sitting on red ranks and the people in green and yellow would have to wait FOREVER for a match. I asked Peanits about it once...that was the jest of it.
Wish theyd just fix ranking to be actually meaningful like Overwatch had it. Take out the reset, but maybe have placement matches like Overwatch has, so If you havent played in awhile and are rusty...you can be placed accordingly. Then maybe give currency based off rank that you can spend on cosmetics.
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@LordGlint Well, there is some sort of Rank adjustment happening later in the roadmap. I, too, hope they make Rank be actual Rank. Make it hard to rank-up, and drop the damned resets. Do placements each Season.
I also hope whatever is on the roadmap includes the separate ranks for each Killer. Because I've no interest in ranking up and then trying to learn a different killer against some of those survivors.
The only thing RoleQ did right in Overwatch was separate SR for each role, now.
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People wouldn't have to complain about the DLC being only worth it for the perks if for example... the Killers were good? Cough Leatherface cough don't @ me @GrootDude
You know exactly what I mean, even if the Killers fine for you lmao.
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@FireHazard I just @ed you!
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ill stop you right there’s myself I don’t need tree man. While I’ll agree leatherface isn’t the best. I’d say if your a decent player he can be good just not great.
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I hope the seperate rank things becomes...a thing. Afew days ago, after kicking ass and hitting rank 1 as Freddy, I wanted to play Bubba. Then I remembered Im not THAT good with Bubba, lol (Maybe rank 10 for him). Also, sometimes I get the urge to try putting in time and learning Nurse or Spirit. After a game of playing against rank 1s...that urge goes away and I swap back to Freddy for some revenge.
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@FireHazard @GrootDude Well, to be fair, Leatherface gets screwed over and dumped on in the movies, too.
At least Behavior was true to the source material. 😂
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Reee!
No but seriously, you know what I mean when we're talking about the majority of players. Not the minority that makes up Red Ranks who can make due with even the worst Killers...
I mean, even some Red Rankers still can't make due with Leatherface or others...
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@Cardgrey I'm talking base Leatherface is terrible, most discussions refer to base Killers.
He is in-fact the worst Killer currently, because of how maps are (still haven't seen those pallet/loop changes we were promised...) how the meta is, and in-general how limited he truly is.
If you give him to someone whos P3-50'ed him before like me or Groot, we can make due despite it being... challenging. More so @GrootDude because he mains him, I don't.
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@LordGlint Yep. And that is the absolute major factor in my decision to remain in the gray and yellow ranks. I have multiple killers I want to learn, and ranking up will make that more frustrating than its worth. I can't play regularly as it is, so don't have the same time available as people with 1k or more hours. Hell, in 3+ years of Overwatch I've only clocked a bit over 600 hours. And that was my primary game since May 2016.
I desperately want separate Ranks for killers. Until then, climbing ranks works against me.
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Yeah... at least something was done right...
Everything else like original add-ons... mechanics... general originality was a hit or miss. Not bashing the devs, I just think they could've done a better job with how his power can be utilized, what you can and can't do with it, and the add-ons are basically Hill billys with one or two unique ones that don't even work... (Chili add-ons...)
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@FireHazard As someone who likes Leatherface a lot more than Hillbilly (I can't mentally get past that Billy is just a knock-off of poor Bubba), I agree with you.
I like playing Leatherface. But good gods man, he needs some love.
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@Kilmeran Hill Billy came out before Leatherface did, but if you compare the two and which is more "well known" I can see why you came to that conclusion.
- Both are in a sense hill-billy's
- Both use hammers as their original weapons
- Both use chainsaws and that's what they're iconic for
- Both were trapped in basements and treated as freaks by their parents/family...
If we're speaking "who came first" in DBD history, Hill-Billy did. If we're talking about who was more "original" than you're right in that regard. I'm not saying BHVR stole the concept from LeatherFace no, i'm just saying that the concept was already done...
The only real difference is their looks (obviously) and that Hill-Billys parents dis-owned him, while Bubba's somewhat accepted him.
Ironically, LeatherFace "stole" the add-ons that Hill-Billy uses, since Hill-Billy came first to DBD, so... its odd they didn't give him unique add-ons for LeatherFace (except Award-Winning Chili and Chili, but they both don't work. People claim they do, but if they do they practically do nothing...)
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Don’t make me mori you @FireHazard....
edit: I’d be higher ranked but I didn’t play much yesterday and the day before.
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@FireHazard Oh, I'm aware that Hillbilly came first. He was one of the three originals killers next to Trapper and Wraith. I followed the game since 2016, I just didn't buy it or play it because Overwatch occupied my time where all my friends and family played.
I'm almost 47, so grew-up on Leatherface, Myers, Freddy, Jason, et cetera. Always been a huge slasher fan.
But with Leatherface in the game now, I always get a mental image of Hillbilly being from some Grade B Texas Chainsaw knockoff movie.
It's not a knock on who entered DbD first, just how my horror fandom works out mentally on picking who to play.
Naturally, I gravitated to Bubba.
Now, gameplay wise, I hate the speed Billy gets with the chainsaw. I suck at controlling it, and just don't feel motivated to learn him. Leatherface just fits my playstyle more. I just wish he got some needed tweaks.
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XD
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I know what you mean, I was just point that out when it comes to being factual.
My point was, despite Hill-Billy coming out before LeatherFace, you can kinda see why most people view him as a knock-off to LeatherFace with the points I made above on why they are literally the same Killer in most regards...
Also, Bubba needs a rework tbh, its just mainly due to how un-inspired I feel he is with his add-ons and power. Yes, the power is spot on to what he does in the movie, but many things about it just make him unbearable to play when other Killers can literally do what he does, but better...
Like, give Bubba a small dash like Demo-Gorgon, or allow his charge bar to decrease when charging like Hill-Billy, or give him new add-ons that're unique to him... Anything... I feel more could of been done with him, but it really wasn't for some reason.
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I’m 15 and I have seen a lot of the movies belonging to those series, although the Halloween series is the only one I truly liked.
I chose bubba just because I found him fun.
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This truly is a gem you have bestowed on us.
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Small off-topic point, I wish Jason was a part of DBD because of this video now.
Sadly, his license is more tricky to navigate than being blind-folded in a maze...
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