General Discussions
General Discussions
Decisive Strike And Lockers
Man I do so in freaking enjoy not being able to slug a recently hooked survivor that is openly and boldly doing a gen in my face because they ran into the locker right next to them thus forcing me to eat a 5 second stun while they run away and I lose time and all manner of pressure because of one stupid freaking perk
But I tunnel so I clearly deserved it
T O T A L L Y
Comments
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Don't tunnel
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You guys are like an answering machine and just endlessly repeat the same thing over and over again. Enlighten me on how any situation I can bring up is tunneling?
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don't pull them out its pretty simple to do I do it as killer all the time
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I'm clearly memeing, like the people that say "Do bones" to defend NOED.
Kek.
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Yes I should leave the survivor sitting in the locker right next to the 80% gen and go find someone else
So here's my problem
I'm playing Clown on Rancid Abbator I don't tunnel anyone the whole game however the survivors made a mistake and I downed both the Nea and Ace in a short span of time on other sides of the map
After I finish hooking the Ace I go back to a generator on the other side of the map that's close to being completed, guess what Nea is there. She runs in a locker and I'm forced to eat a stun because that gen is almost done. I have to go back to the gen by ace because it's also close, he hops in a locker, I have to eat a stun there too
Whooohooo so in this 1 gen left scenario I had to lose two slugs twice to a SINGLE perk because this single perk allows the survivor an invincibility window of 60 seconds
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You're getting one answer... it's really the only justified one. Just wait out the decisive strike or bait a head on. It really isn't hard to not tunnel.
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Honestly just eat it and take them out of the game that's what I do
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So wait anywhere from 60/40/30 seconds essentially? That's an incredibly huge time waster even worse than just taking the stun
Remind me how is it my fault that I "tunneled" when the survivor is working on a almost finished gen while I was on the other side of the map
Extend decisive strike to 2 minutes I don't frigging care, it should not work in lockers I should able to punish the survivor for making such a mistake the fact I can't because of one perk well, there's nothing else I can say
Decisive Strike is a crutch
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Or if you're The Trapper just slap a trap right in front of their locker and foil their diabolical plan.
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I agree that DS in it's current state is dumb. It's meant as an anti tunneling perk, but it just gives survivors a "get out of jail free" card. Honestly, it needs too deactivate if someone else was hooked, that way it can only be used for anti tunneling, and not for free wins on the survivor for playing like garbage.
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It isn't tunneling when a survivor is doing a gen infront of you, then they run into a locker and force you too eat a DS. That is the exact opposite of tunneling. DS right now needs a simply change, make it where it de-activates if someone else is hooked. That way survivors can't use it for garbage plays because they have a "get out of jail free" card.
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60 seconds is far too long. That survivor could pop off a hook, go work on a gen to around 60% and then get downed and STILL being able to DS. I'm not sure why people think that's okay.
I never tunnel, camp, and barely slug if I can help it and I still eat DS. It's a pain right in the... hmm... Entity.
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if a survivor do that, from the time they get off a hook to doing a gen and get spotted by you, then run to a locker, should be 20~30 sec.
I would wait that 30 sec, that little time for another hook, not to mention its the second hook/death hook, Id say that's a good deal
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DS is fine periodt
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waiting that 30 seconds will more then likely cost you in the end. that's almost half of a gen that's done because you waited, and this isn't including things like Toolboxes and Prove Thyself.
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I usually lunge at the locker on the left side and somehow hit them. They’ll crawl outside - downed.
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If a survivor gets a gen to 60% and you get DSd that couldn't be any less than your own fault. Given that it probably took them 5-10 seconds to reach the gen from the hook you literally just have to wait like 10 seconds before picking them up or pulling them out the locker and you get a free hook.
60% of a gen = 48 seconds + time it took to run from hook to gen. Assuming it took them ONLY 5 seconds to reach the gen (were hooked right next to it) then you literally just have to wait 7 seconds before grabbing them out the locker.
I can tell you from experience it usually takes more than 5 seconds to reach the gen. Even 10 is pretty damn quick.
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Survivors like always found a way to adapt and abuse game mechanics ha
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There are more than one gen. no time to wait. time is SO precious as a killer
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Excuse me for not caring about one % value in my post I made as a theoretical example for why 60 seconds is too long for DS.
Sure, but what if they did less (cause one number is so important) and you have to wait LONGER for a timer that will assure them getting away or wasting EVEN MORE TIME on a chase that you had to WAIT for.
Have you played against teams that only focus gens or had games FLY by cause gens are popping like popcorn? Cause as far as I see you haven't. it takes 80 seconds to do a gen with no perks, no item, and NO GREAT SKILL CHECKS.
So, for 3/4s of ONE GEN being done without doing ANYTHING to speed it up, that guy has immunity to being picked up or out of that locker. You leave, he's back on that gen, laughing in your face. (being a bit dramatic there but still) You stay? All of the other survivors get to do gens and pop them.
I'm not even bringing up the people that use unbreakable, or the Head-on/ DS double punch.
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If the survivors are so optimal that they're just flying through gens, then the survivor could have survived in a chase a lot longer than 10-15 seconds.
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Are you reading what I am saying?
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Almost any situation where you have to wait more than 10-15 seconds is typically not one where you actually downed and hooked another survivor though. There's very few situations where a survivor is going to have a significant amount of time left on DS where you aren't outright tunneling them.
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Only if you guarantee to get another hook in less than 30 sec.
if you let him go, you will still have 3ppl doing gen, and you still gonna take 30sec to get one hook, more than 30sec most likely if you are not spirit or nurse, AND the new guy you chase might have never been on the hook.
VS you wait that 30sec, you guarantee a 'Second hook' or even death hook
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I'm certain we will see a fix for this soon. It's so obviously a broken mechanic. I'm betting any thing other than running and vaulting will cancel the DS timer.
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10-15 seconds can still end you as Killer man.
And i've been DS'ed after hooking someone else before. They prolly had about 2 seconds left or something and then I pick them up and BAM.
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Decisive Strike is just as much of a crutch perk as NOED. It rewards the survivor for screwing up. It should cause Exhaustion.
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This. Exactly this.
It's almost as bad as body blocking cause you have BT. People abuse things cause they can.
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Once again if youre getting hit with a 2 seconds DS, you could have avoided that by waiting two seconds. If youre so strapped for pressure that youre getting destroyed by 10-15 second wait on DS you likely were gonna get destroyed either way because a team that's so optimal that 15 seconds is significant, chances are they literally could have looped you for longer than that anyways.
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DS at its worst is a free life, and at its best single-handedly wins games. It lasts an entire minute in a game that can be over in 4-5; and can turn you borderline invincible if played well lategame.
Yeah, that's really all you need to know. Not sure why people are still arguing that it is not overpowered.
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SO what you are saying is I need to count for 4 different people, up to 60 WHILE dealing with the pressure of being a Killer.
Yeah, you arn't listening and I don't see your point to just wait it out, cause that isn't how it works in my experience. People use it to exploit how it works. Body Blocking cause you have BT or DS for example. But sure, next time i'll stare at that locker longingly for 10 seconds then get hit with Head-on and DS even then cause I miscounted by 1-5 seconds.
Have fun in the Fog, man. I'm done with this.
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They cant bodyblock from inside a locker, if they body block, slug them.
Edit: also shout out to the "I can't keep track of DS timers therefore I shouldn't have too" logic
Tracking DS timers is a skill, not an impossibility.
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Wow, so you pick that out of everything I say. I meant in general, not from inside the locker. Duh. This just proves that you arnt trying to listen or understand and just want to pick apart what anyone says to you to prove yourself "Right" even if it makes no sense. Good Day.
Edit: Slug them, so they can get picked up, Unbreakable, or just DS me cause I miscounted. Mhm.
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I hate it when survivors call NOED a crutch perk, then turn around and defend a crutch perk like Decisive Strike. Even the worst player in the world can get mileage out of Decisive Strike, so long as they hit the skill check.
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Your survivor main is showing.
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Since you want to insult me a bit, I'll come back for one more thing.
You go play a lower Tier Killer at even a decent rank. Then while you are juggling everything else, count to 60 for each survivor when you down them. Or even when you hook them. See if you can keep track of it.
I'll wait.
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If you miscount, that means you made a mistake and got punished for it, thats how the game works.
There's a good chance they're going to get picked up while slugged, but the point of slugging them isn't so that you can hook them later, the point of slugging is to temporarily make that survivor do nothing until someone saves (unless they have unbreakable, but thats two perk slots, and also only works once.) You slug them to apply pressure while you get someone else downed and on the hook. Slug one person, chase another, another person has to pick up the slug. Thats one person on gens. If no one saves now you have one slug, one hook, and only two free survivors to actually do something. Chase another and the game is basically on the shoulders of that last survivor to do some saving before the entire game comes crashing down. They probably will save but guess what, no one is working gens. That means you're gaining progress and they're not.
Of course if you're playing a low tier killer you're going to struggle, that's not a problem with DS. That's a problem with the killer needing buffs. With a low tier killer, you will struggle against optimal teams regardless of whether they DS you or not. You can't really consider perk balance from the perspetive of 1 killer vs a survivor team you have to consider all the killers. Ideally the weaker killers would be more on a level to deal with DS like a billy, but that's not a DS problem. You get to a point where you have to say either the weaker killer must be stronger or the stronger killer that can deal with DS must be weaker because the stronger killer has no issue with it but the weaker killer does.
Also if you can't keep track of DS in your head, literally just use a stop watch on your phone. Anytime someone gets unhooked press start, use the lap feature for more than one DS. If you have more than two DS active at any given time that means you already have really good pressure on the survivors and can typically afford to eat a DS even if you do make a mistake. Also having 3+ DS active at once is going to be a rarity vs optimal teams unless you're playing a high tier killer.
If you take it as an insult when I say it's a skill to keep track of DS timers, you need to take things a bit less personally. It was by no means an insult.
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What are you talking about? I literally provided you a valid, constant working strategy to prevent it.
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Well it supposed to stop tunneling, which it does.
I don't think it's supposed to be: "Hey it's lategame and I have DS, let me facetank a hit to BT unhook someone in the killers face, then get hooked, deliverance myself off, and laugh my way to the exit gate" which is currently how I use it now. Total crutch perk for sure, but it's a ton of fun to use.
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At least you took the time to explain your reasoning this time. I approve of that. I still think that we should just agree to disagree though. I hold the idea that 60 seconds is too long, and you think the opposite. There is nothing wrong with that. I am glad that you DID take the time to type that all out and think about it. It's rare to see someone on here that really thinks there post out. So for that, you have my respect. Now, and I mean this really nice just to give context, I Do hope you have fun in the fog.
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Just to clarify, I think 60 seconds is a fine amount of time as it is. I wouldn't mind it being lower if the timer didn't tick down while slugged though. That way you can't just avoid the perk by slugging but the abuse able situations are also reduced. I also wouldn't mind DS deactivating when someone else gets hooked as long as it doesn't deactivate while slugged.
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okay THAT i agree with. Make it turn off when someone else is hooked. That's a good idea.
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how is going into a locker a exploit?
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Devs have recently said that there are no plans to change DS in the near future.
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Exactly. More often than not, DS is used as a tool to get away with plays that would otherwise be suicidal. Or it's used as a crutch by mediocre survivors to escape after they screw up.
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Sure, but as it is, DS does too many things too well. It needs some sort of drawback to discourage using it in every perk build that isn't pure stealth.
Right now, most perk builds at the higher ranks are virtually identical. At least one of the following perks is in almost every high-ranking build: Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, and Dead Hard. The meta revolves around having one second chance after another, no matter how many times the killer finds you and chases you down. It's beyond absurd when you can down a survivor 5 times and still not kill them.
Which is why you only see Nurse and Spirit at the highest ranks. They're the only ones who can find survivors and end chases fast enough to keep up with all the BS.
My suggestion is to make DS an Exhaustion perk. It still only works once, but it also causes Exhaustion, so you can't use it in tandem with Dead Hard and the like.
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People wanting to make the best of what they have and try to use perks as efficient as possible is not the definition of abuse. The fact that it's annoying doesn't mean you can just put incorrect tags on players.
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And your opinion doesn't change mine. They are doing it cause the perk allows them too, but was not designed for it. So, thank you for trying I suppose.
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Well, I was thinking that Decisive would trigger Exhaustion when you used it, and can't be used while Exhausted, but your idea could also work.
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That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Just like how killers try to use their tools as efficient as possible. What else would you expect from your enemy?
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