Punish survivors for "tunneling"
Now, I see so many threads about how tunneling and camping are just the worst, and that the devs need to do something, as if they haven't already.
Every time the killer is portrayed as the bad guy, like all they had to do was choose to go after person 2 and life would be fair and balanced. If they choose not to they should be met with the wrath of the entity or some mega perk.
What if, we punished the survivors who created these situations? Most of the time someone gets intentionally "tunneled" it's because of careless and blatantly dangerous rescues. If the killer is really under pressure at this point, chances are they are going for the injured and at least hooked once player VS a full health 0 hook survivor.
Kill tunneling at the source. Poor rescues.
Comments
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I define "Tunneling" as "Intentionally going after the same survivor over and over, despite the other circumstances."
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Thing is it's impossible to punish because there are a ton of scenarios :/
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It's not survivors fault at all if the killer pretends that they are going away and then instantly comes back to down the survivor on the hook again.
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punish survivors for tunnelling gens.
they wont though too terrified of survivor mains to actually balance this game.
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What
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As long as you don't tunnel gens by kicking them!
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Most unsafe rescues are an attempt to keep that person from being one hooked. If the killer refuses to leave the hook or soft camps the area you're left with two choices. Let them get one hooked. Or try to get them out as best you can. Sorry skippy, but the killer created that situation. Not the survivors.
Dude what? It's literally the only thing you should be doing when not in chase.
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1) Killer IS the bad guy -- they are out to murder people.
2) There is a difference between intentional hard tunneling and soft tunneling you described. Hard tunnelers mean all unhooks are unsafe.
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Punish killers for being jerks.
Don't play survivor.
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If there are better plays to be made, and they choose to throw the match to kill someone in particular, I can agree that would be annoying for the one being attacked. Although this gives the others ample time to complete objectives.
Good point, as it can go both ways. Only thing is currently only one side gets punished.
It is 100% the survivors fault if the rescue is preformed with the killer still near-by. If I only get 3 seconds away with intent on checking a gen in the back 40, and a rescue happens, why should I keep trucking to away from the area where half of the survivors are, not to mention if there was a gen near that hook, I know they'll heal and start repairing with no pressure.
On the other hand, if you waited until the killer was a decent distance away, you'd have more then enough time to make a break for it and continue on tunnel free.
Do you know what, that plays into exactly what they want you to do. It's been said time and time again. If the hook is being camped, then leave them be. You may want to help the one guy cause you're nice like that, but you sewer the whole team when you let camping work. Most folk won't leave a hook if they know someone is in the area. You do no one any favors by saving that person.
I know they are the bad guy, that was an attempt at some humor. You make "hard tunneling" sound like camping.
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Maybe one day they will, camping will always be a thing, but tunneling can be avoided with smart plays.
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Yeah but a lot of the time people use the word of tunneling it's because they got downed after recently being unhooked.
The amount of times I've had a survivor just been unhooked run into me, get down and then disconnect calling me a tunneler.
Well I won't exclusively waste my time to go look for one specific survivor who got off the hook if there are other survivors around if you happen to be the only person I see see I'm not going to give you a freebie because you've recently been unhooked
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They just need further penalties to both emblem points and bloodpoints for really bad gameplay. Killers would stop tunneling and camping if they got virtually no BP for it and if it rarely resulted in them getting a pip. A big issue with this is awful survivors who go near the hook when the killer is camping. I think the survivor should lose a significant amount of points for time spent near a camping killer. While they are there, they are effectively useless to everyone on their team. They enable the killer to camp and hurts the entire team. There just needs to be more clear and significant punishments for obviously terrible gameplay
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This is it exactly. Too many people mistake tunneling for "I keep making myself the obvious target".
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I don't think anyone needs to be punished. If anything, better educated.
Teach people. Learn. Grow. win/win.
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In that situation you have the smart option and the idiot option. If you notice the killer is camping the smart option is to go and work on a gen alone. Every single time a killer is camping the other 3 survivors should be doing a separate gen so that 3 gens get finished by the time the person on the hook dies. The killer either has to sacrifice 3 gens for one kill and virtually no points because they camped, or they have to leave and try to stop one of the people doing gens. If you notice the killer left to go stop a gen, then go for the save. The dumbass option is when you notice that the killer is camping and you stay around the area and keep attempting to rescue the person on the hook. You are useless to your team while attempting this rescue. The killer has no incentive to leave because he isn't losing points and at least two people aren't going gens (counting the hooked person) So, at worst they will lose two gens. If you manage to get downed while attempting the hook rescue and don't succeed, you effectively lose the game for your entire lobby because you almost force the remaining two survivors to go for saves. So that leaves at least 3 people not doing gens.
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Killers lose bloodpoints already for camping. And if survivors play smart, killer ends up losing the game for camping. Yet despite that, it still happens.
Survivors on the other hand lose the game when swarming a hook against a camping killer most of the time. Then when killer gets a 4k, blame camping.
Everything being talked about is easilt punished harshly by people playing the game properly. Killers camp because a) they are new and don't know better, or b) they camp knowing survivors are going to throw themselves at them thus negating the need to patrol and search out other victims, or c) the survivor did something to intentionally piss off the killer. (In that situation, maybe look at your playstyle and change something?)
As far as tunneling, that's harder to breakdown. Sometimes, that's just the play that has to happen, other times, it's not intentional, sometimes the survivors purposely run at the killer knowing they have 2nd chance perks.
Tunneling isnt fun for survivor, but on the other hand having 3 generators on opposite sides of the map pop while chasing someone isnt fun for killer.
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It's also not the killers fault that the survivors instantly go for the rescue when killers do that.
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I didn't say instantly :)
Many killers go away from the hook and wait for them to unhook to instantly down the unhooked survivor again. It is quite easy to do this with spirit or billy and survivors can't do much in that situation.
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That survivors are idiots then.
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Interupting a heal is a smart move, whether you choose to go after the unhooked or the rescuer. Why should someone actively look around the map for a survivor when they already know where at least 2 survivors are? Point being...returning to the hook after an unhook isnt a bad idea at all.
As far as what can the survivor do? Get to a safer location before attempting a heal if the killer isnt far away or busy. Too many times, the reason someone goes down again is because they spend too much time in a dead zone. The rescuer can also choose to body block for their teammate if the killer IS targeting the unhooked survivor. It might suck to take a hit, but it is still an option for you.
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I think we can all agree
The killer A.I. program can't come soon™ enough.
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I didn't say anything about healing in the spot you got unhooked. That's survivors' fault if they do that. Spirit or billy can pretend like they are leaving the hook, go away a little, and come back immediately when survivor gets unhooked to hit them again.
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If that happens, like I said...body blocking is an option. This will often times buy enough time to allow a survivor to reach a safer location.
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I know I know. I actually loathe hard tunneling more than camping. The hard tunneler is basically camping, they are just taking on some risk in order to speed up the sacrifice time.
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I have issues with tunneling on Xbox constantly. A lot of it can be blamed on other survivors immediately farming me off a hook as soon as I get hooked. I can't blame the killer for that. Other times I'm saved and the killer goes out of their way to ignore anyone else in the area and the person who unhooks me just to make sure I die. I don't know how to fix such a problem. People bought the game and can choose to play it however they want I guess. I don't know if punishing anyone for this stuff is the right thing to do. I've gotten to the point when I play killer that I actively avoid people that get saved from the hook. It kills the fun for me as a survivor so I don't want to kill other people's fun. That's just me.
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Often when I come back to the hook when someone has been saved is because the survivors don't give me enough time to find someone else so if I don't see anyone else why would I not go back to the hook? I know at least 2 survivors are there so I have a good chance to start a chase right away.
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Wish more people had your view point.
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Killers don't lose points if survivors are near the hook they are camping. The issue is that too many survivors are too stupid to not go for the hook vs a camping killer.
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Camping isn't what loses survivors the game. It's just incredibly unfun and should be heavily discouraged in most situations. I mostly encounter it when playing with my friends who are newer. In virtually every game we play a killer is hard camping every single person they hook. This ends up leading to most of them not wanting to play anymore because every other game they get hard/face camped and can't even play. Since they are new, they haven't learned enough mechanics to escape from chases for longer periods of time. So they will end up going down, which almost always leads to a hard/face camp.
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I much prefer to spread out the hooking's but sometimes you just really need to get rid of 1 person to take the pressure off.
Also you have people who go for a seni unsafe unhook and then use UE knowing that the killer will only be able to find/chase that one person.
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This is my biggest thing. Finding people one of the most important aspects. Very rarely will I hang around a hook, as kicking gens needs to be done. If I only get a few seconds away and they get rescued,I'm pulling a U-turn and looking for survivors
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This is 100% true and usually leads to incidental tunneling. I'll head towards the hook but in a direction I think they may go to head then off. Sometimes it works great some times not so much. The first/closest/easiest to catch is the one getting chased
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You are pretending we don't live in a era when most Spirits that are even in a new chase go phase running back to to the unhook as soon as they see it happens...
Or the good old "I'm gonna go walk away now."
-Killers walks out of Terror Range-
-Heartbeat comes back-
"I forgot to ask if you needed anything while I'm away. No? Okay. Bye."
-Heartbeat lessens then picks back up-
"I forgot I left the stove on."
But yes, the Survivors who run straight over and unhook you as they hook you are very obnoxious as well.
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Tunneling, to me, is when a killer intentionally goes after a survivor regardless of the situation. (Which is why DS is so strong. Simply an obsession in the game can make everyone a DS suspect)
However, downing them and then going off to do something else, is NOT tunneling in my book. A lot of killers intentionally down a DS suspect to waste the survivors time and get rid of DS for the next time they are downed.
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Survivors performing an unsafe unhook isn’t the only reason some people tunnel though.
There are also killers who tunnel simply for bringing a specific item, for example.
Sometimes a farm off the hook is also necessary if the killer is proxy/face camping. So that player has somewhat of a chance.
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Survivors get punished for unsafe rescues with the emblem system
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Poor rescues do, actually, get punished. If someone is farming the team, they'll likely get hit and downed immediately or they'll have the recently hooked getting the aggro. Even if they have Borrowed, that means someone is closer to death and that person is closer to be out of the game (one less hand on gens/saves). Also if the person goes down, their emblems get hurt and they don't get the points for the safe saves.
I think the issue a lot of people have is (I would guess) that they're newer and don't know how to combat it or how to get out of the ranks to find a place that has more skilled killers.
You can't realistically punish either, really. Killers should be allowed the possibility. Survivors may have made an honest mistake.
They aren't going to punish farming, though, since sometimes it's needed. If the person is close to second stage and I farm them, it's needed. If the person goes down immediately, they technically did a "good" save. It could end up making honest plays/mistakes a troublesome thing due to the rules.
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as if unsave rescues are the no 1 tunnel reason. imo killer tunnel to secure a fast first kill or if they chased one survivor for too long and they get the feeling the game is already over for them. idc if mates farm me and the killer downs me again. they already get pretty heavy penalty in the emblem for that and thats also not tunneling. if i get chased for 5 gens, thats tunnel.
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Played Abit of Bubba this weekend and had quite afew games with ppl following me to the hook, just so they could unhook as soon as the animation was done. Got to the point, I'd just start charging the chainsaw as soon as I hooked someone if I thought I heard footsteps behind me.
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There shouldn't be a punishment on either side, just ways to counter and let the chips fall where they may
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Everyone look at tunnel like the killer is bad, when survivors are doing generators because they have DS that should be fixed. As long as you are touching a gen the DS shouldn't be active.
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Absolutely. That is if we acknowledge that tunneling is a thing and DS is an anti tunnel. I'd be alright if no one complained about tunneling and DS was just a minute of "immunity" after being unhooked. Maybe a couple tweaks.
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Tunnelling and Camping is the killer being on the map to some Survivors. Acting like a basic killer mechanic is troublesome and unfair is just an empty argument. Same can be said for gen rush arguments.
If killers couldn't tunnel (down after injuring) you would end up being bored to death healing over and over again. Making that harder doesn't suddenly make it more fun of a game.
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A few things.
First, survivors have already been punished for unsafe rescues. And not just once or twice.
WGLF was nerfed so you don't get stacks for unsafe unhook.
The emblem system also heavily docks you for unsafe unhook, so you can actually receive zero points for altruism if your team as a whole (and not even you singly) has more unsafe unhooks than you have unhooks. You will even lose points even if you played perfectly, if there's some potato on your team who's trigger happy.
Not punishing enough? To rub salt In the wound you get less blood points in the scoring system as well for unsafe unhooks.
So let's not pretend that survivors aren't being punished for unsafe unhooks. Survivors have been nerfed quite a few times for it.
Second, if yiu really want to get to the root of tunneling, you know what causes tunneling in unsafe unhook? Yes that's right. It's the other part of dynamic duo: Killer Camping.
Killers make the choice to camp hooks, that's why tunneling happens.
So if you want to get to the source, survivors aren't exactly the only ones to blame. Maybe if the devs punished killers harder for camping something might happen.
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You could have 0% proximity to hook point deduction in post game and still be branded as a camper. I think first of all Survivors need to acknowledge whether a killer factually is or is not camping before anything. A lot of times Camping and Tunneling is the excuse people use to reflect the blame somewhere else.
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You do realize that survivors have already been punished for tunneling gens. Multiple times.
- nerfed BNP
- Leader nerf and resulting gentime nerf
- Killers given the super perk Discordance
- Thanatophobia, PGTW and Dying Light buffs
- Freddy chains and jump rope
That's just off the top of my head. So spare me the ridiculous killer melodrama rhetoric.
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Because BNP was completely balanced. You talk about leader nerf but conveniently leave out Prove thyself.
Freddy add ons are avoided if you wake up, not hard.
Thanatophobia doesn't work if you are all healthy and it's a tiny debuff.
Spare us the 'ridiculous Survivor melodrama rhetoric'. Quality of life and balance have gone a long way and made the game a lot more fair.
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I only go after the killer with my pallet and decisive strike. Nobody told me it was tunneling though?
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Well maybe they aren't being punished enough, because unsafe hooks still happen across the board in all situations.
You must be a fairly good player, so you would have to know that not only have the devs said that camping is a legit strategy, they claim it should be counter productive to the killers game. So if camping works, who's really to blame?
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