Nerf the doctor
I have played against and as the doctor a decent amount and honestly he needs to be fixed
at high levels hes great cause everyone knows what theyre doing, but honestly for average players and below hes so broken.
First of all, once he gets you into Tier 3, it seems like his little hollogram illusion doctors will pop up around you for the rest of the game no matter if you snap out of it or what. I just played against him and was specifically looking for a way to make them stop showing up and I couldnt find one. Which would normally be fine if it didnt literally show him exactly where you are at all times. Like seriously how am I supposed to play against a killer whos ability requires me to stay in one place for a period of time to snap out of it, just so that i can heal, which is essentially addint like 10-20 whatever seconds to the healing time if youre injured, BUT while youre sat there snapping out of it and healing hes getting notified exactly where you are, and if you stop the action to run away and actually manage to escape, you have to start all over because even if you did finish it, odds are he put you back into crazy mode.
*EDIT * I know this isnt like part of his skill explicitly but it happens every single game i play against the doctor so can we please fix it: I will be getting chased and make my way to a pallet and i scream and i cant throw the pallet down because im in the scream animation. like pallets are already broken enouugh as it is (unless you get to the pallet a solid 2 seconds before the killer and time it perfectly you either miss the stun or you get hit through the pallet when you throw it anyways) so can we please like make the scream animation caused by the doctors madness interruptable by pallets because seriously. When I play doctor (usually for a daily or something but sometimes i just want guaranteed kills and i always get them on doctor cause hes seriously busted) I get players that DC as soon as they see its a doctor, and i have teammates do it when i survive against doctor too. like I know im not the only one who thinks hes busted, i might not be in the majority but i know its not just me, a lot of us have no idea how to play against him
also when he shocks you and you scream you stop cleansing so if hes running ruin or noed or devour youre ######### cause he can literally just walk over and shock you and reset the cleansing timer/kill you
My first thoughts, let surivors madness regress all the way back down to Tier 0
also, if youre crouching, shared hallucinations get disabled. They will still be shown while snapping out of it but at the very least that gives survivors a chance to hide from the doctor like around a loop and if he cant find them, and leaves, then they can crouch walk farther away or snap themselves out of it or do whatever, but its so maddeningly unfair (and unfun) to be in a chase as a survivor, make a good play and shake the killer off your trail, and then when hes looking around trying to find you a frikn hallucination pops up and tells him exactly where you are.
Keep in mind this is just for the sake of players who arent great at the game. basically the entire game is balanced at high levels but there are so many things that are just objectively unfair to people like average skill and below.
Ive made a couple of posts calling out things that are unfair for new/average players or just in general and have gotten called out for the things not being unfair or for wanting them fixed because "fixing" them would make them broken so I just tried to give an idea that makes a minimal change because I figure theres a better chance of something getting done about it if people arent preaching about how they like how it is or how my ideas are unfair or whatever
Comments
-
I am a main doc and freddy, and yes for low lvl players he's very annoying, but I do not see the need to nerf him. At high rank he's not good at all, once you know the mechanics he s basically a m1 killer that can prolong the game a fair bit... That's all!
As far as low rank is concerned, is normal that such a wierd killer is consider strong and annoying, you need to snap out and be careful of clones... For new player look like complicated and to much stuff to instead of doing gens, a bit of knowledge for survivors and our main doc will be much more less powerful.
I'd you hear laughing in the fog... Run!
1 -
I seriously don't see how Tier 3 to Tier 0 would fix anything related for low ranks.
When you're back to tier 0 you would give Doctor a free location reveal. Which is something i think you don't want to happen?
Also i think Doctor is strong at low ranks because of his random skillchecks at tier 2 and 3.
0 -
well the location reveal happens at tier 3
so if we can get survivors down to tier 0 again he would have to at least spend time finding and shocking them a bunch if he wants to get the reveals again
0 -
thats the thing, its so hard to pin down how he works, I never know if he can see my clones or not, I wont be able to snap out of it and Ill panic cause I think im in tier 3 but im in tier 2
He'll find me becasue I randomly scream or have clones pop up when I barely just got away from him and theres literally nothing I can do about it because I havent even had time to snap out of it
I will be in a chase and get to a pallet and hell make me scream and I wont be able to throw it down because Im stuck in the scream animation, theres a lot wrong with him
But honestly, if hes unfair at low ranks and not good at high ranks, wouldnt it be better to rework him so hes better across the board? like why not make him viable for high players but balanced for new players? you think thats a better idea than a nerf?
0 -
Why would we want to balance around rank 20 play though? When he's not that strong once people learn how to play.
3 -
nono i dont mean rank 20
lets be real rank 20 is a lost cause
but im saying like anywhere from rank 20 to like rank 13ish hes broken
I will never think you should design characters around new players, but if someone gets the game and doesnt have fun because killers are too strong and new players die before they even get a chance to learn what they need to do or how to do it or basically just get a chance to play, theyll feel super excluded by the game and we wont get new players and the community will plateau
i dont think they should balance it around new players, but make it balanced for them ya know? just like give new players a chance. to play the game a little bit before inevitably dying. (maybe saying balance it for them is a bad way to word it. Balance him across the board but make it fair for low ranks)
Ive played dbd for a while and even I get genuinely confused by ######### that happens when I vs a doctor cause the ######### that happens with him seems almost random, i know it isnt random but if I have trouble understanding whats happening then what chance does little franky have when he decides to try this new game with his friend cause they always talk about how fun it is?
0 -
Nope. He would just have to be in Treatment Mode.
Reminder - Whenever you go to a diffrent Madness Tier you scream.
2 -
Here, OP, this video should help you:
0 -
like i know im not crazy for thinking hes broken cause almost every game i play as or against him, someone DC's when they see its a doctor. He has so many abilities and whatnot in his basic kit that should be addons but they arent.
-like static field is always on in treatment mode and is basically a passive version of his active ability
-he makes survivors scream often before he even finds them. like when i play doctor I have literally walked past hiding survivors but I found them because they screamed as I was leaving because of my static field
-he has a thing that can locate survivors automatically after shocking them once or twice and to my knowledge you cant really get rid of that cause I dont know how to get back to tier 1 sometimes. I just get down to tier 2 and im stuck there until i die or escape. that might just be me not knowing how he works but like ive tried so many times to figure it out so at the very least make it easier to figure out how to regress to tier 1 if its possible
-he stops survivors from vaulting or using pallets by shocking them
-he stops survivors from being able to heal, repair, cleans, etc until they snap out of it, but while snapping out of it their position is being revealed to him. and if they leave the area before fully snapping out of it then the progress resets and they have to start all over while still revealing their area to the doctor
-he makes survivor skill checks appear randomly around the screen and shakey, which is extra af because skill checks are laggy enough as is in this game
like some of this could absolutely be addons or removed entirely and hed still be fine. yall said he wasnt good at high ranks but hes too good at low ranks so keeping him like this is just punishing new players but doesnt affect the people who can actually play around difficulties.
idk man I just think all that stuff PLUS being able to have additional perks and addons is a little busted when literally none of those things i listed are hard to pull off consistently and most of them just happen passively
0 -
People DC against the Doctor because he's annoying to them, or because they don't know how to beat him. I've played the Doctor extensively; he's far from broken.
Yes, he can find survivors by making them scream, but finding a survivor is only the first step; you have to down them if you want to win, and the Doctor really isn't that good at it.
You can't regress to tier 1 once you've reached tier 2, but most of the effects from tier 2 can be safely ignored by experienced survivors.
Shock Therapy slows the Doctor when he uses it (Meaning he often won't be able to close the distance in time to land a hit), and there are a number of ways to avoid the shock entirely in a chase.
Skill checks are easily nullified if you're an experienced survivor, regardless of where they appear on the screen. If you really hate skill checks that much, just play Killer.
If you really want to beat the Doctor, don't bother trying to hide against him. Just pressure the generators, waste his time with long chases, and don't panic when you hit Madness 2 or 3.
1 -
okay but what killer rank are you
PLEASE tell me how i can avoid the hallucinations revealing my location every 4 seconds
also ya but weve already established the doctor is fine against experienced survivors, im talking for the average/less experienced players who get buttfukd by this dude every single time they play against him and dont learn from it cause they dont know what even happened or how to fix it
his movement speed barely changed between modes
ya I dont have a problem hitting the skill checks but again, not talking about people who are good, im talking about people who might still be learning or have gaps in their skillset or are just not good yet
and im sorry but "if you cant deal with this killer because you arent at that level yet but hes very confusing to play against so you dont learn when you lose to him so just play killer even though you cant play with friends as killer" is not what id call a valid solution
and what if he has ruin which they usually do? the people im talking about here prooobably cant hit ruin checks and if they find the totem and try to cleanse it and the doctor finds them because why wouldnt he protect the totem, he can force them to stop cleansing and scream which freezes their actions for a couple seconds so no pallets or vaulting
0 -
I'm rank 10, currently. And there's a reason you almost never see Doctor at the higher ranks.
If the hallucinations reveal your location, then move to a different location. Like I said, hiding against the Doctor is usually a waste of time. Just pressure the map, force him into long chases, and win.
Balancing the game for the lowest common denominator would only serve to break the game for the experienced players. If you're having trouble against the Doctor, then learn the game to understand how his power works. Game knowledge is a player skill, like any other. Develop it.
If you can't hit ruin skillchecks, then just tap the generator so you don't trigger any skill checks. If the Doctor is patrolling his Ruin totem, then he's not patrolling the generators. Punish him for it.
And again, Shock Therapy really isn't that good. Its duration is often too short for the Doctor to properly take advantage of it, and it slows the Doctor a lot when he starts charging it.
So I'll say it again: Learn the game instead of just complaining about every minor inconvenience you face as a Survivor. Or just play Killer if you don't want to deal with the Doctor. I even posted a video guide on how to counter the Doctor, just for you. But it seems like you'd rather just whine.
1 -
okay so my location gets revealed, i stop snapping out of it and move to a new location. What do i do when my location gets revealed there? do i keep moving every few seconds my location is revealed or do i stop and snap out of it long enough for him to find me?
again, ive literally tried to figure out how his power works but every time i think i understand it, i get into a game and it turns out i was wrong. Im fine with ruin skillchecks (at least like, 75% of the time i get them) and he doesnt have to patrol his totem. if he goes and patrols generators and im at his totem, he sees the hallucinations and comes to stop me, if hes patrolling his totem and im on a gen, he sees the hallucinations and stops me.
recall I changed my wording above from balancing it for lower rank players to making it fair for them.
If hes already not good at high ranks then who exactly is it hurting if we make it fair for newer players?
or at the VERY least, in his power description put more detail about how it works because these players dont last long enough in games against him to figure it out themselves.
0 -
and im currently rank 10 survivor also and half my games today have been against doctors
okay well rank 11 with 4 pips because i cant figure out how to not die against doctors
like, in all honesty, ive found it more effective when theres a doctor to run up to him and crouch and hope hell be nice than actually play seriiously.(like lowkey when i do that at least half the time theyll shock me a bunch, hit me once, and leave. idk why they do it so much but tbh its boring)
0 -
If you're struggling against Doctor that much at Rank 10, then you need to take the time to learn how to counter him. As I said, don't try to hide against the Doctor. Just focus on doing the objectives, and run away if he comes for you.
Again, here's a video explaining in detail how the Doctor's power works, and how to counter it:
0 -
i appreciate it but im almost immediately put off by it because this dudes advice is "if youre snapping out of it and you have a hallucination pop up, stop snapping out of it and leave because now he knows where you are even though youre going to keep having hallucinations pop up and reveal your location regardless of where you go until you snap out of it."
0 -
It depends on the situation. If the Doctor is coming and a hallucination has spawned for you, then you should stop snapping out of it because he knows where you are. If the Doctor is busy chasing someone else or isn't anywhere near you, then keep snapping out of it.
0 -
Anyway the doctor will be the next to be reworked so, wait and see how they change him. You are lucky that is a killer barely used imo, very small chase potential being a slightly more complicated M1 killer.
0 -
As a Doctor main for a good amount of time, I can tell you that he is NOT in need of a nerf. You can ignore a lot of his Madness effects and his shock therapy is harder to use on longer loops. The hallucinations will only reveal your location to him if he has the Restraint add-on (this includes the Iridescent King version) or you're in tier 3. They will still appear if you're in tier 2 and he doesn't have Restraint, but he will not see their auras. If you're still having trouble, then just keep practicing until you've got it. We can't just nerf everything for low ranks.
There is a super secret alternate method to taking him down though. It makes this entire thread seem like a complete waste of time. It's called eating an apple. If the first apple doesn't work, then keep eating them until you find one that does.
1 -
okay tell me how i can ignore having my location revealed and being in a chase and unable to use pallets or vault because he shocked me into tier 3
and ya dude everyone knows about the apple but theyre so damn hard to find in chests and the bloodweb its really not a reliable counter
but actually i dont know how to practice because every game I get into vs doctor i get killed before I have a chance to actually practice or learn from my mistakes, or i manage to hide from him the entire game and dont practice because i literally just do gens and leave before he finds me
like if he gets me into tier 2 its basically a guaranteed death for me
0 -
IS HE REALLY?????? OHMAGOD THANK JEBUS
and no i see doctors all the damn time and he is an m1 killer but he can stop you from doing the necessary things you need to do to get away from m1 killers so
0 -
Calm Spirit prevents your location from being revealed from Madness tier ups. As for the illusions, you can just hide when you hear the terror radius. I think running through one is supposed to destroy it, but it doesn't always work. There is no way to know for sure if he's running Restraint though. You can only guess.
You're supposed to be able to use pallets and vault locations while in tier 3. The shock stun is only supposed to last 2.5 seconds. It sounds like you're dealing with a bug.
0 -
just dont heal lol
0 -
After Carefully analyzing the Gameplay Dynamic of Doctor and Survivor
I think just altering 2 things with the Doctor would balance things out.
1) Hard Cap "Shock Blast" to be smaller than the Terror Radius and also unattached to terror radius size.. make its size unaffected by addons
2) Allow survivor's Madness Tier to decrease back to tier 1 while in Tier 2.
This would greatly balance the game
0 -
Well, you're sacrificing stealth, perk and add on slots to get a larger terror radius.
And you go from 3-1. Lately 3 is not THAT hard to reach.
0 -
my guy that is a terrible strategy when the whole issue with the doctor is he finds you too easily and can stop you from using pallets and ######### lol
0 -
you go from 3-1 now, but i wrote this post before the rework. Now with the rework theres a whole load of new problems that make the doctor even more unfair than he was before lol
0 -
Funny. I actually prefer this newer Doctor for BOTH sides.
Old Doc was only good in lower ranks who didn't know how to work around him. Now he's actually viable at all levels.
0 -
hes super viable as a killer but hes almost impossible to do badly with, you have to be SO bad at the game to lose people with his new shock ability, he doesnt have to take time to switch between treatment and punishment, and ya now you can revert back to tier 1 but it takes like 3 seconds to get someone to tier three so whats the point.
i didnt even know the rework went live cause i hadnt played since december and I rarely played doctor before the rework (mostly for like dailies and stuff) and my first 3 games with him i got 4ks without knowing anything about the rework ahead of time
0 -
You can literally do a similar thing with Hillbilly and people say that he's fine. In fact, you say anything bad about Hillbilly and you get attacked by every killer on the forums.
0 -
"I got 4ks" really does that tell us anything given this game's matchmaking?
0
