gen rush mindset
the topic is already a hot one, still just trying to express my part. i find it ironic and at the same time it amazes me how the same people who bring toolboxes and bnp and use all possible perks to gen rush asap, are the same people who complain about nurse and spirit. like how do you enjoy a game where you do everything asap and then go to the next match ? where do you see the fun and enjoyment in such a hurry ? if you "win" every match then eventually you will get bored and move on to a next game. i myself enjoy when i have "to work" for the win in this game. but still playing against survivors who want to end a round as soon as possible is not in the least fun. yes you dont have other objectives, but you dont have to bring toolboxes, not to mention bnp add on and other stuff. the other killers get bullied. you cannot chase endlessly a survivor by playing wraith or huntress or trapper etc etc. you know ppl who play killer want to have some fun too. and by that i mean not having to play spirit or nurse all the time. at least with these two killers you can breathe a little. with the others you have to try hard. you know the "ease" feeling you have when you play survivor ? you dont really get that by playing most of the killers. i'm not saying be nice to killers, like dont do your objectives or let them free hit/kill you. i'm just saying dont make it unnecessary unfun for killers, the same way you would not want killers to do to you. while tunneling and/or camping happens very often at yellow/green ranks because of lack of skill from the killer's part, at red/purple ranks it mostly happens because its almost impossible sometimes to do the killer's part with players who not only loop the correct way, but gen rush the hell out of the match. do you guys think the same?
Comments
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Wall of text
Needs TL;DR.
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There’s a difference between doing an objective and not enjoying playing against a certain killer. Also, if you get gen rushed, that’s usually the product of bad map pressure. Plus, holding M1 for 80 or so seconds is super boring.
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I honestly am bored to tears if I get Gen rushed as Killer. I'll go open the gate for them an everything. Get outta my match so I can have a fun one without people that just want to "GO GO GO GO GO GEN GEN GEN GEN"
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You didn't applies enough pressure. Good one.
Anyway, if survivors in your rank are playing good and doing the objective fast you have to find ways to stop them from doing so. A certain playstyle or killer as example.
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Yes, cause I can be in four places at once and protect every gen always. /s
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It’s not always the players fault, though. Some killers like clown don’t have good map pressure.
Don’t straw man what I’m saying. There’s plenty of ways this problem could be gone about but you can’t punish survivors for doing their objective, you can’t. You CAN however buff killer map pressure. Extending gen times would make survivor feel like more of a chore than it could be, especially with the aggressive play style being pushed for.
I think gen rush is a symptom of a more major survivor side issue, the lack of alternative objectives. If we had something else to do other than generators we wouldn’t have this issue.
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What does "Straw man" mean? I'm just literally telling you how I feel.
If it's the second thing, then sorry if i've been told by every survivor ever (okay just most, there are decent and nice survivors) to "JUST USSSEEEE MORE MAP PREUSSSSUREEE" so I assumed you were doing the same.
I wouldn't punish survivors for doing what they are supposed to. Where is the bloody sense in that?
I want them to buff up lower tier Killers so there is more Survivors have to deal with other that Miss WAAAHHHH and Miss BLINK. (like Legion for example. It's why i have a 6 page long "Rework Legion" Thread)
I feel we both assumed what the other meant there. We should stop that. A secondary objective would be rather neat. Just not sure what it could be.
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I agree, that's why i said certain killers or strategys. Wraith can be pretty good in high ranks with anti heal for example.
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Straw man means to construct a false argument attributing to the opposing persons side. Major logical fallacy.
I feel like we both have good intentions— but we’re approaching the topic with a sense of hostility that clouds our judgement.
What I was thinking was, is that killers need a map pressure buff, so others could be played. Most of the killers are like “survivors do gens to fast!!” And blatantly ignore what the other side is experiencing.
I just think an alternative objective would be one way to fix this, but there’s so many ways to go about it, it’s difficult to understand without miscommunication.
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I don't think most people (outside of swf) are trying to get the gens done as quickly as possible. I rarely bring an item. When I do it's because I want to be able to push out at least one gen quickly. You don't know what your team is going to be like. Also a toolbox makes sense. At the start of the game is when you can put the most pressure on gens. If you can get 2 or 3 gens done quickly you have a good chance to escape.
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the map pressure depends highly on what killer you are playing. you cant apply pressure with huntress for ex. the only way to do that is to get iridescent and one shot them. but ppl would dc. you cant get pressure with wraith. what would the invisible dude do ? spook you off a gen ? what pressure would you apply with trapper ? just a bad map like cornfield or the damn macmillan and you're screwed. the only solution is to main nurse ( now she's dead ), spirit or billy. but everyone hates them. why ? because they are the only ones who actually have map pressure. nerf nurse op add ons. fine with me. nerf prayer beads spirit, fine ( dont know about what needs to be nerfed on billy though, almost never play him). but the gen rush thing needs to be adressed. things cannot only change killer sided. yeah insta heals got changed. still that has nothing to do with the core of this game which is doing gens.
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Thank you. I've never heard the term before. Interesting, Makes me think of the giant straw men that olden time people would burn to ward off spirits or celebrate certain things.
That is the curse of text. Context is up to the reader, and here... well alot of people are used to hostile replies.
Map reworking would help with map pressure I think, but alot.... at least half the roster (if not more) of Killers have bad map pressure. It's a big issue, and one that is.... made worse by Survivors that bring things to focus utterly on the gens, cause they know they can get away with focusing on them.
The weaker Killers need a buff to help them deal with this kinda thing. I'm sure MOST survivors would be happy to see a Clown or a Wraith at higher ranks, or Legion (who i'm most fond of). Trapper could even come out to play seriously for once.
If the buff was not enough (cause as far as i can see it, the buff NEEDS to happen. I could be wrong but bleh) then the Devs could look into a second objective for Survivors, or even implement them at the same time. Perhaps gas cans?
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if i could do it that way i would have done it. i actually put a few minutes into writing it so that before people comment nonsense, they actually read what i am trying to express to people
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It's a dilemma. They are just preparing to genrush against tryhard Nurse and spirits while the killer side is preparing to dominate against tryhard genrush. It's not like you can discuss with the killer pre lobby "no genrush, no spirit pls. Alright?" or something else. Both sides are just calculating the worstcase.
Post edited by justarandy on1 -
in these 3 weeks i have played, i have only seen solos 10 % of the time at most. 3 ppl swf are all the time, the 4 man swf horror is like 20%. 2 ppl swf is manageable. imo if 2-3 gens are done in the first minutes of the game, then it is almost over for the killer. unless you playing nurse or spirit. imo toolboxes should either go or gen time should be reworked asap.
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i try my best not to play nurse. i do. but almost all other killers do not have map pressure and i either get genrushed or taunted by toxic survivors who just enjoy me playing a "weak" killer. i do not want to play spirit. i have to if i want at least to enjoy this game a little. i usually play huntress/myers/trapper/some wraith but boy do i get angry almost every single time i play them. the majority of survivors has no respect, if they see you doing bad or playing any other killer than the top 3, they get cocky and try to make the match miserable for killer. i'm saying the majority, not all. and if you play one of top 3, then they either dc or complain.
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I rarely play in swf. As a survivor I don't see them (or those I suspect of being them) very often. I do agree killers need a bit of help though.
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Gen rushing maximizes my odds of escaping. Thus I ought do it.
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Totally agree that survivors need a second objective. I'm pretty sure the devs see totems and chests as second objectives, but in truth these can just be ignored completely. Granted, this could bite you with NOED, but at high ranks, you can mostly ignore totems. Survivors need an objective that is both engaging and fun for both sides. I've always been an advocate for something like finding a gas can to start a gen before it can be worked on, or retrieve an item from the basement.
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People don't really think " I have to do gens as fast as possible" unless its swf. I just do gens normally, if the killer doesn't find me during this period or doesn't hook anyone then they get done fast because I don't have anything else to do.
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There's a difference between genrushing and "genrushing". One is going all out with pimped out toolboxes and stuff, the other is simply following a simple rule anyone with room temperature IQ or higher will eventually discover: If I'm not doing something else, I should be on a generator.
Depending on how well the killer does the latter might sometimes feel almost as fast as the former, but there's a big difference in intent here.
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interesting idea, i like it. it would really add relatively more time to the match
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Apart from playing the game, i enjoy grinding and getting achievements, and since the game is focused on escaping i will do gens if the killers doesnt chase me, but i will regularly chase the killer for boldness points
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im not simply focusing on the doing gens thing. im focused on "how" the gens are done. as i already said, i am not telling anyone to not do gens. it's just the toolbox + add ons + perks for gen rushing is making difficult to enjoy the game from the killer side. and when killers try to slow gen rushing by playing top killers ( just top because of the map pressure, not because of any "special" thing ), survivors complain and want nerfs. like how do you want the only killers who can kinda back off the whole rush thing, nerfed ? what would be the point of playing killer then ?
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It’s the same exact mindset a killer who targets freshly unhooked survivors uses. It’s been said time and time again by many killer mains that this is perfectly fine, and that survivors should use their perks against this strategy if they don’t like it. Well....killers also have perks to combat generators...use them. If one is fine, so is the other. Address both, or address neither. Simple as that. If survivors need to collect gas cans or whatnot, give the killer another requirement as well to prevent “killrush”.
Like it or not, game balance will always be judged off kills/escapes. The addition of EGC imo has definitely balanced this out, if not pushed it in favor of killer. People need to stop making game suggestions that would just massively increase kill amounts. Add to one side, add to the other too...that’s called balance. Let’s not pretend that if survivors alone were given a second objective, that people who play killers like Spirit all day now would just stop and use weak killers. The strongest killers would continue getting played in high volume because people will want to steamroll survivors with them for easy 4Ks.
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I dont have any problems like that playing killer, i ve actually found it makes matches easier. The reason for that is to run gen perks they need to give up chase slots, and people like that are more likely to get caught on 3 gen situations.
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bringing a toolbox and bnp doesn't mean I wanna gen rush I just feel like using an item/add on
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I did not read any of the body of the original post, because it is pretty unreadable to me. So just going from the title - gen rush mindset.
This game promotes it. Killers want to kill fast, survivors need to do gens faster or they probably all die. It's always been a race and with each new gimmick (like mend or exposed perks/powers) and nerf (like to healing speed), the pressure increases every update to do it faster.
Gets even worse if playing solo. I don't often know who I'm playing with - are they good in a chase, will they let me die on first hook, can they even power through Ruin? I better do gens now, because it will be too late later.
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It's not always a mindset. It's just how the math works if a killer can't get a down quickly. A "gen rush" can always happen if the survivors want to spread out on gens and be conservative at safe pallets to start the game. Being able to apply pressure is 60% on the killer and 40% on the survivors
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I think these comments pretty much sums up where the current state of the game is.
Escaping is the ultimate goal as a survivor. The only way to directly achieve this is to complete the gens. Yes, doing bones and looping hard serve to aid escaping, because it allows you and/or team mates time to do gens then open a gate.
That being said, we all know the longer a match goes on, the more chances the killer has to make sacrifices. So inherently, the survivors are always in a rush to complete the gens, it's the design of the game. Only when peeps get bored of the game do they mess around in hopes to spice things up a bit.
We also all know that certian killers that don't get massive speed buffs from there ability or have access to teleports essentially have to let certian gens fall because it takes the same amount of time to complete gens as it does to make a full lap and partial them all once. Heaven forbid you get in a chase in that time as well.
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those people are the reason the game is imbalanced
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Using the term ‘gen rush’ as if it’s not the primary objective for survivors makes me think you’re not very experienced and/or don’t really understand the game.
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I am a gen rusher, but only do it so that the game can end. Heck, most of the time I do a gen to 99% and then leave for another one.
The exception is when I am facing a Spirit. If I am facing a Spirit I switch from, making sure that the game can end favorably for me to:
M A X I M U M O V E R D R I V E
Spirits sure as shoot never show any mercy so neither will I when facing them.
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False.
The game is imbalanced and those are the people that take advantage of it.
The imbalance itself exists with or without the people utilizing it.
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True True.
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Or you can be a better killer. They have perks like Franklin's Demise, Tinker, Discordance, Hex ruin (which 99% of them already use), Huntress Lullaby, Over Charge and Pop Goes the Weasel. Killers always crying thats why survivors perks and items always getting debuffed and changed. The point of the game is go in do the gens and escape. Not to play "Ring Around the Rosie" with the killer. Stop being a baby, "Friday 13th" may be a better fit for you. Btw The Nurse and Spirit are some of the easiest killers to play against. Unlike Hill Billy, Cannibal, Michael Myers, Ghost Face, The Wrath and The Clown also the new killer from "Stranger Things" you just sound trash.
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because tinkerer and overcharge are great perks
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Instead of blaming it on the gens. Blame it on the killers that lack pressure or possibly even player mistakes. Also maps play a part of this as well.
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Are you sure? Yesterday I played a game against a streamer. In the lobby he said "oh this is definitely a 4-man."
I was solo, and another guy was solo too (the other two were very unkind - not in a joking way - because he made a big mistake at the end). At most it was a 2-man group, yet the streamer was convinced it was a 4-man group. In my experience this false assumption is more common than 4-man groups (especially super sweaty ones) by far.
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This person gets it.
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Agree it is really annoying to see this as Killer main, when I do my dailys and dont play a op Killer, Trapper for an example, the second survivors see my trapps or me and know I am a trapper, they instalty start rushing even harder.
Yesterday I placed 3 traps in autohaven for like 1 and a half minute and 4 gens popped. In the endscreen (still killed 3 because they wasnt that good honestly) all 4 of them had atleast a yellow toolbox or higher.
Thats why I main spirit and mostly play her or nurse because I just want to play chilled and not sweat for my life in every game. And then after genrushing a low tier Killer the survivors write mostly ez or baby killer but if you play a op killer they just dc or killthemselves. I hate redranks.
And a even more sad part is, most of the survivors that does that cant even mindgame properly. If you come to a balanced loop with midgames they mostly die instantly by just running towards you when you simply fake your redlight. This happens ALOT by these "rushers". It is fine if you want to make pressure by pulling out some gens but not focusing EVERYTHING into it, ppl dont heal anymore just to keep doing gens, if you find them on the gen they mostly die really fast and after the save they keep doing those gens, because even if they die, atleast they did the max amount of time the gens and not trying to stay alive, yeah weird right? Staying ALIVE as survivor, I wonder which weird madman came on the idea to make a game where survivors should try to stay alive!
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Trump is so proud.
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The one and only game mechanic that is reversed for some reason is the time management within the game.
For some strange reason the survivors are the once dictating the progress of the game and the killer has to disturb and slow them.
In theory the survivors could spend ages on gens, if they want to, there is no overarching threat that forces them to do gens.
That's why killers that are able to quickly end chases and put pressure on the survivors, force them to use up their resources or entirely denying them, the best killers in the game and often unfun to vs them.
So the survivors don't have any other option then to rush gens themselves. That's their weapon to pressure the killer and force the killer into mistakes to be exploited.
So why do we blame the survivors? They just play optimally and react to the pressure of the killer with their own.
If we want a paced game, we need a clock/timer, if the survivors survive for X min they win, if they all get killed/sacrificed/died before, the killer wins.
Is that the alternative we really want?
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I generally don't genrush.
In fact you'll often see me bringing saboteur and Alex's. I like to screw around and have fun in the game.
Every now and then you'll see me bring BNPs. You know why? Because I am likely just using up the gear on the survivor before I prestige.
I still complain about Spirit. Sorry, I just don't like Spirit.
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Idk I try to do gens when people are still alive as fast as I can Bc the more the teammates get killed off the less likely the gens are to get done. I’ll take a break around 2-1 gens left to do bones for obvious reasons. If other players are as optimal as I am, I can’t help that. It’s not in my best interest as a survivor to piss time away. If 3 gens pop quickly and everyone is still up the killer usually camps or tunnels after that so I mean. You don’t have a lot of options other than offering yourself up for the killers sake with them being extra close to the hook at that point. I’m going to a gen, if you don’t come looking for me that’s your fault. The best killers are the ones that apply gen pressure , and even if they haven’t killed everyone they dragged the out long enough to get plenty of points, and/ or have people killed off. Just Bc you didn’t get a 4K doesn’t mean you didn’t do well as killer.
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I love how killer mains always complain about gen rushing, but at the same time they will try and down the survivors as fast as possible. So wouldn't that be survivor rushing? Why do you have to kill every so fast? How can it be fun when you 4k games all the time. Why do you need to kill everyone so fast and then move on your next game to kill them all again. Get over it, that is the point of the game, finish the gens and get out.
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Whenever I play survivor, I personally DO find enjoyment in being the Gen Jockey... However my perks do not reflect that because chases, mainly winning them, is more important than gens.
Problem is maps can be so big at times that I can do several gens before even coming in contact with the killer. Map design in this game can really hurt the supposed power role.
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Oh hey, thanks. These look interesting! Gave me some reading for a bit.
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I hardly ever presume full 4 man groups, usually 2-3, but I still find it a little odd they havent balanced around communication yet.
Look BHVR, your "It sets a tone for the game" argument is absolutely invalid now. Let's be honest here, who really thinks this is a horror game and not a competative 4v1 team game?
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