Bloodpoints for survivors.

TheBean

Bloodpoints for survivors suck.

Most games you, as a survivor, are there for the whole length of the match. The points should equate to that. Killers shouldn't be making higher amounts of points, simply because it is 4 vs 1.

I have no problem with making survivor harder. However you need to balance that difficulty with more bloodpoints to make it enjoyable to play survivor.

All I can see now is with the upcoming patch, is more people switching to killer, since it will be more fun and also because you earn bloodpoints way easier.

Sometimes as survivor, you jump into a match, play a few minutes, die.. then move onto the next match. But if you are staying the length of the match, you should be earning more bloodpoints, enough that makes it worth while. Survivors should be earning as much as killers if they are staying that long in the match. It isn't always as simple as, you need to do more to get points. There is only so much you can do depending on the speed of the match.

I've been playing this game for over 2 years. The point gains for survivor suck really bad. It makes it so you don't want to play survivor, just for that reason alone. So if you are going to balance them out a bit to killers, then you need to increase their bloodpoints so it isn't just another reason not to play survivor.

I hate playing survivor matches... spending 20 minutes and walking out with 15K or lower. The next patch is going to lower survivors gains simply because more will die off quicker. In turn that is going to make people switch over to killer or just quit the game.

My suggestion would be to lower the amount for escaping and spread those points out over everything else that is earned during the match. Chases should earn you more points, since they will get harder as more patches come out. Being chase and breaking the chase as a survivor should earn big points. Escaping shouldn't be where survivors earn the bulk of their points.

TLDR; I can consistently play killer and get close to 25K or more, with ease. As a survivor it can be a struggle to get up to 20K, for the same amount of time invested.

Master

Basically I agree with you.
as killer its a lot easier to earn bloodpoints than as survivor, especially if you play stealthy.

However, if you play as SWF and genrush, I am confident that you earn bloodpoints quite quickly

Also a thing you shouldnt forget is that if survivor would earn as much BP as killer, then there would be 1 reason less to play killer

TheBean

@Master said:
Basically I agree with you.
as killer its a lot easier to earn bloodpoints than as survivor, especially if you play stealthy.

However, if you play as SWF and genrush, I am confident that you earn bloodpoints quite quickly

Also a thing you shouldnt forget is that if survivor would earn as much BP as killer, then there would be 1 reason less to play killer

Not really on the gen rush.. unless you stop and get other things along the way. If you aren't the one being chased, you are only earning objective points. Gen rushing isn't good for points. You basically have to slow down... Maybe do some sabo to get the boldness, hit a few gens... get a couple totems and chests... and hope for a few saves.

I think though once the new patch comes out, there will be more people switching over to killer. Might be a good thing to have a reason for more players to stay on survivor.

Master

@TheBean said:

@Master said:
Basically I agree with you.
as killer its a lot easier to earn bloodpoints than as survivor, especially if you play stealthy.

However, if you play as SWF and genrush, I am confident that you earn bloodpoints quite quickly

Also a thing you shouldnt forget is that if survivor would earn as much BP as killer, then there would be 1 reason less to play killer

Not really on the gen rush.. unless you stop and get other things along the way. If you aren't the one being chased, you are only earning objective points. Gen rushing isn't good for points. You basically have to slow down... Maybe do some sabo to get the boldness, hit a few gens... get a couple totems and chests... and hope for a few saves.

I think though once the new patch comes out, there will be more people switching over to killer. Might be a good thing to have a reason for more players to stay on survivor.

Objective points and escape points are quite a lot if you consider how fast you can earn them

MegaWaffle

@TheBean said:
Bloodpoints for survivors suck.

Most games you, as a survivor, are there for the whole length of the match. The points should equate to that. Killers shouldn't be making higher amounts of points, simply because it is 4 vs 1.

I have no problem with making survivor harder. However you need to balance that difficulty with more bloodpoints to make it enjoyable to play survivor.

All I can see now is with the upcoming patch, is more people switching to killer, since it will be more fun and also because you earn bloodpoints way easier.

Sometimes as survivor, you jump into a match, play a few minutes, die.. then move onto the next match. But if you are staying the length of the match, you should be earning more bloodpoints, enough that makes it worth while. Survivors should be earning as much as killers if they are staying that long in the match. It isn't always as simple as, you need to do more to get points. There is only so much you can do depending on the speed of the match.

I've been playing this game for over 2 years. The point gains for survivor suck really bad. It makes it so you don't want to play survivor, just for that reason alone. So if you are going to balance them out a bit to killers, then you need to increase their bloodpoints so it isn't just another reason not to play survivor.

I hate playing survivor matches... spending 20 minutes and walking out with 15K or lower. The next patch is going to lower survivors gains simply because more will die off quicker. In turn that is going to make people switch over to killer or just quit the game.

My suggestion would be to lower the amount for escaping and spread those points out over everything else that is earned during the match. Chases should earn you more points, since they will get harder as more patches come out. Being chase and breaking the chase as a survivor should earn big points. Escaping shouldn't be where survivors earn the bulk of their points.

TLDR; I can consistently play killer and get close to 25K or more, with ease. As a survivor it can be a struggle to get up to 20K, for the same amount of time invested.

One of the main reason Killers make more bloodpoints is because of how the "economy" currently works. Survivors can get items and add-ons within the match that they can bring out. Killers don't have that option and are forced to spend in a rng web to try and find what they need. If Killers didn't make more points it would be even more nightmarish to find anything good in the web.

Troylus

I generally agree with your analysis, although Megawaffle does make a good point that killers must spend BP on add-ons that don't carry between games. They earn more on average, but their cost per game is also generally higher too - I think.

Anyway, my question is, what survivor behaviors do you think should award more BP? The implication here is that whatever behaviors you incentivise, you'll wind up getting more of.

Your original post suggests that you feel like there should be a better return on time invested. (And I agree!)

Crazy idea: do you think that maybe there should be bonus BP based upon the order of your survival? That is, if you make it through to the end and you're the last survivor out, you get a bonus? (This would encourage/reward survivors to stick around longer than their companions. Is that desirable behavior?)

For example: First to Escape is worth 5K, Second is 6K, Third is 7K, and Last is 8K?

Baphomett

I immediately have visions of 4 survivors standing in the exit area emoting at each other until the killer shows up or wandering aimlessly around the map for 10 minutes after the gates open while the bored af killer stares at a wall.

Please, no, this would just encourage holding the game hostage after the gates open, which is already a thing and incredibly annoying for killers.

Dragonredking

Until killer are able to keep their addon if they 4k their is no reason for survivor to make bloodpoint as easily as a killer.
They don't need to continuisly restock on addon unlike killer.
Killer can't get free addon from the match like a survivor can either.

Shadoureon

I think survival should be given better ways of earning. Maybe the 250 points for succesfully escaping a killer after a chase should go there. Makes no sense healing yourself does.

yeet

killers don't get to keep their addons while survivors do
let me keep my addons then we can talk

TheBean

@Master said:
Objective points and escape points are quite a lot if you consider how fast you can earn them

Sort of. But the gen rush concept is slowly going to dwindle down over the course of more patches. I'm thinking more long term where gen rushing becomes more of the past.

@Troylus said:
Anyway, my question is, what survivor behaviors do you think should award more BP? The implication here
is that whatever behaviors you incentivise, you'll wind up getting more of.

Chasing and breaking off the chase. Maybe more point scoring on things that break chases. Or just a little bit more over the course of the match. We don't really need 5K at the end of the match. It could be 2500 points for escaping. Then spread about 5K more points in the other categories, or just survival, over the course of the match. You can get a boat load of points from escaping out the hatch. Why not make that lower and add in the ability to earn more survival points over the match instead of that last few seconds.

@Baphomett said:
I immediately have visions of 4 survivors standing in the exit area emoting at each other until the killer shows up or wandering aimlessly around the map for 10 minutes after the gates open while the bored af killer stares at a wall.

Please, no, this would just encourage holding the game hostage after the gates open, which is already a thing and incredibly annoying for killers.

I don't think there would be much change as it is now. If anything people might make more plays at the end if certain things were higher in points. However the issue you describe really comes down to how the Devs treat the end game and how they need to figure out a good way of wrapping up the game, to prevent having to herd survivors out the door.

@Dragonredking said:
Until killer are able to keep their addon if they 4k their is no reason for survivor to make bloodpoint as easily as a killer.
They don't need to continuisly restock on addon unlike killer.
Killer can't get free addon from the match like a survivor can either.

@yeet said:
killers don't get to keep their addons while survivors do
let me keep my addons then we can talk

Killers earn lots of points, it isn't really an issue of Killer vs Survivor, once some of the new balance changes come out, more survivors are going to die during the match. Tougher matches for survivors should equate to having the ability to earn more points near the beginning of the match rather then at the end. it might not be an issue of increasing the amount of points they get, but how they earn them. The earlier in the match you can rack up points, the better.

The Devs can adjust the percentage of rarity on items if they give survivors more points, so the economy really isn't an issue. Not asking for another 10K per survivor, maybe just about 2.5K to 4K point boost. I can spend the points I earn as killer on survivors and vise versa so the economy really isn't an issue.

@Shadoureon said:
I think survival should be given better ways of earning. Maybe the 250 points for succesfully escaping a killer after a chase should go there. Makes no sense healing yourself does.

I agree, survival should earn more points over the match rather then just a big bunch cause you made it out.

From my personal experience, I used to play survivor all the time. Killer to me was frustrating and just a chore. Now it isn't as bad, it can be pretty fun playing killer. Plus, you get lots of points, even if you play half-assed. More players, imo, will feel this way as more balance changes come out. There needs to be more incentive to play survivor as I see the survivor population dropping. I'm actually getting to the point were I don't enjoy survivor as much, simply because they just don't earn enough points for the same amount of time I can earn when playing killer. I don't think it should be this way.

theArashi

Did it ever slip your mind that killer does more during the match?
When I finish the match I usually get around 30k points unless I get genrushed in 4 minutes.
Is it because killer gets more points or is it because I chased,downed, hooked survivors over and over constantly for entire game?

Doom_Punk

Killers are doing much more than Survivors so it makes sense they get paid more.

Just play some Killer games with Doctor if you need points and Survivor for easy games.

Runiver

They did improve survivor points a lot already.
Now the two roles do get nearly as much BP tbh.

It's just easier to stock up to 30k in a winning round of killer. But these rounds are usually much longer. So what you get over the time as surv is about the same.

Blueberry

This is intentionally because it’s one of the few ways to get more people to play killer. Otherwise you’d have a lot longer que times because so many less people want to play killer because of the games complete imbalance.

Mister_xD

okay, let me just ask you this: who do you think has more action going on? who has more chases? who has more pressure? -The KILLER. And because he has a lot more action and pressure, he gets rewarded more points than a single survivor who basically has ~ 1 - 4 chases and in general just sits at a generator, holding M1 and sometimes pressing space bar.

TheBean

@theArashi said:
Did it ever slip your mind that killer does more during the match?
When I finish the match I usually get around 30k points unless I get genrushed in 4 minutes.
Is it because killer gets more points or is it because I chased,downed, hooked survivors over and over constantly for entire game?

Doesn't really matter who does more then whom. Not saying killers shouldn't get more points. I'm just saying, with making the game harder for survivors, they need more points. Killer is harder, they get more points. If survivor now is harder, they need more points to keep people interested in continuing to play.

@Runiver said:
They did improve survivor points a lot already.
Now the two roles do get nearly as much BP tbh.

It's just easier to stock up to 30k in a winning round of killer. But these rounds are usually much longer. So what you get over the time as surv is about the same.

I don't believe that they nearly get as much, even over time. I've played survivor for along time.... I could say, if I played killer for that same amount of time, I feel, I would have earned double the amount of points. If the survivor is escaping, they've spent the same amount of time in the match, usually. Yet that survivor even with escaping will earn considerably less then the killer would in the same length of the match.

Playing a few hours of killer compared to playing the same amount of time in survivor, I can earn way more points playing killer. Less matches, more points.

@Blueberry said:
This is intentionally because it’s one of the few ways to get more people to play killer. Otherwise you’d have a lot longer que times because so many less people want to play killer because of the games complete imbalance.

And now this will be an issue with survivors. You need 4 survivors per match. The Devs are making it harder for survivors, so they need to boost the points otherwise people are just going to switch to killer to get those points. We are going to start to see less people play survivor now.

@Mister_xD said:
okay, let me just ask you this: who do you think has more action going on? who has more chases? who has more pressure? -The KILLER. And because he has a lot more action and pressure, he gets rewarded more points than a single survivor who basically has ~ 1 - 4 chases and in general just sits at a generator, holding M1 and sometimes pressing space bar.

The game is also tougher for killers, so they get more points. Now they make the game tougher for survivors, easier for killers... People will stop playing survivor because the rewards just aren't there. There is no rewards for ranking up, there is now low rewards for playing harder at survivor.

If the survivor is only working on gens then escaping, they are only going to make about 13K... That isn't allot. Any survivor knows, to get points they need to do more #########... Break totems, break hooks, get chased, make saves.... So survivor are only playing an M1 simulator?.... You can't equate points earned by a survivor only working on gens to a killer.

A survivor needs to bring in WGLF, Sabo and other point scoring perks just to come close to a killer who isn't even running BBQ and Chili. If the killer has BBQ, they can walk out of a match with 60K, not including any other scoring offerings. Good luck doing that with survivor, even with WGLF.

@Doom_Punk said:
Killers are doing much more than Survivors so it makes sense they get paid more.

Just play some Killer games with Doctor if you need points and Survivor for easy games.

And it is this mentality that is going to start ruining this game. Go play killer for points... So why play survivor then?

Everyone can't say that after this last patch, survivor is easier. Survivor is getting harder with every patch. The higher difficulty has to translate into more points. If survivors are going to die quicker, then they need more points near the beginning and middle of the match, rather then at the end. Survivors are going to either switch to killer for points or flat out stop playing. Then no one wins.