Tunneling

Agreed some perks shouldn't be perks at all should instead be normal gameplay mechanic.

If survivors are ever slowed with an additional objective or just slower repair speed, then yes, BT being built in should absolutely be on the table (amongst other things). Until that happens though, I would say no. At this point, both sides are stuck addressing their issues with perks, so it wouldn’t be fair to help one side’s in the base game and not the other. That’s the issue I have with everyone who just wants the survivor side nerfed. Address both or neither. Only fair.

@HeyItsNick123andnea

I tend to align with the Killer Mains more (best to admit bias early on) but I can see where you're coming from with the complaints of tunneling. Excluding the obvious bait you've been arguing with most killers don't like tunneling much more than survivors. The problem isn't that tunneling is a strategy, it's that it's one of the consistent ways to garuntee success. The fact that, no matter the situation, you have more to gain by tunneling (even with your borrowed time suggestion, that's still one less player) is the problem.

Punishing a killer won't fix that. Making a killer put slightly more effort into it than they would otherwise also won't fix that (the borrowed time baseline suggestion). And if we were to go to the extreme and make survivors immortal for an extended time to protect them from this, assuming the survs didn't abuse this immortality (they would, everyone abuses an advantage. Otherwise this tunneling conversation wouldn't occur), it would only highlight the initial reason some killers choose to lean towards this playstyle. There aren't any rewards for playing nice. There isn't any reason to slowly kill off the survivors collectively. You always benefit more in the long run strategically by downing someone as quickly as possible or removing someone as quickly as possible.

You shouldn't make the game harder for killers than it already is, but instead highlight a more friendly playstyle with rewards. More points for chasing different survivors, a buff to the killer or a debuff to survivors if they don't focus one person down.

And in fairness, I feel the same way about what's going on with survivors. The biggest complaint killers have is gen rushing but there is zero reward for not genrushing. If you want to win, that is the best strategy. In turn they should be rewarded more for playing in a more interractive way. You can't remove toxicity with a big stick, that'll just breed more and invite people to abuse it (farming the baseline borrowed constantly) you have to make the non toxic playstyles stand out as a better option. Positive reinforcement of good gameplay rather than negative reinforcement of all gameplay.

Disagree. Borrowed Time being innate would just make something survivors are doing WRONG into something they're doing right. Survivors should fix themselves, not have the game fix their mistakes for them. Tunneling is only a thing because survivors without Borrowed Time unhook right in front of the killer's face whether he's camping or not. There are easy solutions to this. Don't unhook right in front of the killer's face, and bring Borrowed Time if you're going to unhook. Otherwise don't unhook and let someone else do it, or at LEAST bring We'll Make It, then wait for the killer to leave, unhook and heal to full health. You just saved your teammate without a misplay which led to neither of you getting hit afterward, Congratulations on playing correctly.

no. thats WAY too strong

I had people call me a tunneler and my response has been "you were just tea baggin and flashlight clicking so much i thought you wanted my undivided attention". So many people will try to get the killers attention and then complain when they get. Sometimes tunneling comes a killers lack of skill or knowledge. Sometimes killers are just being bad word. Sometimes i get called a tunneler because i just happen to run into that survivor. How do you punish the killer that are just being bad word vs those that are subject to chance, new or giving the survivor what they wanted?

Lol...You can't penalize someone playing the game the way they think they can win. For some players, tunneling can be a strategy (i.e. kill off one player to pressure gen rushes or tunneling a survivor as an obsession to gain perk benefits). Your suggestion is equivalent to suggesting that bhvr penalizes survivors for bragging at pallets.

Lmao dude what do you expect Survivors to do

Considering it's been 3 years and it's still a problem I doubt tunneling is gonna be the death of DbD.

The last person who t-bagged at a pallet didn't catch on to the fact that I was running STBFL. ;)

Food for thought: If a viable strategy is causing players to leave the game, whose fault is it in the end? The party employing the viable strategy, the party on the receiving end, or the devs for allowing such a strategy to exist?

And this is a sweaty killer main at his finest ladies and gentlemen. Probably not even good at the game.

Alright, firstly, I would like to say I am not coming off as rude, too-blunt, dismissive, etc. I am here to give you my opinion on this ^,^

I want to start off by saying why tunneling is a valid strategy. Tunneling is used to ensure pressure mid-game and EGC/end-game. Mid-game, 2 or less gens is what I consider mid-game/early late, you often need to tunnel someone dead in order to apply that significant amount of pressure. Four survivors are a lot to handle (using a lot loosely of course), when gens are close, getting close, or are getting done optimally. I tunnel someone in this scenario, because I need pressure, and three survivors are easier to juggle than four. I can apply more pressure on gens and the survivors, when I have one less to deal with. However, you lose pressure when you tunnel a first-hook survivor dead -- and I know killers do that, but I digress. In addition to applying pressure via tunneling this way, end-game/EGC tunneling is required to ensure your kill, especially when you don't have kills to begin with. In addition to that, you have a chance of hook-trading survivors, so that is immensely beneficial towards you as the killer.

I understand why tunneling can be frustrating. Especially when you're tunneled from first-to-dead hook. You don't get to play and lose pips/points/etc. However, this isn't reason enough to make BT basekit. BT is a strong perk, and rightfully so. As mentioned beforehand, the above tactics are viable tactics, and are tactics in which the killer has in their toolkit. Tools that they are and should be able to use as needed to apply pressure. BT can and will easily devoid the killer of that pressure by making the other player temporarily immune -- gives them an extra health state if you will. Having this basekit with no other changes will create problems. There's no maybe, no if -- it will create problems.

Every "meta" perk has potential to be abused. By abuse I mean the same that is done with current DS. People will have BT and the killer could leave them be, go after someone else, and the BT person comes and interrupts a potential down for the killer -- a down that wasn't even related to the BT person, wasn't a tunnel by no means. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, it's a valid strategy. As survivor, I do it now with current BT.

Killers have to snowball in order to win, for the most part. Snowballing is, in a way, their only means to "counter" (using counter loosely here) the fast gen speeds -- and we know even with the changes recently made, that they are still fast. As Hag, I am GUARANTEED to lose two generators. I've gotten to the point where I'm not bothered by it, because I rely and have to, on snowballing.

Personally, some perks need to remain as perks, because of their insane value and potential. As well, I've always seen BT as more of a counter to camping than to tunneling -- always seen DS to be a tunneling counter. But that's just my view on it. I'm a firm believer in a change made to one side needs to be met/immediately followed by a similar change to the other side. Changes on one side can cause more imbalance, and right now, balance is key.