Survivor sided game. Prove me wrong. I'll respond
Point 1
S-6 obj
So gens are 80seconds each plus 20 for the gate so each survivor is responsible for 105 seconds of an objective or 7 minutes for the group. AT BASE
Killer-12 obj (each hook)
So it all comes down to this 35 seconds for find, a chase, a down and a hook is expected for a killer each time. 12 times with no mistakes to get a 4k win. Dispite how the last guy gets free hatch
Point 2
Survivors have a better field of vision. Killers are locked into a small first person window
Point 3
Survivors have 12 perk slots as team to counter the killers meager 4 slots.
Point 4
Survivors can each bring tools with ultra rare add ons while the killer can at most bring 2 if that killer has that many.
Survivors keep tools and addons at escape while the killer has to grind for his each and every match. Survivors can also gain tools within the match and leave with them.
Point 5
Skill checks have visual and audio cues so after the first few hours of this game you shouldn't miss another one, making them irrelevant because they are so easy.
Terror radius and red stain help survivors locate the killer while the killer only has sounds of repair and crows but he triggers crows himself so they dont often help and take a while to respawn.
Point 6
Teamwork like rotating chases, com communication, hook rush and body blocking are only some of the huge advantages that killers cant compete with.
Rambles.
2k-2E is not how the game is made otherwise we would see the score screen at 2 kills.
Most arguments are modeled upon ranks, time played, or who mains what. I have played since launch and hit every rank on all characters each year I play both sides but 2019 que times have forced me to be killer more often rather then wait 20minutes a survivor match. So so so many stats are missing that players just dont have access too...
but 50% kill rate could mean 3 players get 4-k and 3 players get 0-K.
If you camp or tunnel with mori you can get a 1 kill almost every match. If you bring key or ask friends to dc you can get hatch every match. These do nothing for the quality of the game nor should we discuss balance on that or how top streamers play.
All killer perks have counters but maybe 1 and survivors don't have any perks that can be disabled by common killer action like hexes can.
If I'm missing something or I'm not understanding something please explain it the best you can.
Comments
-
It’s objectively killer sided. The stats and data prove this.
7 -
How.
14 -
Killers kill more than survivors escape.
3 -
We can't, cause u right
28 -
50% kill rate or whatever you wanna make up
could mean 3 players get 4-k and 3 players get 0-K.
And awnser me this do they die because they made mistakes in stealth to get found, mistakes in chase to get hit, and then mistakes as team to not get a save?
9 -
What is your definition of "Survivor-sided"?
1 -
Stats that they have already admitted time and time again are greatly skewed. The whole ruin rework is because of these same statistics are skewed. They even admitted that they take statistics at too wide of a perception.
Really is that your immediate go to on trying to debate against this guy with actual facts?
23 -
These stats have been proven unreliable by the Devs themselves. Far too many variables, would you like me to name one?
16 -
The game is not killer or survivor sided. The issue is that it's too easy to pip on both sides, so people over-estimate their skill and when they lose against a better opponent they blame the game. Of course there's a bunch of RNG mixed in, but RNG favours survivors as often as it favours killers.
7 -
That's not conclusive. Rank 20 survivors who are trying to learn the game for the first time could account for a huge portion of that number. Red rank/purple data is whats important.
(Rank 20 survivor vs rank 20 killer) killer usually wins imo but red ranks is a completely different story.
9 -
If I understand you, your saying that the ranking system makes it too easy to advance so people aren't placed in even matches making it difficult to gauge the games balance.
I can agree with that. Correct me if I'm wrong
Please explain what you mean by RNG and how much it effects team balance ?
1 -
In favor of. Making them an Easier gameplay experience or making killers weak by comparison and more difficult to play
0 -
You mean the stats and data that the devs confirmed to be innaccurate?
8 -
red ranks killers still win. Theres always an excuse but it's never the case.
1 -
Is this also from devs or your opinion?
9 -
So based on.....gut feelings, you assume that survivors are escaping more than dying? Since you have no data to back it up.
1 -
"Red rank killers still win"
ok... yeah, but do they win because the survivors failed all the second chance perks and played poorly ?
How long does a rank one killer stay rank do killers stay in red rank long or do they float in and out constantly trying to stay because survivors DC and make then depip?
6 -
This is what I mean by excuses. Theres always excuses.
Are you saying people should be expected to play perfectly with zero mistakes?
Do killers make mistakes in missing survivors right in front of their eyes? mistakes in committing to a 5 gen chase? mistakes in chasing survivors into strong areas away from gens? mistakes from focusing too hard (tunneling) one survivor and ignoring the rest? mistakes on approaching loops the wrong way or constantly changing direction thus dragging out the loops?
See theres always an excuse but you could argue the same for the killer side.
6 -
Oh? Really?
How about that the MatchMaker sees a Red Rank game as the following:
One Red Rank Killer, 4 Rank 20 Survivors.
That is considered a Red Rank game. It only needs one to count.
Still doubtful? That's fair, I would be too.
The current Ranking System (and Rank Reset) are broken. It is extremely easy for Survivors to pip, but difficult for most Killers to pip (except Legion). As such, there are a lot of boosted Survivors in Red Ranks. Everybody knows they really belong in Green Ranks but they are up there. Heck, even I'm in Red Ranks and I suck as Survivor. Because of that, Killer kill rates are likely GREATLY inflated.
Since both of these are happening at the same time, we cannot take any data given seriously. The skill difference between an average Red Rank Killer and an average Red Rank Survivor is absolutely enormous because of the broken nature of the ranking system and therefore, you cannot extrapolate any accurate data.
10 -
Well you did just try to justify this whole thread with confirmed bad data, so I am not seeing you providing any reliable proof either.
8 -
On your first point - kind of. Specifically, what I meant is that (red) rank gives people false perception of their skill and a lot of people expect to be at an even playing field against other people in red ranks, however that's not the case. Because of how easy it is to pip as killer and survivor there are a lot of people in reds that are not that experienced, but because of their rank they are tricked into thinking that they are more skilled than they actually are, so if they get outplayed they are more likely to blame balance in the game, rather than a gap in skill.
My main point is that the game is fairly balanced at it's core, with RNG (random factors) occasionally tipping the scales to either side (killer or survivor), sometimes making it possible to win against people who are better than you, or lose to people who are less skilled than you. This applies both to killer and survivor.
The real imbalance in the game in my opinion comes from matchmaking (i.e. people are not matched up against other people at their skill level) and not from the game's mechanics.
I hope i made a bit more sense this time.
0 -
Obviously a rank 20 killer main made this thread how on Earth is the game survivor sided? None of your points made any sense lol kids these days so boosted
Survivors have to deal with constant waves of nerfs from already boosted killers on top of their fragile ego trip that they camp and tunnel
0 -
I see what you mean about excuses and I want to get away from my own experiences as much as possible and
my apologies.
To answer you I'd go to point number 1 and and 5 that survivors dont often make skillcheck mistakes, and that the window of mistakes for each side is vast.
35 seconds for an objective on killer is a tight tight window and even one mistake can cost him that objective while a mistake on survivor objectives can be covered and split among the other 3.
Pretend the killer makes a 30 second mistake and a single survivor makes a 30 second mistake. The killer looses 30 seconds and an objective. 3 survivors take 10 seconds longer and the mistake is made up for.
In perfect ideal games my argument is its survivor sided. In mistake riddled games my argument is the killer as vastly less room for error and its survivor sided
Let me ask you this, in my long winded OP if taken as true are those advantages enough to agree that its survivor sided ?
With either yes or no to that are there any points I made you disagree with.
2 -
RNG
Random factors like map size and totem placement ?
I get that alittle but I cant think of any rng that helps the killers giving them advantage...
Every tile has its pallets and windows and I know some totem spawns are bugged to be invincible but i always see them rolling new patches to fix that.
Well I think we can all agree match making is broken since I'm not even getting matched at my rank anyway I'm not sure it matters.
I can't say that mm and RNG are the only things affecting balance but I can say its effecting myself and others perceptions and we cant collect data to make real changes until that's fixed.
0 -
I don't think anyone who actually plays both sides at rank 1 would disagree.
8 -
I would say it if requires less effort/focus in general to play survivor, but its hard to say if its easier to complete your goal since there are no explicit win/lose conditions for either role.
All the points that you made are just stating the differences between the roles that the game was designed with, and not really taking into account that its an asymmetrical game with completely different objectives on each side.The game is balanced around those design decisions - they don't really say anything about what side is favored.
I think you can say certain maps are more survivor or killer sided relative to other maps, but I don't think you can say that the game itself is survivor or killer sided due to it being asynchronous and having no explicit win conditions.
1 -
Hmm another echo chamber...
You're pretty set in your opinion, so I'll refrain from arguing on behalf of sensible and unbiased people.
2 -
Oh yeah - in regards to you first point, just because i've seen a bunch of posts bring up the 12 hook think a few times today - I'm willing to bet that out of all games that end in a 4k, probably around ~5% of them involve the killer getting 12 hooks.
0 -
I would like to know what variables you are referencing. Not sharpshooting, just curious.
0 -
You literally could've added something to the discussion but instead just wrote that 0_0.
9 -
But Wafffffllllllleeee - I'm here tooooooooo 😇
0 -
I explained why I wouldn't. Jic someone was wondering.
0 -
Haha sorry didn't notice 😁
2 -
I 4k almost every game right now. I can barely ever escape if I play solo survivor. The stats we have reflects this as does the experience of many.
Red ranks are completely watered down due to new rank reset. I had a Spirit daily. Haven’t played her since the demo update when all the bugs started so I was rusty and barely used her power effectively. Went against a 3 man swf. They had between 150 - 300 hours playtime each. To anyone new that might sound like a lot but red ranks previously used to be at least 1,500 hours per survivor. Bare minimum 800 hours. Those games were super sweaty.
Needless to say it was a cakewalk. 2 gens done and 4k.
This is everygame now. This is why its so hard to win as survivor but so easy to win as killer.
My point is that whatever people think about balance it’s moot now. Killers are dominating. Its very unlikely you would get 4 great survivors in a game.
Previously yeah red rank games could be incredibly difficult but I think until the new matchmaking is in place it makes it impossible to talk about balance. You can’t really justify making any changes at the moment.
4 -
Fair enough. By RNG I didn't necessarily mean totem spawns or map sizes. One example where RNG can favour survivors or killers is tile and pallet spawns.
- Certain maps sometimes spawn specific tiles right next to each other where a survivor can loop the killer almost indefinitely without even having to drop a single pallet. E.g. long wall jungle gym connected to cow tree connected to TL walls with a filler pallet in between.
- Certain maps also are able to spawn complete dead zones with gens in them where if a killer goes after a survivor they are getting a hit before said survivor gets to a pallet no matter what
There are many other examples (survivor/killer spawn locations, perk loadouts, latency, bugs, pig's traps and so on), but I don't want to make this post too long, so I'll leave it at this. If you do want more examples where RNG favours killers specifically, I'll oblige.
2 -
Bad data is better than no data
0 -
Even ignoring balance. Playing as some killers simply isn't fun.
I wouldn't mind survivors getting buffed in exchange for longer games. The most exciting part of this game for me are the chases not doggedly micromanaging gens. I'd like to commit to some chases without half the game being finished already.
0 -
Killers have Power, survivor not. Killer sided game.
2 -
It's actually worse. It misleads the public and starts pointless arguments.
6 -
You probably 4k everygame due to survivors with an inflated rank. 90% of my games as killer is the same, at least 2 potatoes in the team which results in an easy 3k/4k.
It's very easy to rank up as survivor, even solo survivor due to a lack of high rank killers. I'm not that good at survivor and I'm doing alot better than I should because of this.
You are right about matchmaking breaking the game, the devs should never have changed it from average rank to highest rank. And discussing which role is harder is difficult because of it.
1 -
Sorry this reply is sort of useless but don't take the bait. They're pretty well-known for starting things and causing people to get angry so I wouldn't keep falling for their comments lmao.
0 -
To get a 4k without 12 hooks means tunnel, camp, slugg.
Slugg the game discourages and looses lots of points, camping and tunnel the dev's actively make perks to counteract and reduce emblems because of it. To say 12 hooks isnt how the game should go is to tell every person in the forums that tunneling and camping is how killers are supposed to play.
And I dont disagree... but good luck trying to get people on board with being tunneled
0 -
I'm not mad, so far noone has really argued with my OP and just added to it with different things I didnt consider. Certain people argue me on every post in the forum but I'd like to think they just have a different perspective they haven't convinced me of yet.
It's a frustrating game... most people are here to vent in between long matchmaking
0 -
EDIT I'll put it to you this way... I don't see survivors complaining about anything other then being camped or noed, but u see 3000hour killer mains talk about quitting daily
0 -
Do you disagree with any of my points ?
It's not an echo chamber I'm borderline begging for someone to tell me what they think differently
0 -
I am a survivor main and even I know that survivors either need nerfed or killers need buffed ik there is data (even if it is false/not credible) because I play in the red ranks and I can see how the math of the game is not on the killers side if you get four people who know what they are doing the killer has no chance I’m not saying I’m that much better then the killer two where he gets three hooks and the survivors win (especially swf groups because it takes out a lot of unknowns for the survivors with coms) ((this is my opinion))
2 -
I would say this game is SWF survivor sided.
SWF with at least 2 decent survivor can guarantee at least 3 escape.
2 -
Do you agree that the Nurse is the weakest killer in the game because going by statistics she is.
If you don't agree with me then why? You're going by statistics and sticking with them and you don't believe the Nurse is the weakest killer then you are just picking and choosing statistics to try and backup your point.
I'm generally curious because no one ever replies to me when they throw the kill rates of killers out there to back up their point but the moment I ask if the nurse is the weakest kill because statistically is she they don't reply because if they disagree they are admitting the data isn't accurate and lets be honest no one will agree she is the weakest killer.
2 -
Of course if we find newbies who run to the void instead of a pallet 🤷🏻♂️ They have to fix matchmaking to give an accurate number plus they should discard games were people suicide in first hook or second hook as thats not how devs want the game.
1 -
You can't be 'proven wrong' or right about something, unless you define that something first. What is your definition of survivor-sided? Is it based on the best players? On all the player-base? Take it from there, next time.
0
