“Garbage” Killers getting “carried” by Spirit
Am I missing something here? As Killer and Survivor, whenever the match is over, at least one person says that the Killer got “carried” by playing as Spirit. Is Spirit not one of the more challenging Killers to master? I’d much rather play as Legion than as Spirit, and I’ve never heard anyone say I got “carried” by Legion.
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I'd rather go against a Spirit for the challenge of her mindgames. Legion just... Hits you? Sorry Legion Mains! I still love you all when I see you!
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No, op.
Spirit is not one of the most challenging killers to master.
Her power is braindead easy to use and the only technique you're required to master in order to become a good spirit is awareness of your surroundings, which is something you learn by playing as any killer.
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Spirit is a Low Risk; High Reward Killer. While she initially can be used with just the headphones to "carry people" she does have additional skills. What she does teach you is godlike tracking since you learn to observe the environment and sounds far more then any other killer.
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Which sounds? They are bugged
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The other day I played Spirit with Stridor
apparently Iron Will just completely negates Stridor these days.. it was so stupid to hear nothing when phasing around someone injured, with a perk that boosts injured survivor noises..
yeah real OP killer
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They say that because she's a pretty easy killer to play and "master", not really requiring much from the player. People say the same about Freddy too because it's true. They're easy killers with not much of a skill ceiling but is it really a bad thing to have killers that are good but also easy to play as long as they aren't unfair? (Well... spirit kind of bends that second point a bit because her power literally offers no counterplay if the spirit has a pair of eyes and ears but she will still lose the match if the other 3 survivors are doing gens.)
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I started DBD as a Spirit main and playing her has really helped my listening skills on any killer, as well as my tracking and the art of guessing where the survivors will be. She's not easy but she does intimidate survivors and that makes them verbally abuse her.
I've seen way more insults and abuse come from survivors when playing her than with any other killer. "f u spirit" "ur gay for using spirit" "why would u use her" "gay spirit main" "racial slur"
She is hard to master but not too hard to get kills with if you're cocky or just a straight up jerk to the survivors.
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Sounds are bugged even with stridor on, so good on you for getting the wins as spirit because im annoyed playing as her
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Sounds are generally bugged anyways with rare instances when they are not for awhile. Spirit can still do well without sounds and headphones. I know a lot of people who play her while listening to music and they just throw whispers on and get 4k's almost every game.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I would laugh at those survivor's and just say "like you got carried by second changes perks, dude".
Why the hassle? The surv. of today can't bind their shoes without a perk that helps them out with it.
Those survs were just salty.
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Survivors cant handle true invisibility. Even with all those restrictions placed on her they simply dont want to accept theyve been outplayed by someone who cant see them either.
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Yeah she is a little difficult to master when dealing with good survivors because they know how to counter her pretty well. Play who you like, they are probably just salty since they cant quite bully Spirit like other killer since she has no tell when phasing. People will complain about no counter play but her power is made to be inherently vague and hard for survivors to guess. People will say she is easy due to her power but tracking with broken sounds and working around perks that silence survivors or get rid of scratch marks can be detrimental to her.
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Spirit is pretty much "Press m2 to MInDgaME" and hopefully get a hit. It's low risk high reward.
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I know a lot of ppl who can play without their eyes, their hands, their brain, and still 4k as well
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Spirit... hard to master?
Spirit is ######### easy and boring to play. I don't even play Spirit and can easily win with her.
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There are definitely easier killers that would “carry” someone more than Spirit. Freddy or Billy for example. I’ve seen many people struggle with Spirit.
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Spirit is difficult to learn... not that much but more than any other Killer exept nurse. Ppl just say that because they are upsad but me as a Spirit main NEVER ever saw a good spirit personally. Idk if I am just unlucky.
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I mean when she still had collision she was easy but she doesnt now, has the notoruis sound bugs and is somehow still easy?
Ok.
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4 good survivors will always beat a good spirit
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Lmao. Who wants to bet op is a survivor main who plays with a swf. 😂
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Did you have a bad day today? Maybe it’s time for a break. Yes, I am a Survivor main, but no, I’ve never played with a SWF. I got to red ranks on my own. Also, what about my post hinted at me being a “survivor main who plays with a SWF?” I said that I DON’T believe that “garbage” Killers get “carried” by Spirit (pay attention to the quotation marks). Do you just copy and paste this message on any discussion where you don’t agree with the OP?
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I used to be a very good Spirit main, then Plague released and I stopped playing Spirit as much. Then sounds got bugged :/
Spirit isn’t braindead like players claim. She requires map awareness, tracking, and opening your ears and listening which some people are not good at doing. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve lost a Spirit in a chase because she made a wrong prediction. I’ve seen more bad Spirits than good ones. She’s still low risk high reward though.
In an individual chase you’re gonna lose quickly, you still win by pumping out gens but you’ll typically lose a chase quickly with little counterplay which is why survivors tend to hate Spirit. Nothing you can do except cross your fingers she’s bad or can’t hear you due to buggy sounds. She’s just boring to face when all the chases are predictable.
You are at the mercy of the Spirit. Most other killers rely on survivor’s mistakes. Spirit relies on her own ability to track.
If they’re mad then let them be mad. Let the salt flow.
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Before her changes I got multiple gen grabs with her when I first got her without even using prayer beads. I still get grabs from time to time with her changes. Not saying a potato could learn her, but she's not THAT difficult, you just have to use your ears and that's really it.
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Well tbh sound in general is borked, sometimes survivors will make no sounds while injured without iron will or no mother, shits annoying
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All the salty comments from these survivor mains is pretty funny. "Spirit is ez low risk high reward." Keys, DS, DH, toolboxes say hi. Lets not even talk about god windows or corn maps. =p
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Yeah, sorry, miss read your post my bad.
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Spirit is NOT a hard killer to play. People say a lot about Billy but he has a higher floor AND ceiling than her.
I no longer say she carries bad players though because that's Freddy's job now. He's even easier and almost as powerful.
The only ~but~ here is that she struggles when sounds are as screwed up as they are now, but when sounds work properly there's no working around a good Spirit in chases. Even Iron Will might get you off the hook once but she doesn't need to hear your grunts of pain, there are other sounds in the game.
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You make me laugh
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No, Stridor negates half of Iron Will, making the reason for using Iron Will redundant.
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There is one hard killer to play in this game, even at a basic level. That's Nurse. She has a high skill floor and ceiling.
There are a few more killers that are easier to learn the basics but hard to master at their full potential. Huntress, Demo, Billy and Oni come to mind.
There are killers that are mechanically easy but have some aspect of strategic gameplay that makes them hard in different ways to play at a high level. Those are Trapper and Hag. Sure you can just play Trapper as Man with Machete but you need good trap placements to even stand a chance vs good survs (you'll probably lose anyway cause he;s week but ok)
Besides those killers I listed, there's nothing else hard to play in this game. Spirit's skill floor is just a tad higher than general M1 killer skill floor but once you understand how her power works her ceiling gets extremely low.
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Well, considering most players in forums unironically believe trials are unwinnable without old ruin, your statement doesn't mean much to me.
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It is kind of BS, anyone who says she's amongst the easiest and has a low skill floor don't really understand the concept. Legion has a low skill floor, Billy has a low skill floor. BUBBA has a low skill floor. Clown has a low skill floor.
Now, I'm not saying Spirit is particularly taxing to play, but she can be very add on reliant for one, requires headphones to be played at full potential as two. Honestly, here skill floor isn't as high as someone like Oni or Nurse, or maybe even the trap characters (because tile layout+trap knowledge requires prediction and other skills no other killer relies on),but her power literally works on prediction and paying attention to environmental clues, and to say a 110 killer at loops is braindead is just, well, braindead. It doesn't matter that you can mindgame pallets if you mindgame yourself, and good survivors can loop still escape against her.
Now I will say she definitely gets a disproportionate amount of value vs the skill and time it takes to play her well, but honestly, she isn't doing anything too crazy and at the end of the day She's only 1 out of 3-4 strong killers that doesn't need buffs or nerfs.
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She's the epitome of bad design: high-ish floor, low ceiling.
The difference between a mediocre Spirit and a good Spirit is game fundamentals (and good headphones), that's all.
Compare that to Billy who has an okay floor and a very high ceiling, or Huntress who's the same, or Nurse who has an absurdly high floor AND ceiling which is what a hard character should be about. Lack of depth is never a good thing. Low effort granting big results is also never a good thing.
I'm not saying she's the only one who suffers from this problem. This game is full of characters with little to no depth. But imo Spirit and Freddy are the biggest offenders of low effort, very high reward.
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Dirty skill lacking killers being carried by having a pc that can run the game!
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Those are people that don't play as Spirit against good survivors. Don't get me wrong, she's maybe the best killer in the game, but I've never died to a Spirit that wasn't insanely good. I escape them more often than not.
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Tip: Stand still at a pallet and watch them freak out
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I'm sorry to say man, cuz I'm not trying to be rude, But that is talking out your ass 101.Again, not trying to be a dick, but all that just sounds like BS to me. So you mean to tell me every spirit you play doesn't mind game themselves at pallets? That Iron will isn't a meta perk that basically counters the best tool Spirit has? That prediction alongside with no collision and 110 movement speed doesn't inherently take good skill play? On top of that, you say she has a highish barrier for entry at the very beginning, you just admitted you have to learn her to do well with her, that's bad game design to you? This is all theory crafting BS anyway, so let's take a real look at this.
Take what you just said and apply it to Freddy. Freddy is an M1 killer who is passively invisible from a distance(intermittently so with add ons), has automatic action and gen speeds debuff without touching you, gets to spam traps with pretty much no slowdown and basically gets to cancel loops, gets to teleport halfway across the map or fake out the tele with major synergy with some strong perks, etc. etc. Kill rate higher than Spirit btw. What does that say about your "low skill ceiling"?
Also Billy does not have a High skill ceiling, he's just learning the tiles well enough to chainsaw across the map. Oni technically has a higher ceiling because you have to be judicious with when and where to use his power. Nurse is the only one to really claim a high skill ceiling though.
And tbh, no killer needs that high of a skill ceiling anyway. If anything Nurse is busted difficult to get into, to the point once the old mains get bored/frustrated with her, she basically won't exist anymore. Meanwhile with the recent ruin nerf, the barrier of entry as survivor has never been lower, while the skill ceiling is at an all time medium!
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Spirit is one of the most mechanically challenging killers in the game. She is not a crutch, but a deadly tool.
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Am I doing something wrong here? I have no Idea how to play Spirit, and have a very hard time learning her.
She is by far not an "easy" killer to play.
RIP having any inkling of doing Spirit daily since the nerfs.
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Spirit has a much higher skill ceiling than Billy. A top level Spirit is exponentially more powerful than a top level Billy.
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That's not what skill ceiling means. Ofc Spirit is stronger, but Billy has MUCH more skill expression.
The difference between a good Spirit and a great Spirit is very small. The difference between a good Billy and a great Billy is absurd.
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You just showed you have no idea of what "skill ceiling" is.
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I think it's the other way around is what I'm saying. Spirit can be played at a much higher level than Billy. Not saying he's bad, just worse than Spirit.
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I agree Spirit has a high skill ceiling although after playing her enough I'd also argue that anyone with headphones will do far better as her compared to other killers with a lot less effort. She's one of those killers who can be played skillfully or brainlessly and have similar outcomes. Although I'd lean more towards yes playing Spirit can get you more kills as a bad player than if you were to play other killers like let's say Wraith. Although Spirit definitely doesn't have a higher skill ceiling than Nurse / Huntress.
Considering Spriit's power is basically just a massive lunge where survivors cannot see you and all you need to do is listen for footsteps, grass moving or in some cases their grunts of pain. If sound stops you can just assume they quit moving or are walking near where you last saw them.
To me the difference between a good Spirit and a bad one is Spirit players who are able to track even without sounds or can deal with Iron Will effectively. Bad ones rely on stuff like Stridor too much although I'll compromise and acknowledge sounds are broken half the time so I get why it's used. Mind you not all Spirit's who use Stridor are bad but the majority of them I notice using them are pretty bad and tend to tunnel a lot.
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Yes, I don't fundamentally disagree with that. That's just being a higher tier though, it has nothing to do with skill ceiling.
Freddy can be played at a higher level than Demogorgon because his kit is inherently stronger, but Demo has a much higher skill ceiling.
"Skill ceiling is a different story. This is the set of skills, techs, and knowledge it takes to truly master a hero."
Knowing how to use your power in every single possible tile and scenario as Demogorgon is harder than anything Freddy has to offer, so he has a high skill ceiling. Freddy is more powerful because he's a higher tier.
Knowing everywhere possible you can use your chainsaw, every single loop curve you can make, knowing 100% of the time what chainsaws you can make depending on what add-ons you're running, all of this is exponentially harder than anything you can learn about Spirit. So he has a higher skill ceiling. Spirit is still stronger, so she's a higher tier.
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Almost all the killers have no learning curve to speak of past knowing the shared one of how survivors react. Doctor just had his removed since you don't got to really figure out timing as much with no reduction in speed and no need to switch modes.
Step 1) Headphones. You are putting a gun in your mouth with speakers.
Step 2) Find survivor. Use special ability to close distance only enough to catch up and not lose sight.
Step 3) Hit survivor.
Step 4) Get stuck at a pallet? Oh boy you got multiple options. Phase to them, pretend you're phasing by just standing still or just do the usual way. Phasing has risks if you mess up. It has less risks if you got spirit fury. Pretend phasing works better if the pallet is down or on a strong loop.
Step 5) After getting the survivor you use your fast phasing speed to do whatever you want.
You don't need add ons as spirit. Base kit you're strong. Once the survivor is injured they're #########. The only people that are harder to play against is iron will people and you can just avoid that by not doing long phases. Suck at keeping survivors in line of sight? Run one of the multiple perks that do it for you.
In short: Spirit's only learning curve is figuring out when and how to phase. A very small one that only takes a few games. Her "nerf" makes no difference it just takes the training wheels off. I would argue she's the one time the killer's nerfs actually balanced her just fine. tl;dr: Yeah you're doing it wrong and her nerf doesn't impact people that knew what to do to begin with. Before her nerf she was broken and as a result: overused. People like to forget how people take advantage of broken killers or add ons though! They only remember the negatives.
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A skill ceiling is the maximum potential for which player input can be translated to skill expression. I don't think YOU get that concept, as you seem to think any killer in this game doesn't operate mostly on fundamentals in the way you assert Spirit does.
Which is a laughable statement in itself considered she has one of the most unique mechanics in this game that requires she plays with a different game sense, but it's all "FuNdAmEnTaLLs" like how are fundamentals factoring into using whispers to sneak up on a survivor for that early game pressure, or factored into predicting survivor tendencies to determine without sight, not only which direction they go, but where exactly they are (since her lung nerf made correcting yourself mid apperance not a thing).
You know what I think? I think you realised what you said was stupid, so in order to maintain some sense of boyancy, you tried to tilt the conversation. Nice try brother, I play fighting games, you aren't going to just throw terminology out there as a safeguard to bad arguments.
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Yes, that's exactly what a skill ceiling is.
If you think using your ears and winning guessing games that are rigged in your favor in the first place has more skill expression than knowing the potential for a chainsaw in every single loop/tile in this game, I'd say you're objectively wrong, and that the overwhelming majority of people who play this game for a living would agree with me. If you're born with ears and the minimum of situational awareness you should NOT lose survivors while you're phasing. Not even if they're using Iron Will.
I also play fighting games buddy. And many other kinds of competitive games.That doesn't make you special, nor does it make your point more valid.
And I honestly don't feel like discussing this with someone who can't display a tad of civility when disagreeing with someone so goodbye
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Me: But... But...
Inner me: No. No... He's got a point....
And I love you random player!
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Spirit is only somewhat challenging to play if the survivors have iron will (without the sound bugs obviously). Can't believe people are saying she is more challenging to play than hillbilly. Learning how to curve around loops alone is much more challenging than anything spirit has. Not to mention you also have to be good at countering regular loops as hillbilly, spirit can't even be looped.
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