Are Killers allowed to use NOED now?
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Jeyers every post I see you make is just directly complaining about killers or just asking for a nerf/rework. Killers have strong perks and survivors have strong perks, why should only the killers ones be reworked?
Although DS is in a better place now the thingI hate the most is it's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk but in reality it's just a 1 minute of invincibility. I see far too many survivors using it to just play dumb. Lets rush the hook with DS! Lets stay on this gen right in the killers face because we have god mode for another x seconds. Lets just body block the killer because if he downs us we can still escape! Let's instantly get back into a chase, oops I messed up and got downed now lets just get rewarded for my mistake!
NOED is a second chance for killers that has a completely easy counterplay for. Survivors have a list of second chance perks too but if the killer ever complains about them they are just told to gid gud.
Now Jeyers, my question to you is why can the survivors have second chances but the whenever the killer uses a second chance it's OP?
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That's objectively wrong.
Survivors have to actually do something to get adrenaline to work (work 5 gens done)
Killers don't have to do anything to get NOED to work.
Broken perk that rewards poor play.
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Go ahead. Good survivors will cleanse it before it even activates.
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Plague doesn't get a movement speed bonus on top of that, so you can handle it much easier to loop her.
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Tuesdays after 11 AM but before 5PM. Wednesday's after 1PM but before 5:45PM. Sundays all Day.
For the record, DS, Adrenaline and BT are only clear for use Friday's from 9AM until 11AM. Mondays between 2PM and 4:45PM.
Everyone clear now? Can we get this pinned?
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Play with your Food is a thing ;)
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You clearly don't read these forums much if you think that is true. Killers whine more than anyone. Well, let me clarify. Not all killers do, considering I'd be looped into the killer group, but not the whiner one. Killers are the biggest vocal group on this forum and they constantly complain about:
SWF, Gen Rush, Adrenaline, Non-Healing Meta, Healing is too fast (#########?!), Borrowed Time (how dare anyone rescue in front of me when I'm camping!), Dead Hard, DS (how dare they stab me when I tunneled them!), SWF (again, just cuz....yeah), Keys (I just closed that thing!), nobody cleanses sickness, Sprint Burst (seriously?!), loops, loops (see what I did there?), and many more.
Both sides whine and have a rule book. Admit it, and move on.
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I rarely see killers using it. Never saw a Plague using it tho
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Killers don't need permission to use NoEd, and nObody is changing their mind about it.
People still look down on people using it.
Not sure what kind of propaganda you've convinced yourself into believing, but its certainly not a delusion shared by anyone else.
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It's allowed and bad or newer players will get the greatest use out of it.
Can't knock a new player for using it, probably one of the few perks they have that's actually worth a damn.
Bad players are just that. Whether they are practicing or not. Or just can't get better.
Good players see little to no use of it, simply because they get everyone before the gates are powered, or there is only 1 or maybe 2 left by the time the gates open, it it's almost irrelevant. Plus better killers usually means better survivors, they will get ridda totems.
TBF, only bad and new survivors complain about NOed being OP cause why do totems, where as only bad and new killers use NOed because of lack of skill.
At any rate, it's a perk, people can use it if they want to or not.
Also The Doctor recommends the totem cleansing treatment, has a 100% success rate of a NOedless game if all 5 are done. Nurse approves.
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I’ve never complained about noed, I often cleanse every totem before the first or second gen pop, it take ight longer on The Game and Lery’s.
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If you want to run Noed, it's fine.
Since people are suggesting a rework. Maybe make it hook based instead. Remove the Hex part. Make it where Noed only activates if you have x number of hooks before the gates are powered.
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I would highly encourage new players to NOT use NOED as it really hinders learning the killer role. I started off using it and it became my crutch. I had another killer give me some good advice. He told me to take my licking as a killer and learn from my mistakes. Stop leaning on NOED. They were absolutely right. I got my butt handed to me, but got better every match.
That said, NOED is a key part of multiple end-game builds and I don't mind using it for them.
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Like how you dodged my response, I'll state it again:
NOED is a second chance for killers that has a completely easy counter play. Survivors have a list of second chance perks too but if the killer ever complains about them they are just told to gid gud.
Now Jeyers, my question to you is why can the survivors have second chances but the whenever the killer uses a second chance it's OP and broken?
There are strong perks on either side and although Adrenaline does activate when survivors complete a PART of their objective because escaping is their objective, not completing generators, it still denies killers of their earned hits or downs. On top of that it completely bypasses exhaustion which I find a bit tedious because you can just dead hard into adrenaline if timed correctly. Both NOED and Adrenaline needs changing in my opinion because both deny gameplay and to some extent Adrenaline rewards failure because the killer wins a chase just for it to mean absolutely nothing.
Edit: I never use NOED because I know how unfun it is to go against but you need to see how Adrenaline looks from the other perspective. You say NOED is annoying because you just get downed but Adrenaline is annoying to killers because they down a survivor just for them to get a free heal then into a Sprint burst which denies them a kill.
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u do realize cleansing totems is also a survivors choice goal... NOED can also be seen as a reward to the killers for survivors NOT doing one of their objectives... dont cleanse the totems dont get mad if NOED slaps u cleanse all dull totems dont have to worry in case there is a NOED
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It's always been allowed, but it's just highly frowned upon and associated with bad players in general.
Most people who use NoeD fall under 3 conditions
- New to Killer and have few teachables.
- Bad killers who need something to secure a win they dont deserve.
- Just started leveling that specific killer and didn't get any better teachables
On the survivors side the only real condition for NoeD is as follows
- Totems aren't important so let's either gen rush and avoid them or ignore them all together cause he only has one hex totem like the average youtube video.
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I play mostly survivor and occasionally I play killer because I like to get both perspectives, and i am so freaking BORED of this Noed debate.
Firstly, I don't use NoeD, because there are perks that I find better suit my play style. That doesn't mean I'm going to bash it, because what works for me might not work for others and Vice Versa. That's why we have a choice of perks in the first place.
Secondly. NoeD has a counter. I don't care if it takes you away from doing gens. I don't care if you think it's a waste of time because the killer might not have it. If you cannot be bothered or refuse to do totems, which give you bp as well as reduce risk, you have NO leg's with which to climb up on your soapbox and b*tch about the perk.
This works both ways however. Again, i don't use Adrenaline, because my build is utility / triage, but I'm not going to condemn people for using something that helps them. Gens get done, Adrenaline activates, enough said.
Both of these perks give you a chance to swing the end game your way, because that is LITERALLY their purpose. Yes, it can be annoying as hell to get all the gens done only to find out the killer just one shot you or a team member, but you had the power to do totems and still have the power to kill the newly procced NoeD, or you can try leaving. NoeD is only the end of the world if you let it be.
Yes its frustrating as hell to find out 2 or more people have Adrenaline, but..and I'm going to try and say this in the nicest way possible here because i rally am not making a dig...as killers, we CHOOSE to play the single role in this game. The risk of meta isn't going to go away if you stamp down one perk. It'll just be replaced by another. I hear so much talk about the survivor rule book but lets be honest, killers have their own made up rules too.
I didn't come to this game expecting rainbows and puppies, but I would at least like to imagine that enough adults populate this game to understand that we cannot control everything the other side does, and that when we have a counter to a particular problem, we utilize it rather than opting to stamp our feet and demand it be changed.
Rant/Lecture over...gonna go hunt down a Tek-Rex!
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I do understand that survivors can cleanse totems and I don’t think that you read the entirety of my post. Please read everything before responding with language intended to belittle someone else. Also I never said that I “get mad” if a killer runs NOED. I’m trying to have a civil conversation and if that’s too much for you to handle then please don’t contribute. I hate the rift in the community between survivors mains and killer mains and if no one chills out, then the community is going to kill this game.
In addition, I’ve heard your argument many times before that survivor’s secondary objective is to cleanse totems, but by with that kind of mentality, you aren’t making matters much better.
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I didn't dodge anything, you just didn't listen.
Killers getting rewarded for losing = bad
Survivors getting rewarded for winning = good
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Clearly you didn't read my response. Survivors haven't won anything until they have escaped. Repairing 5 gens is not equal to survivors winning, you need to get out of that mindset. EGC is just another stage of the game, both sides are still able to win or lose in this part of the match. If survivors have won when 5 gens are repaired then clearly they would automatically just escape the moment the 5th gen pops.
Now lets flip this around. Killers downing means they have won because according to you, survivors won when they repair gens. I fairly win a chase and down a survivor then Adrenaline activates. Now you said NOED is broken and OP because it rewards failure, well what did Adrenaline do in that scenario? Rewarded the survivor on failing the chase and punished the killer for winning it. So what you say about NOED applies to Adrenaline so if NOED is removed so should Adrenaline in your eyes, correct?
If your answer is no to my previous paragraph then explain why NOED should be removed apart from "It rewards failure" because Adrenaline DEPENDING on the scenario rewards failure too. Another scenario is the killer slugs 3/4 survivors and the last gen pops. Now all survivors are up and that punishes the killer for being able to down 3 survivors and keep them there, again rewarding the survivors on their failure to win a chase.
Can you see where this is going? You can claim all you want that NOED rewards failure but to some extent Adrenaline does too.
Adrenaline is completely situational. If a killer won a chase fair and square and Adrenaline makes the survivor escape then it's definitely rewarded failure. If Adrenaline deactivates OUTSIDE of a chase to heal you for end game then it hasn't rewarded failure.
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NOED punish people who don't cleanse totems, next
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Clearly you didn't read my response. Survivors haven't won anything until they have escaped. Repairing 5 gens is not equal to survivors winning, you need to get out of that mindset. EGC is just another stage of the game, both sides are still able to win or lose in this part of the match. If survivors have won when 5 gens are repaired then clearly they would automatically just escape the moment the 5th gen pops.
Now lets flip this around. Killers downing means they have won because according to you, survivors won when they repair gens. I fairly win a chase and down a survivor then Adrenaline activates. Now you said NOED is broken and OP because it rewards failure, well what did Adrenaline do in that scenario? Rewarded the survivor on failing the chase and punished the killer for winning it. So what you say about NOED applies to Adrenaline so if NOED is removed so should Adrenaline in your eyes, correct?
If your answer is no to my previous paragraph then explain why NOED should be removed apart from "It rewards failure" because Adrenaline DEPENDING on the scenario rewards failure too. Another scenario is the killer slugs 3/4 survivors and the last gen pops. Now all survivors are up and that punishes the killer for being able to down 3 survivors and keep them there, again rewarding the survivors on their failure to win a chase.
Can you see where this is going? You can claim all you want that NOED rewards failure but to some extent Adrenaline does too.
Adrenaline is completely situational. If a killer won a chase fair and square and Adrenaline makes the survivor escape then it's definitely rewarded failure. If Adrenaline deactivates OUTSIDE of a chase to heal you for end game then it hasn't rewarded failure.
Sorry I edited my post and it just vanished. If it reappears, sorry for the double post.
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Correction only one survivor has to the other three can mess around and adrenaline will still work now is that fair
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I still run it sometimes. Idc what they say post game because my chat window is closed.
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I think there's a bit less flak thrown at NOED now because of Inner Strength.
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Let's see here...
Counters for Adrenaline:
-Kill all survs before EGC/5 gens
-Play a killer with an instadown/Use an insta-down addon on a killer without one
Counters for NOED:
-Spend an average of 17 seconds per survivor cleansing totems
Which is easier?
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It depends to me a little.
Are they playing strong killers like nurse, spirit, billy etc? Yeah I'd be a little salty and I think it's a crutch for them being bad.
Are they playing any of the vast list of weak M1 killers? That's much more reasonable. They're weak enough you can't really complain as those killers don't really have much choice.
That said, I still don't use NOED though because I personally think it's too much of a crutch for kills I didn't earn.
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When Survivors whine about NoEd I tell them to Git Gud.
It's seriously not hard to find and cleanse totems.
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Killers are always allowed to use NOED. It's just a shame when my fellow killers refuse to improve their skill because they've got that safety net. If a genuinely good killer gets kills with it, whatever, but I've rarely seen a NOED in the wild that was played by someone capable of more than 2-5 hooks before activation time.
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finally someone giving a valid opinion that isn't just "LOL SURVIVOR BAD CLEANSE TOTEMS"; i'm not a fan of the rework you said, but I agree to something along those lines really, It'd be nice if at the very least you need to have hooked x amount of survivors in the game for it be active once all gens are done; I'm not sure what would be a fair balance honestly. But It'd be nice to see something change to it
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My point to Jeyers is he keeps defending Adrenaline because it rewards the survivors for "winning" when they haven't won yet, they simply did one of their objectives. The final objective for them is to open the gate and escape.
He says that NOED needs be removed because it rewards failure but to some extent Adrenaline rewards failure too. As my previous two examples are:
1) Killer downs a survivor, adrenaline pops and they escaped. Well, it just punished the killer for downing a survivor and winning a chase because the 5th gen popped.
2) Killer slugs 3/4 survivors, final gen pops and now all survivors are up and running. Well it punished the killer for being able to down 3 survivors and win 3 chases.
I'm trying to show him that his statements are stupid because if he wants NOED to be removed then with his statement he wants Adrenaline to be removed too but his never replies never makes sense and that's why I said he dodged my question. But then he claims that I didn't read what he said when my reply is full of points to prove what he put is completely wrong and makes no sense.
But yeah, cleaning totems isn't that hard and I don't understand why so many people complain about NOED.
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I personally don't think NoEd needs adjusting.
There's too much drama around NoEd, but the fact of the matter is even if it triggers and someone gets downed and hooked, it's not the end of the world!
You can still go around calmly, run and find the totem, cleanse it, then go for the hook save play.
Easy peazy.
There is no need to get so upset over NoEd. You got Borrowed Time anyway right? There, so easy.
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i apologize i didnt mean to belittle u. but yes the same way it can be seen as NOED rewards killers for failing their objective it can also been seen as survivors reward the killer by not doing their other objective
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You have far more games where NOED is winning a losing game for a killer than a game where 3 survivors are getting revived with adrenaline because the 4th finished the last gen.
Like, its not even comparable at all those two situations.
So NOED is the busted perk that needs to get removed or nerfed hard.
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Again, read my response and answer my question. I'll state it again: You say NOED is OP and needs reworking because it REWARDS failure, so in your mind adrenaline does too? If not, state a better reason to rework NOED because Adrenaline CAN REWARD failure too, depending on the scenario.
It doesn't matter if Adrenaline doesn't always reward survivors on failing, the point is that it mostly rewards at LEAST 1 survivor for failing a chase because it's true that the killer rarely gets screwed over by 3 slugged adrenaline survivors.
Now a counter to your point: NOED doesn't always reward killers for failing because smart survivors cleanse totems. So if Adrenaline is fine because it doesn't ALWAYS reward failure then so is NOED because it doesn't reward failure if the survivors know what they are doing.
Again stop saying "Nerf NOED because it rewards failure" then proceed to say Adrenaline is balanced. Both perks reward failure and screw each side over, if one goes then so should the other.
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Stop it, please with the "So in your mind". You're arguing in bad faith so many times now i will have to ignore you soon.
I can't be any more clear than this.
NOED = Bad
Adrenaline = Good
Ok ?
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I can't be any more clear. NOED rewards failure and so does Adrenaline so if one goes so should the other. If you can't come up with any other reasons apart from "NOED rewards failure" but then defend Adrenaline then I'm sorry but you're just biased.
I agree NOED rewards failure and I hate it just as much as anyone else but if I die to it it's my fault for not cleansing totems. I don't come here on the forums whining about it. Now you can defend Adrenaline for rewarding failure on survivors but then say NOED is broken, it makes absolutely no sense.
I'm not arguing bad faith a forums is here to discuss, I'm just shutting down all of your points on why Adrenaline is fine but NOED is bad. You can't argue against NOED for rewarding failure then defend Adrenaline that also rewards failure.
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You're wrong tho.
NOED rewards failure while adrena rewards winning.
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People are and have always been allowed to use NOED- It's just the annoying, bad taste in people's mouths that it's so hated. People might not have changed minds, but they've been caught up on others things in-game, such as, Stranger Things.
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Again you haven't won anything until you have escaped. Lets flip your point around, NOED punishes survivors on failing to cleanse totems and rewards the killer for totems still being active therefore NOED is balanced.
Like I said, you cannot defend Adrenaline that rewards failure then say NOED is broken. Both perks punish either side and if one were to be removed so should the other. Even the developers have stated NOED has a lot of counterplay to it but you know... If you are not a good survivor you would be complaining about NOED.
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No noed isn't broken, noed turns the game around if the survs finishes all the gens it gives the killers a chance to turn it around before its to late, there is a perk that allows u to see totems as a surv so if a surv is running that then y'all won't need to worry cuz u can just break it and not worry bout getting killed if ur not reckless, so noed isn't broken it is perfectly balanced it's just when the survs get reckless at the end they end up dead, and if ur not reckless and get caught u don't know how to loop it's simple
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Adrenaline and NOED are the same perk but for different sides, if you take issue with one perk but not the other then you are completely biased.
Let's take a look at what the perks objectively do.
NOED ;
- Activates after 5 generators are completed.
- Effectively removes a health state from all survivors.
- Can be prevented by cleansing totems or destroyed while active.
- Provides a 4% speed boost for as long as the totem persists.
- Will not work if the trial doesn't reach endgame.
Adrenaline ;
- Activates after 5 generators are completed.
- Effectively adds a health state to survivors running the perk.
- Cannot be prevented from activating in the endgame, infact the perk ignores exhaustion.
- Provides a 50% speed boost for 5 seconds.
- Will not work if the trial doesn't reach endgame.
As you can tell the two perks are nearly identical in concept and execution. 4x Adrenaline is the exact equivalent of NOED. Both of these perks are as bad as each other and are equally as frustrating as the other to be on the receiving end of which is where we go back to my original point - You cannot have one perk without the other, if you have a problem with one then you objectively have a problem with the other as they are the same thing but for different sides and that right there is where you are wrong.
Post edited by vampire_toothy on3 -
When my Adrenaline activates because the hatch gets closed, I'm rewarded with a second health state for succeeding!
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I love you, I completely forgot about that. All of my walls of text could have been ended with that one statement <3
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Wither or not NOED activates is up to the survivors. Ya'll need to stop bitching about it and make it a point to always cleanse one totem or two every match. I guarantee that if every survivor did that, you'd rarely see NOED.
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That's also wrong.
NOED removes 2 health states on hit = insta down.
Adrena heal only 1 health state = if down then up to injured and from injured to full hp.
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This is true, it's only one state.
But let's not also forget that it will delay firing when your hooked as well. So basically you failed, your on a hook, but you get it anyway.
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Agreed.
Imagine if people realized that, by design, the threat of NOED is the only 'real' reason for survivors to spend ANY time on totems without the presence of an obvious Hex perk.
Easier to REEEEEEEEEE than to SEEEEEEEEEEEE
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You can literally run any perk you want, its not specified anywhere that you cant.
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One of my biggest issues with noed is that, really good killers use noed to basically guarentee a 4k. I have been in so many situations where we barely got all gens done against a really good killer and then the killer has noed when they already play well enough, just to get free wins.
This issue is present in many things in this game. Like one thing is already really strong by itself, but becomes OP when people combine it with something ( like nurse or spirit with ebony mori or noed). 4 survivors using adrenaline is also an example of this. One adrenaline isn't that bad but becomes really OP when everyone uses it.
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