Once again, DS it not an anti-tunnel perk

I can see that working though.

if you read both of my comments you see that i say the two perks need a balance, i dont want them nerf`d because i dont see the point in everyone complaining instead i want to find that middle ground where every side can be happy, but in recap i said there are strong and weak perks, every game has them but because theyre so strong that creates the issues, most other perks need a buff and these need a balance check so for example

DS - Deactivates after youre off the hook and another survivor is DOWNED and HOOKED (hooked an already slugged person wont work). DS now also counters moris, what these changes do is make DS a full anti-tunnel perk. whether the killer has a mori or not he will be punished for tunneling the person off the hook

BT - If in chase BT doesnt activate (this one needs work but atm BT is free altruism, what i mean by this is run the perk and every unhook will be safe and you can just pip to red ranks by simply running that one perk. they some how need not reward the savior for just running straight to the hook even in chase, the point is you should try get safe saves and have BT as a last resort instead of the common "oh i have BT, its a free save" even if theyre right infront of the killer)

Except NOED actually has a counter.

"i would say not having any fear of a killer is an issue tbh"

No. There is one perk in the game that removes some fear of the killer for a single minute of the match: DS. It was MEANT to be that way. It states it right in the perk description. It literally says: "There's nothing to be scared of." — Laurie Strode. In pretty much any horror movie ever, there is a victim who faces the killer head on and ultimate turns out to be the survivor. This is completely inline with the theme of this game and the DLC that released this perk. And it is a required perk to counter current rampant cheap game play by killers.

"it's not a 1v1, its a 4v1"

Great point, which is exactly why the killer can easily go for someone else. You don't HAVE to go for the person who is being freshly off hooked, nor do you HAVE to go for the person who was unhooked in the last 60 seconds. That's a choice. And if you make that choice, it only stands to reason that it should be risky. If you waste your own time because you tried to go for the low hanging fruit vs. give them a chance to play the game, thats on you.

This is also an assumption on your part that every single person is carrying both DS and BT. I admit, they are common perks, but I rarely have a match where every single person is carrying both of these perks. And there are killers, items, and offerings that allow the killer to insta-down survivors without having to even waste a perk slot to do it. A mori causes the killer to only do 30% of their job in a match. Tell me again how DS and BT - both mainly responses to poor game play tactics are unbalanced?

DS has never been a 100% anti-tunnel perk, and it shouldn't be. It works exactly as it is supposed to. The fact that you have to hit a survivor one extra time because you couldn't be bothered to flush out someone else in the course of 60 seconds or don't feel like running out the timer is dumb and entitled on the part of killers everywhere who seem to just want survivors to have zero useful perks against them...in addition to zero opportunities to escape chases...or the map in general.

Your last comment makes no sense. I know keenly the gen completion times, but your statement doesn't add up.

That quote is used in the films, in which she is constantly screaming and terrified through them all. she fears him, she doesnt toy with him like survivors do with killers in dbd. obviously the game isnt scary i mean we all run around trash piles or hey its not really scary is it, i just mean in the aspect you as a survivor shouldnt be happy and willing to be downed or grabbed just so you can use DS. its also not the issue of chasing someone else either its the issue of doing that extra chase then hooking that person then being hit by that DS later on even though you have hot other people and hooked them. as a killer wasting time can cost you the match, its not like survivor where if youre skilled you can kinda mess about alot more. the issue is the game expects chases to be short, any good killer will not chase beyond 30seconds, some will stop at 20seconds and its possible to get really short chases but after that chase (lets say 20seconds) that DS can still be active for 40seconds. and like i said most matches are fine im just saying when it is a full meta swf it sucks that the perks strong that they help them so much, like we agree its not common but that does show how strong the two perks are when no other perks have that effect. its not about nerfing anything its about balance, too many people hit red ranks, hell pipping is easy, but when people struggle in chases and hardly do objectives but can still pip through BT saves etc. yes its and issue. its not about not being bothered or cant down other survivors because thats not what people dislike its the fact even after you do all those harder chases of not tunneling you can still be punished for doing well and accidentally running into the person with DS while its still active, you cant just leave them. my changes encourage more skillful play on both ends, survivors cant just use BT for easy pips/saves and DS stop those boring tunnel games or being mori`d off hook but encourages the killer to go out more and rewards them for doing so by deactivating the perk. fair and balanced changes for both sides.

That quote defines the intent of the perk perfectly. And she does, in fact, survivor. And she does, in fact, come back aggressive and unafraid.

"you as a survivor shouldnt be happy and willing to be downed or grabbed just so you can use DS."

A) Most people aren't super happy to use DS, as it usually means they are constantly getting chased. Not to say you can't use it for defensively, but it's a huge risk as your obvious boldness can often get you slugged. Which is not all that fun.

B) Thats how perks work. You think a killer passing a totem that's still up in an end-game chase when the last gen is finished isn't happy? When you can use a perk that you had the forethought to bring, even though you might not get to use it, you are pleased. Why should survivors not get to be pleased with their perk selection?

" its the issue of doing that extra chase then hooking that person then being hit by that DS later on even though you have hot other people and hooked them."

This is where the OP is correct - DS IS NOT AN EXCLUSIVELY AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK. As I have said repeatedly, it works exactly how it is supposed to. Also, if you find and hook another survivor(s) between the time you find the person who was just off-hooked with DS, you are probably face rolling that team and it's not a bad thing that they have something to slow you down. A killer recently tried to use DS timer as a means to say it "punishes" killers for being efficient, when in reality, they had a very advantageous aura revealing setup and slugged all three survivors within 35ish seconds of the person with DS getting off-hooked and were mad that person was able to use it because they chose to pick the most recently off-hooked person up first. They literally 4k'd and still had the audacity to complain.

"its not about nerfing anything its about balance"

You are right, it is about balance. And DS, in its current form, is absolutely essential to solo survivors. As I already stated, DS and BT are two of the only things giving solo survivors some semblance of balance against Killers RIGHT NOW, let alone after the coming changes are implemented. You are looking at this entirely from a SWF viewpoint, and the reality is most teams aren't SWF and solo survivors are frequently dominated by killers rn.

"fact even after you do all those harder chases of not tunneling you can still be punished for doing well and accidentally running into the person with DS while its still active, you cant just leave them."

The fact is, if you find them and pick them up with 60 seconds, you aren't engaging in "all those harder chases". And yes, you can just leave them. Or slug them. It's definitely an option.

Nothing about your changes are balanced. They are killer sided. Adding being able to DS a mori is just prolonging the inevitable. A killer will still chase down the DS person and mori them. With smaller maps, less palettes, more dead space, this would be easier than ever. No Thank you.

DS has a counter too. Just find someone else.

As the person said above, some killers never leave the basement lol. Secondly, why should my perk be disabled because a solo teammate farmed me?

I don't disagree with you. I was poking fun at the fact that I, personally, am not phased by that perk. As a Spirit main, they don't last long after stunning me.

Honestly, I would do this:

-Extend the timer by 30 seconds

-Every time a Survivor is hooked, the timer decreases by 75/60/45 seconds.