Why the sudden hate?
I now noticed a lot of negativity towards the spirit. But the question is why? Is it because she's good and has an actual snowball chance to take down a 4 stack SWF? She's not that over powered, she just has good mobility. She can't even get over a window while using her ability. Sure she has good tracking abilities, but there's good survivor perks to counter it. Iron will, so on and so on. She isn't even that oppressive... A good nurse is oppressive and any killer who's good at the killer can still win games.
So what's going to be next? Plague? Any killer that actually can do a decent job?
Comments
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A cynical or "killer biased" view as survivors might dismiss it would be because they got the devs to nerf (or "slightly adjust") the nurse and now changed target to the next in line.
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Yeah. I think overbearing survivors are a major problem. The only thing about nurse's addons that needed fixing is the omegablink, but that's it.
Spirit only needs a tweak to prayer beads. Messing any more with her power will just weaken her and the game needs strong killers.
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people really need to stop assuming anyone who complains about something does it just because that something is strong. it only shows you don't actually know or care about what the other side is arguing and let's me know you aren't open for debate
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People don't like the Spirit because her power once boiled down is just a coin flip guessing game. I've seen the arguments on here and most people will tell you that running to a window will just ruin the Spirit but most of them give you the wrong advice to counter her.
You don't really learn to counter the Spirit's power, more so you learn to take 'better guesses' against her to avoid getting hit, however if you do get hit you're pretty much going down unless you guess correctly at a pallet you might be at.
I don't mind her, but they do need to tweak Prayer Beads, it practically removes all counterplay to her.
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Her power isn't a mindgame, it's a coinflip that's heavily favored for The Spirit. You also can't reliably counter her without perks (like you can every other killer in the game).
Also prayer beads.
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In my experience you can't really counter a Spirit's tracking once the player becomes good enough.
All you can do is make tracking more difficult and hope the Spirit misjudges a few of her phase shifts.
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My poor Rinny Rin Rin 💜
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I'm not sure if it's sudden, it seems like it's been building for a while, but it's definitely reached a fever pitch.
From the outside looking in, as someone who doesn't play Spirit or survivor, it seems like it's because Spirit flips the game on its head. Typically, killers chase after survivors, hoping they'll make a mistake. With Spirit, it's the opposite. Survivors rely on the killer making mistakes because they don't have enough info to make informed counterplays.
Against good survivors, most killers have to bait out mistakes. Make them commit to something they shouldn't, draw them out of a safe spot, etc. Hiding the red stain is one of the most basic examples.
Spirit doesn't seem like she really needs to bother with any of that. She just uses her power, instant mindgame. It's like getting stealth ganked in a MMORPG, people get uniquely furious because they feel like there was nothing they could do.
That's my take, anyway.
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I keep reading that she has no counterplay, which really means “I can’t run a circle and loop her for 30 second and then drop a pallet and run to the next one.”
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Not really
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Usually the killer Mains are correct on the assumption though, 80% of the survivor community seems to act like strong characters should be nerfed so they have easy games. No one seems to want a challenge in the gaming community as a whole.
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Then the killer mains also want easy games since they keep complaining about gentimes/adrenaline/ds etc.
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I play killer and survivor on and off mostly, and I dunno what the problem is with adrenaline is. Gen times could be better tbh, or at least more tolerable on both sides, and decisive is honestly fine as it is. It punishes you for focusing down and being an dick to someone
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It's not that, its the fact that her power is just a guessing game. People will obviously feel cheesed and cheated if they just get stomped by Spirit's over and over which seems to be more common these days than it ever was before. Sure there are jukes you can do to increase your odds of not getting hit but at the end of the day the coin toss is heavily in the Spirit's favour.
In short if the person playing Spirit is good with her then you're going to go down.
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What you say is mostly true but there is a ds or gen times complaint almost every day. Most killer mains accuse survivors of wanting just easy games but in reality they do the exact same thing.
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It's all the same thing; a coin flip and prayer beads. Sure, prayer beads could have a nerf to being silent to having a bit of a sound to it. But it boils down to the fact they just want someone they can bully and get easier wins again.
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Because people would rather something be nerfed than to have to actually learn. That's this community for you.
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Adrenaline is whatever imo. DS is annoying in the fact if everyone is on their third hook and you pick up one person who's downed and then they just DS but say "oh you're just tunneling."
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It wasn't all that sudden, really.
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I'm guessing that with the news that Nurse was going to have an addon rework most of the Meta Killer Mains started to switch to Spirit out of fear the nurse would be ruined
Add on to the fact Spirit is much easier to play than Nurse, and you got a lot of survivors complaining about Spirit now because a lot of players are running spirit
Personally, I feel the second chance perk/insta heal meta needs to be tweaked before any sort of "nerf" is applied to the Spirit
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Sudden? Many (and me including) hated her since release.
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Sad thing is, it is not really a challenge at all. A Challenge would be something you can do stuff about. This is not the case with Spirit.
The Survivor is forced to act in a certain way, while Spirit has all the ability to act and react. Like a Spirit standing still at a Pallet always has the advantage, if the Survivor is vaulting back, she can hit. If he is moving, she can react and move the same way. And if in doubt, she can bump into the Survivor anyway.
So yeah, not really a challenge, simply a guessing game.
Just to give a comparison:
To people who have played Dark Souls, those are challenging games. And then there is the not so good little brother Dark Souls 2. There is one part where you get attacked by a big enemy who crashes trough a door, which can result in you being dead. There is no way to see that this is gonna happen, and this is not a challenge at all during your first playthrough.
You can compare that with Spirit - you dont know what to do, you can only guess. And if you guessed right, it is only this - guessing right. You did not even outplay the Spirit at this point, because this would mean that you actually knew what is gonna happen.
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So you didnt read any arguments and didnt understand any of them. Thats sad. Also that you never saw how the opinions were since release.
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We counter doctors and nurses without perks reliably now? Hrmm.
Also, it's only a coin flip if you lack the required materials for a mindgame.
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Once changes are made about previous issues, people will find something else that bothers them.
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I think the only people that have an issue are those who don't understand what we mean by a "mind game".
I get the impression that most people play the mind games only superficially. In anotherwords, they look at the situation as it is now and don't look at what happened at the past several loops to establish a pattern of behavior. So they can't see past the current loop they are struggling with.
You see this when you go up against bad nurses who keep falling for the double-back trick. These are the people who can't remember that the last dozen blinks you double back so you keep wasting their time. They're slaves to their flowchart-gaming and just go on automatic without engaging their brain until something finally switches on in their head and they finally try a short blink expecting the double back.
I feel like a majority of the survivor playerbase fell into this flowchart gaming as it's been mindless to survive for so long. They never had to "Switch on" and adapt themselves accordingly.
Those who really get into the mind game are remembering the last several loops they ran against their opponants and looking for a pattern they can adapt to and and exploit for an opening. The experts are thinking even further, they're anticipating where the next loop is and planning their routes.
I'm not saying there isn't certain things about her that aren't problematic (Collision during Spirit Beads for sure is stupid... and it's debatable she even needs player collision when phasing to be any good if she can hear you while phased). But to absolutely refuse to adapt and at least try new things to go up against her is absolutely unacceptable to me.
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They mean like "Is she using her power? Or just faking it? Is she vaulting or not" Stuff like that are just a coin-flip.
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Plague doesn't do a good job...
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For the first couple loops, yes.
But after that, you establish a pattern of behavior and start working around it.
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Simple things like animations that literally every other killer in the game has, is for some reason too much to ask for from a Spirit. Every killer in the game has visual animations when they're using their power, as well as oftentimes audio cues. A huntress pulling back a hatchet has the hatchet VISUALLY wind up as well as the audible grunting. The lack of an animation for vaulting is just kinda silly since she DOES have an animation on HER end.
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Because Spirit is on the same level against good SWF teams. They don't like strong killers. And yes, after the Nurse nerf they will nerf Spirit, and then survivors will jump at Billy and Plague
Post edited by PoisonN on3 -
Spirit is fine, but Survivors arent really used to being challenged. They have their Survivor Rule Book and they are entitled. So their standards are so low for Killer that when a Killer is actually decent, they have a tough time.
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That uh. Isn't at all even remotely close to what it means but ok bud.
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1. After sounds were fixed, it was a massive indirect buff to Spirit. This is what sparked the idea that she's too strong.
2. Playing against her isn't a mindgame, it's a coinflip heavily biased in her favor.
3. Stridor makes the game ez mode since it counters Iron will. You would need to stack iron will and no mither to counter Stridor.
4. Prayer beads is OP and needs to be nerfed (increasing the rarity means nothing. It needs a real feasible nerf)
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Because they can't bully her like everyone below the top 3
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Except you aren't emblematic of all killer mains. Your sentiment might be reasonable (I actually agree. Adrenaline and DS are fine but gen times needs some serious addressing bc it's ridiculous that Ruin is such a core perk) but just bc you associate yourself with killers does not mean your opinion is representative of all killer players.
The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of killers who complain about adrenaline, gen times, and Decisive strike for all the wrong reasons. And there are Surviviors who complain about things like Nurse, Doctor, and Plague for all the wrong reasons. But they are 100% right to set their scope on Spirit here. She's one of the big 3. The big 3 strongest killers in the game. The bastions that stand against the might of a 4 man coordinated SWF team. Now they should probably buff underperforming killers like Plague, Legion, Doctor, Pig, Bubba, and probably even Hag tbh. But it's a simple sentiment. If something is OP, nerf it. If its UP, buff it.
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I don't get it either, Nothings changed and now people decide to dc when I play her. Seriously its like when legion came out. Why do survivors act so childish and rage quit bc a killer they dont like is against them
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Plague? Who complains about Plague? I believe she’s a pretty strong killer if utilized correctly but Hag, Billy, Demogorgon, and Huntress are arguably stronger. I rarely see players complain that Plague is too strong.
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You can't mindgame what you can't see. Even against Nurse you can see in which direction she can blink and how long she has charged her blink for. Against Spirit you might just be able to make out her footsteps but most of the time not due to the loud chase music.
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@Sairek This so much.
Nobody bothers to read anymore before they make these threads.
For me personally, the core problem I find with her is her ability to hear. It’s too good. Too good that her weakness which is to not be able to see survivors becomes pointless. You can easily track someone through their grunts/sounds, this even with iron will.
My suggestion would be that maybe the survivors’ sound have like an echo effect so she in order to pin point where they are she has to kind of guess.
Thats just been my experience playing as and against her.
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The decisive comment is true, but it can also be weaponised by survivors.
SWF in particular use decisive in conjunction with borrowed time to get saves that they should not be able to get, or they use it to interfere with a chase and block the killer from downing their team mate.
It is also just plain unfair when they just run into you because they were not looking and you can't do anything but leave them there or eat the stun and lose emblem progress.
As for the topic, spirit is boring to play against if they have decent sound equipment. They can hear you moving or groaning if injured.
If they want to balance her then they need to force the chase music to continue to play while in phase mode if it was already playing when the spirit entered it.
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My problem with Spirit is that I find her incredibly unfun too fight. Her power is fine base, but once you start adding Addons it just becomes a chore and a half. I sometimes feel it's complete luck if I get away from a Spirit instead of it being from actual skill/mindgames.
And Prayer beads just needs too be deleted. It's completely overpowered and no side should be forced too use a perk just too counter a build you may not even run into on a killer you may not face.
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Not with good Spirits. good Spirits will mix up their mindgames, and make it impossible too predict their movements.
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Gen times are no fun for either side if a game is over even before you could see the Killer it will be boring as ######### which I had several times now, Adrenaline is a mega crutch perk and is just annoying to deal with because you can't deal with it, DS is still DS an unfun perk that now has somewhat of a proper use but is still far to strong
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Well, noed is also a mega crutch perk if you ask me. My point is that killers complain just as much as survivors.
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Hey people are quick to assume because of this situation that coincidentally has happened
Survivors: "nerf nurse blah blah"
Bhvr: nerfing nurse
Survivors: "nerf spirit!!"
the trend will continue...
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For once, you are correct (about the complaining)
Which is a good sign the game is actually pretty close to balanced as both sides are complaining.
Only reason I consider nerfing Spirit as you aren't hearing a lot of of people call her underpowered - and that's a big red flag for me.
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Spirit doesn't really have a consistently or reliable counter unlike other killers, that's why most people find her unfun to verse.
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So good spirits can fool you and bad ones are easy to counter, seems like a good power level
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No, if a strong Spirit is incredibly hard, if not impossible too counter, then there is a problem. The game should be fair for both sides, not completely one sided like Spirit is right now.
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