Survivors last second character lobby SWITCH ! [IMPORTANT]

Vietfox

Giche said:

@Vietfox

That's not answering the question directly.

I want your opinion on that hypothetical case : Would it be worth it to play the game if all killers you face were with this particular configuration?

No, but neither the survivors got the same config.
You think all survivors would have the same?

Vietfox

Giche said:

@Vietfox

That's not answering the question directly.

I want your opinion on that hypothetical case : Would it be worth it to play the game if all killers you face were with this particular configuration?

Also, instaflashlight got nerfed, bnp as well (and still considered ultra rare, lol), killers need less time to pick up the survivors making the flashlight save more difficult. And still we get lobby dodgers? LOL
Edit: not gonna keep bumping this thread. Any further questions contact me on steam or in my profile

Giche

@Vietfox said:
No, but neither the survivors got the same config.
You think all survivors would have the same?

Yeah 4 time purple flashlight or toolboxe doesn't exist either huh ?

As mentioned before, even an insta-heal coupled with a flashlight can be game changer and are usually utterly unfair and toxic to the killer.

Only one example among many other.

NMCKE

If I instantly see 4 survivors join in my lobby with no items then I'll quickly get my deadly reverse bear trap combo. Usually they'll hide their items and p3 characters until it's the last second, so I'll quickly prepare for that!

AshleyWB

When I want to bully the killer last second switches are always gonna get the killer's attention. Nothing wrong with it as long as its part of the game. Just like camping and using ds. If you can do it then do it if you want to. Just be wary of getting tunnelled.

thesuicidefox

Switching last second is a coward's way to play. These players do it because they want to pull a fast one on the killer. "Oh but when I come in with p3 character and flashlight the killer dodges" yea that's why there is a lobby system. So killers can decide if they want to take the match or not. If a killer doesn't want to play against you they don't have to, doesn't matter why. If you weren't a coward you would keep your gear and join the lobby with it out. If they killer readies up then they accept the circumstances, and likely are prepared to counter it. Survivors that last second switch don't want prepared killers, they want baby killers they can bully. You can rationalize it however you want, but at the end of the day that's what it really is.

redsopine1

So that's why multiple times in a lobby with a toolbox (sometimes I lobby two fast for loadout so my bad) but I always put things on right away then I get disconnected from host when another few show up doesn't mean our stuff is good could just as easily be really bad or damaging to out chances when used (like just gives more time or makes it harder to fix gens and stuff)

HellDescent

I play killer mostly and I'm fine with that. You can always wait until they are all ready and then hit ready yourself right away.

thesuicidefox

@Vietfox said:
You won't see me dcing because of that stuff, same way when i gotta deal with a nurse with ebony mori. Play the match and move on to the next one.

Disconnecting =/= dodging.

Dodging is just an inconvenience for survivors. Where d/c'ing has actual consequences. Until the loading screen comes up, killer doesn't have to play with you.

Vietfox

thesuicidefox said:

@Vietfox said:
You won't see me dcing because of that stuff, same way when i gotta deal with a nurse with ebony mori. Play the match and move on to the next one.

Disconnecting =/= dodging.

Dodging is just an inconvenience for survivors. Where d/c'ing has actual consequences. Until the loading screen comes up, killer doesn't have to play with you.

Yeah thats why i said DC since i cant lobby dodge as a survivor cause there's no way to see who's gonna be the killer.
PS: funny you say survivors are cowards for doing the last sec switch but killers cherry picking survivors aren't.
Anyway, as i said before i'm not gonna keep bumping this thread. We can talk about it somewhere else, have a nice day.

thesuicidefox

@Vietfox said:
thesuicidefox said:

@Vietfox said:

You won't see me dcing because of that stuff, same way when i gotta deal with a nurse with ebony mori. Play the match and move on to the next one.

Disconnecting =/= dodging.

Dodging is just an inconvenience for survivors. Where d/c'ing has actual consequences. Until the loading screen comes up, killer doesn't have to play with you.

Yeah thats why i said DC since i cant lobby dodge as a survivor cause there's no way to see who's gonna be the killer.
PS: funny you say survivors are cowards for doing the last sec switch but killers cherry picking survivors aren't.
Anyway, as i said before i'm not gonna keep bumping this thread. We can talk about it somewhere else, have a nice day.

Killers "chery picking "survivors aren't cowards for planning ahead. When I'm Hag if I see more than 1 flashlight I won't take the match because FL completely counter my power and I'm going to get screwed hard that game. I can see that and KNOW I will likely lose the game. Doesn't make me a coward if I l don't take a game I know I'm going to lose. But if I'm Huntress I won't care about FL as much, I will just equip LB if I need it or take my chances. If I see 4 toolboxes and I'm Trapper (a killer I don't have Ruin or Thanatophobia) I won't take the game because I have no way to stop gens (which they will do crazy fast) and they can sabo my traps. But against my killers with Ruin that wouldn't be an issue for me.

However, last second switch IS cowardly because you do it to avoid the killers that will either counter your gear or are so confident in their skills/build that they don't care. If you don't want to be a coward, join a lobby with what you plan to use. If the killer dodges, oh well look for another lobby. If they don't and the game starts then all is fair. But if you want to be a coward and give no chance for the killer to prepare for the match then you last second switch because you are scared of killers that won't dodge. You want baby killers you can bully.

Also in your other post you were comparing DC's to dodging, which is why I replied. You implied that by not D/C'ing you are somehow better than killers that dodge. If the game starts and the killer D/C's, that's unacceptable. If the game hasn't start and the killer closes the lobby, that's acceptable. In one case you are already locked into a trial, in the other you have no such obligation. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Boss

I'd prefer if the Survivors lock in at 10 seconds, but the Killer still at 5.

Killer can still see Items for a reason after all, otherwise that'd be removed already.
It's of little use with last-second switches.

BogdanNEK

@Boss said:
I'd prefer if the Survivors lock in at 10 seconds, but the Killer still at 5.

Killer can still see Items for a reason after all, otherwise that'd be removed already.
It's of little use with last-second switches.

One of the best comments so far.

Mister_xD

ayyyy you mentioned me

Global

@Vietfox said:
Orion said:

@Vietfox said:

Should be as White Noise 2. Survivors cant see the killer and killer cant see survivors and what they got.

Then give Lightborn, Franklin's Demise, and any other perks that interact with Survivor items as default game mechanics to the Killer.

Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%.

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Visionmaker

Lobby dodging is the source of the problem.

Gunmech04

@Visionmaker said:
Lobby dodging is the source of the problem.

This is the exactly what caused the Last Second Switch to begin with. If you as Killers can't handle the items survivors bring into the match then it's time for you to find a new game. You shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick your games just because you see someone with a flashlight. You know I wish I could see the Killer before the match starts so I can decide if I want to play against them. So quit whining about something you caused Killers.

Unknown

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Orion

@Gunmech04 said:

@Visionmaker said:
Lobby dodging is the source of the problem.

This is the exactly what caused the Last Second Switch to begin with. If you as Killers can't handle the items survivors bring into the match then it's time for you to find a new game. You shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick your games just because you see someone with a flashlight. You know I wish I could see the Killer before the match starts so I can decide if I want to play against them. So quit whining about something you caused Killers.

Instead, now you have Killers who DC mid-trial. Is that any better for you?

powerbats

@Orion said:

@Gunmech04 said:

@Visionmaker said:
Lobby dodging is the source of the problem.

This is the exactly what caused the Last Second Switch to begin with. If you as Killers can't handle the items survivors bring into the match then it's time for you to find a new game. You shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick your games just because you see someone with a flashlight. You know I wish I could see the Killer before the match starts so I can decide if I want to play against them. So quit whining about something you caused Killers.

Instead, now you have Killers who DC mid-trial. Is that any better for you?

It doesn't change the fact it's wrong, you're basically dodging because you don't get your way. If someone brings an item you don't like dodge, picks a character you don't like dodge. don't like the map you get, dodge. Don't get someone down within 1st few minutes or within 20 seconds of match start. dodge.

You as the killer can clearly see what items and characters they're playing so you can choose the most optimal killer and addons.

**Now before you get out that last seconds witch I've said for a long time I don't agree with it or like it. I've also said survivors should be locked in at 15 seconds. The killers then get locked in at 7 seconds or 5 seconds. So you can't complain about switching at last second. **

But at the same time if you lobby dodge that late into the timer then you should get a lobby dodge penalty or something like that. You can't say you're dodging due to ping because you've had 40 seconds to watch that person. (That's an example of the average timer not totally accurate)

Most of the time when killers dodge it isn't because of last second switching it's because they want the easiest possible lobby. I see killers dodge if they don't get the right map or there's a competing map offering. I've had it happen the most with Doctors don't get Gideons with extra range and ultra rare addon and dodge.

I see it happen with other killers not liking the map rng, well deal with it like everyone else has too. I hate getting Lery's and Gideons with certain killers. Getting Coldwin or Macmillan with certain ones is a pain as well.

But lets not kid ourselves in that most of the dodging is done purely for the easiest match possible. The excuses that it's a 4 man ds/fl squad is completely overused and the stats prove it. Again there should be a longer timer for the killer to choose and survivors should get locked in at 15 seconds.

Unknown

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Orion

@powerbats said:

@Orion said:

@Gunmech04 said:

@Visionmaker said:
Lobby dodging is the source of the problem.

This is the exactly what caused the Last Second Switch to begin with. If you as Killers can't handle the items survivors bring into the match then it's time for you to find a new game. You shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick your games just because you see someone with a flashlight. You know I wish I could see the Killer before the match starts so I can decide if I want to play against them. So quit whining about something you caused Killers.

Instead, now you have Killers who DC mid-trial. Is that any better for you?

It doesn't change the fact it's wrong, you're basically dodging because you don't get your way. If someone brings an item you don't like dodge, picks a character you don't like dodge. don't like the map you get, dodge. Don't get someone down within 1st few minutes or within 20 seconds of match start. dodge.

You as the killer can clearly see what items and characters they're playing so you can choose the most optimal killer and addons.

**Now before you get out that last seconds witch I've said for a long time I don't agree with it or like it. I've also said survivors should be locked in at 15 seconds. The killers then get locked in at 7 seconds or 5 seconds. So you can't complain about switching at last second. **

But at the same time if you lobby dodge that late into the timer then you should get a lobby dodge penalty or something like that. You can't say you're dodging due to ping because you've had 40 seconds to watch that person. (That's an example of the average timer not totally accurate)

Most of the time when killers dodge it isn't because of last second switching it's because they want the easiest possible lobby. I see killers dodge if they don't get the right map or there's a competing map offering. I've had it happen the most with Doctors don't get Gideons with extra range and ultra rare addon and dodge.

I see it happen with other killers not liking the map rng, well deal with it like everyone else has too. I hate getting Lery's and Gideons with certain killers. Getting Coldwin or Macmillan with certain ones is a pain as well.

But lets not kid ourselves in that most of the dodging is done purely for the easiest match possible. The excuses that it's a 4 man ds/fl squad is completely overused and the stats prove it. Again there should be a longer timer for the killer to choose and survivors should get locked in at 15 seconds.

Let's stay on the subject, which is last-second switching, instead of going for a tu quoque fallacy.

Unknown

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powerbats

@Mycroft said:

All this is said by people who have lobbied to nerf every single killer ever created, have third party programs invented to cherrypick matches and DC the second they hear a Nurse.

The devs specifically have stated the killer has the ability to see the items to prepare. Last second switching subverts that.

So once again you throw out complete and utter nonsense that you know for a fact isn't true.

Where have I ever asked to lobby to have every killer nerfed that ever been created?

Where have I ever asked for 3rd party programs be created and or invented to cherry pick matches?

Where have I ever said I dc the moment I hear a nurse?

Where have I ever said that last second switching was ok?

For the 1st we know that's a completely false statement on your part and really bad logical fallacy.

For the 2nd again we know that's false and again bad logical fallacy.

For the 3rd again we know that's false and again a bad logical fallacy.

For the 4th well we're going to be 4 for 4 here so that means your post came crashing down faster than Icarus did.

powerbats

@Mycroft said:
The simple fact after all this time last second switching even exists is a testament to the fact if it doesn't benefit survivors these devs don't care a wit about it. We were having these conversations months ago. Nothing has come of it. But they'll change pallets, change hooks, change traps and hooks, bend over backwards for anything survivors want.

Survivors are so blatantly favored by these devs you'd think they were all related. One big pot of nepotism.

Biased opinions by those that have a complex that everyone is out to get them is your issue. Besides is the survivors were so favoured then why are the devs making changes to help killers?

Unknown

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powerbats

@Orion said:

Let's stay on the subject, which is last-second switching, instead of going for a tu quoque fallacy.

There's quite a bit I posted that relates to last second switching, jsu because it points out issues on both sides doesn't invalidate it. If all you're wanting to do is cherry pick survivor bashing only comments then you shouldn't be on the forum anymore than certain survivors doing the same.

I won't mention the survivors by name but some are on the front page of the forum with killer bashing posts or were yesterday.

Orion

@powerbats said:

@Orion said:

Let's stay on the subject, which is last-second switching, instead of going for a tu quoque fallacy.

There's quite a bit I posted that relates to last second switching, jsu because it points out issues on both sides doesn't invalidate it. If all you're wanting to do is cherry pick survivor bashing only comments then you shouldn't be on the forum anymore than certain survivors doing the same.

I won't mention the survivors by name but some are on the front page of the forum with killer bashing posts or were yesterday.

I'm wanting us to stay on topic instead of trying to use red herrings to justify ######### behavior.

Unknown

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Giche

"Last second switching is a legit counter to dodging, you filthy killer main "

Unknown

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powerbats

@Mycroft said:
Just like camping is a counter to Boosted Survivor Ego.

Just like looping is to Boosted Killer Ego.

powerbats

@Orion said:

I'm wanting us to stay on topic instead of trying to use red herrings to justify ######### behavior.

Ah yes the complete deflection considering I knew you'd do just that.

@powerbats said:

**Now before you get out that last seconds witch I've said for a long time I don't agree with it or like it. I've also said survivors should be locked in at 15 seconds. The killers then get locked in at 7 seconds or 5 seconds. So you can't complain about switching at last second. **

. Again there should be a longer timer for the killer to choose and survivors should get locked in at 15 seconds.

But yes, don't let the facts get in your way again since the proof was a few tweets above you that you already responded to in an earlier post.

Oh and while we're at it you conveniently ignored one post from a killer main that wasn't on topic at all. Although I do agree with what he said about it not being fun. But you always seem to ignore killer posts but if a survivor posts something it's quoted immediately. At least prove you're not a completely biased poster with the logical fallacies nonsense.

@Global said:

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Global

@powerbats said:

@Orion said:

I'm wanting us to stay on topic instead of trying to use red herrings to justify ######### behavior.

Ah yes the complete deflection considering I knew you'd do just that.

@powerbats said:

**Now before you get out that last seconds witch I've said for a long time I don't agree with it or like it. I've also said survivors should be locked in at 15 seconds. The killers then get locked in at 7 seconds or 5 seconds. So you can't complain about switching at last second. **

. Again there should be a longer timer for the killer to choose and survivors should get locked in at 15 seconds.

But yes, don't let the facts get in your way again since the proof was a few tweets above you that you already responded to in an earlier post.

Oh and while we're at it you conveniently ignored one post from a killer main that wasn't on topic at all. Although I do agree with what he said about it not being fun. But you always seem to ignore killer posts but if a survivor posts something it's quoted immediately. At least prove you're not a completely biased poster with the logical fallacies nonsense.

@Global said:

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

I dont believe you read the full context of my comment it was on topic as i was responding to what someone else said. I replied to a comment saying
"Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%." (which in itself was a comment replying to what another poster said.)
In which i replied what i said because the fear of survivor loadouts is justified as the things that survivors have can determine if you actually have fun within a game. And no i am not a killer main i play both sides 50/50 if people can even comprehend doing that these days.

Usui

I'm down for stopping last second changes if you let me see which killer it is and let me see their add ons.

Usui

@Global said:

@Vietfox said:
Orion said:

@Vietfox said:

Should be as White Noise 2. Survivors cant see the killer and killer cant see survivors and what they got.

Then give Lightborn, Franklin's Demise, and any other perks that interact with Survivor items as default game mechanics to the Killer.

Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%.

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Cool so quit crying and equip lightborn

Global

@Usui said:

@Global said:

@Vietfox said:
Orion said:

@Vietfox said:

Should be as White Noise 2. Survivors cant see the killer and killer cant see survivors and what they got.

Then give Lightborn, Franklin's Demise, and any other perks that interact with Survivor items as default game mechanics to the Killer.

Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%.

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Cool so quit crying and equip lightborn

Okay let me just waste a perk slot that could of been used on a perk that would do more in game. Not every game does someone bring a flashlight into the match so it will be a risk even determining whether or not i should even bring it in. And if i chose not to bring it because no one had it in the lobby there is still a chance someone could get it in a chest. And if no one got it period it is a waste of a perk slot. Hell even then lightborn wont protect you from a purple flashlight with the best addons if they time it right while you are breaking a pallet unless you insist on me also bringing brutal strength another perk slot used for only countering one thing.

Usui

@Global said:

@Usui said:

@Global said:

@Vietfox said:
Orion said:

@Vietfox said:

Should be as White Noise 2. Survivors cant see the killer and killer cant see survivors and what they got.

Then give Lightborn, Franklin's Demise, and any other perks that interact with Survivor items as default game mechanics to the Killer.

Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%.

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Cool so quit crying and equip lightborn

Okay let me just waste a perk slot that could of been used on a perk that would do more in game. Not every game does someone bring a flashlight into the match so it will be a risk even determining whether or not i should even bring it in. And if i chose not to bring it because no one had it in the lobby there is still a chance someone could get it in a chest. And if no one got it period it is a waste of a perk slot. Hell even then lightborn wont protect you from a purple flashlight with the best addons if they time it right while you are breaking a pallet unless you insist on me also bringing brutal strength another perk slot used for only countering one thing.

Sounds like a YOU problem.

Global

@Usui said:

@Global said:

@Usui said:

@Global said:

@Vietfox said:
Orion said:

@Vietfox said:

Should be as White Noise 2. Survivors cant see the killer and killer cant see survivors and what they got.

Then give Lightborn, Franklin's Demise, and any other perks that interact with Survivor items as default game mechanics to the Killer.

Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%.

because people play this game for fun and running around in circles just to get your screen turned completely white from a looping claudette with a flashlight isnt fun.

Cool so quit crying and equip lightborn

Okay let me just waste a perk slot that could of been used on a perk that would do more in game. Not every game does someone bring a flashlight into the match so it will be a risk even determining whether or not i should even bring it in. And if i chose not to bring it because no one had it in the lobby there is still a chance someone could get it in a chest. And if no one got it period it is a waste of a perk slot. Hell even then lightborn wont protect you from a purple flashlight with the best addons if they time it right while you are breaking a pallet unless you insist on me also bringing brutal strength another perk slot used for only countering one thing.

Sounds like a YOU problem.

Well its clear you have nothing to say back thats fun thanks for the debate though

Giche

@Global

@Giche said:
"Last second switching is a legit counter to dodging, you filthy killer main "

Not hard to figure out.

powerbats

@Global said:

I dont believe you read the full context of my comment it was on topic as i was responding to what someone else said. I replied to a comment saying
"Survivors have to take their chances when picking small game or calm spirit, so should the killers.
I honestly cant understand this fear for survivors loadout, if you are so worried on having a succesful match you arent enjoying the game at 100%." (which in itself was a comment replying to what another poster said.)
In which i replied what i said because the fear of survivor loadouts is justified as the things that survivors have can determine if you actually have fun within a game. And no i am not a killer main i play both sides 50/50 if people can even comprehend doing that these days.

I only quoted you for context since you're reply was in relation to others who weren't on topic yet they never got called out. This is especially glaring for a certain poster that always brings up survivors to cause drama in every thread. The same as a certain survivor does in every thread blasting killers.

powerbats

@Global said:

Sounds like a YOU problem.

Well its clear you have nothing to say back thats fun thanks for the debate though

Yeah that's a pretty bad response to you since if you're the problem they need to explain why you're the problem.

BogdanNEK

Is this a tactic now?

Should this be solved by the devs with extra seconds for killer?

If it's ok as it is, how do you feel when you do it or someone else does it in your killer lobby?

Vietfox

BogdanNEK said:

Is this a tactic now?

Should this be solved by the devs with extra seconds for killer?

If it's ok as it is, how do you feel when you do it or someone else does it in your killer lobby?

@BogdanNEK
I dont care because i set my loadout (as a survivor and as a killer) before creating the lobby and press ready as soon as i get there. Stop being afraid of survivors loadouts and enjoy the game.

Orion

@Vietfox said:
I dont care because i set my loadout (as a survivor and as a killer) before creating the lobby and press ready as soon as i get there. Stop being afraid of survivors loadouts and enjoy the game.

It's not about fear, it's about preparation. That time is supposed to be for the Killer to prepare for any items and perks the Survivors might bring. Instead, it's being exploited by Survivors to disadvantage the Killer.

lyric

Orion said:

@Vietfox said:
I dont care because i set my loadout (as a survivor and as a killer) before creating the lobby and press ready as soon as i get there. Stop being afraid of survivors loadouts and enjoy the game.

It's not about fear, it's about preparation. That time is supposed to be for the Killer to prepare for any items and perks the Survivors might bring. Instead, it's being exploited by Survivors to disadvantage the Killer.

Yea, prepare to dodge 

Orion

@lyric said:
Yea, prepare to dodge 

Instead they DC at the start of the trial, making Survivors lose their offerings. I've only recently started to use offerings as Survivor because I'm always concerned some ######### is going to make the Killer DC, rendering my offering useless.

powerbats

@Orion said:

@lyric said:
Yea, prepare to dodge 

Instead they DC at the start of the trial, making Survivors lose their offerings. I've only recently started to use offerings as Survivor because I'm always concerned some ######### is going to make the Killer DC, rendering my offering useless.

I hate it when it happens and also hate when it doesn't happen and the killer still dc's once they see the offerings. The only times I've ever last second switched something has been when I'm a Claudette (rarely play her) and 2 or more suddenly switch to her. Since that's pretty much a guaranteed lobby dodge or dodge after offerings.

I'll swap to Meg since I can at least play her even without addons rady if I'm going to use any. Items I only change those last second if someone does a swap to an item when they didn't have one and there's more than 2 etc.

Since oh they've got more than 2 items equipped better dodge or do it during offerings screen to screw them over. This isn't just a last second issue either but sucks either way.

What I'd like to see is there be the 2 timers like currently but once lobby is full and no one has left survivors get the usual 45-50 second lobby countdown timer. But at 15 seconds the setups are locked in and then the killer has 10 seconds to decide so at 5 it auto locks everyone in still.

But there also needs to be a killer lockin so that if all 4 are ready at 45 seconds and locked in the killer has 15 seconds to be ready after that it auto locks in. I've had so many lobbies where all the survivors are ready and the killer waits 30 seconds or more till they get auto locked in.

BogdanNEK

Do you still see this type of survivors?

The_Crusader

If they pull that on me then I try to go harder on them in game also at that point the gloves are off, camp - tunnel becomes acceptable.

If you really don't like it though just quit out while it's loading.

4 P3 claudettes with the best toolboxes and a macmillan offering and thick mist can really screw you if you aren't prepared.