Punish hook suicides
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You're probably one of those people who think seeing scratch marks and staying at the hook is camping, or that finding the unhooked survivor sitting injured on a gen is tunneling
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This is why they need to redesign the struggle mechanic so that you don't have the option of giving up.
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Then survivors will just afk when they don't want to play out the match just like how killers afk if they give up.
You can't stop people from refusing to play out a match.
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I like how when Killers want to employ unsavory game play that is within the confines of the rules of this game to get survivors out of the match as quickly as possible it is A-Ok - totally "strategy". When survivors employ unsavory game play that is within the confines of the rules of this game to get themselves out of the match as quickly as possible this is unfair and game breaking. 🙄 Gimme a break.
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One side is playing the game, they are engaging with the game mechanics that are presented in order to fulfill their objectives. The other side is using a loophole to disconnect and not play the game.
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You can penalize them and hand out bans for reusing to play the game that they decided to play.
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You acknowledge it yourself right there. They can get the hatch. The game has always been about looking out for yourself primarily.
Also just because you didn't directly insult somebody doesn't mean that you aren't being insulting by making a bunch of snide comments.
But ya sure bud.
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Nah fam. One side is playing as cheap as possible and ignoring 3/4 of their objectives. When Killers actually play to all of their objectives, this game is fun for both sides and people don't hook suicide nearly as often. And Killers can completely stop survivors from being able to do several of their objectives: unhook, heal, etc. A survivors main objective is to escape or die. When escaping is a clear improbability, they are doing what they're supposed to do by dying. :) There's no rule stating a survivor owes a Killer or their teammates multiple hooks. If their likelihood of escape is nil, they are well within their rights to die to the entity and return to the camp fire. 👍️ The less Killers and survivors play like #########, the less likely people are to suicide.
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This thread got dumb. Here are the issues. You can argue these issues, but these are all waaaaah-take-my-ball-and-go-home arguments because I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH THE SCARY MECHANIC WAAAAH THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW SOME ARBITRARY RULES AND NOW I AM MAD.
- Hook suiciding -- especially at the beginning of the match -- is a penalty-free way of disconnecting. While the struggle mechanic continues to exist in this manner, these players should be penalized for doing this, because it serves the same purpose.
- By doing this, you are choosing not to play, even though you willfully queued up with full knowledge of the game mechanics that possibly awaited you at the other end of the loading screen. If you're going to play Dead by Daylight, then PLAY DEAD BY DAYLIGHT. Otherwise just don't queue up for a match?
- The struggle mechanic really should be reworked to prevent players from taking a suicide option, because it is never used for anything other than a) griefing the rest of the team and b) giving someone a cheap hatch escape.
- The "team" aspect of Dead by Daylight is tenuous, since (barring extraordinary SWF coordination) it is a "team" of four players who are working toward a common goal, but are incentivized to prioritize their own safety and victory, and they do not always win or lose together. Therefore, there should not be a mechanic present that allows them to weaponize this mercurial attitude to grief other players penalty-free.
- Behaviour (hey @Peanits why does no one respond to these kinds of threads) is POSITIVELY INSANE and super tone-deaf for introducing an even worse hook mechanic with the Silent Hill killer, requiring skill checks to not die. This is the exact opposite of what they should be doing, because it is going to lead to more angst for all of the above-stated reasons. It's like they're actively greenlighting this kind of griefing.
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How do you square what you just described with two players suiciding on hook within the first two minutes of the game, before there's even time to get anything done?
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Messi can score a hattrick, win MOTM, be on the back of every newspaper the following day and still lose the tie.
One survivor escaping is not a win. In order to pip or get bloodpoints that survivor would still have needed to get gens done, while somebody distracts the killer. Get saves, while somebody distracts the killer and get chased themselves while other people get stuff done. If they get caught, they need someone to save them.
The one thing I've said that you took issue with was some people will argue anything. I think that's a fair point when I can point out the dozens of other times you've said survivors are a team.
You've made the following comments which are the exact points I've made which you are now arguing.
"Not a survivor main, and I agree with him. Go play something else if you can't handle playing the game long enough to see through a round. Something single player you can shut off at any time."
"I don't even need to read any of this to answer: no. The problem lies with humans feeling entitled to just end a game whenever they see fit." But its ok if they do so by killing themselves on hook.
"Was on hatch, waiting for the last survivor other than myself to run out the exit gate so I could get out through hatch, but my team mate was one of those people who stay in the exit gate until the very last second of EGC, so I just died to EGC standing over the hatch while he ran out last second." Why wouldn't they? They get more points for staying and it's not like you were teammates?
"I mean, when I get slugged I don't enjoy it either, but do I think it should be bannable? Absolutely not. Is it against the rules? Absolutely not.Facecamping, it's the same. It's not an enjoyable thing to have happen, but if you want to be a team player you can just tough it out and stick around for your team."
You've repeatedly talked about how DCing screws teammates and how it's wrong. But you don't think the devs should stop people exiting the game early another way. It's contradictory.
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Most people don't hook suicide without a reason. Without knowing anything else about the match, how could I possibly tell you what their motivation is? Maybe they were blatantly AFK and didn't struggle, if two people managed to get hooked that quickly. I suspect if two active people are already hooked within 2 minutes of the game and zero gens are done, they probably aren't enjoying themselves at all and putting the probability of escaping very low. Especially if that circumstance came about because the Killer is camping and the second survivor went in for an ill-advised and unsafe off-hook without a perk to support it. One player gets tunneled. The other gets hook traded. How is that fun/fair for the original hooked survivor? Its not. They have every right to leave a match with an ######### Killer and survivor. Again, its well within their right to return to the camp fire for a match that is more enjoyable. Its completely within the rules of the game. Just like ######### camping/tunneling. Buck up, buttercup.
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Why would they hook suicide instead of disconnecting?
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Hook suicide is not against the rules. Disconnecting is. I'm pretty confident you already know this. ;)
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This is the entire point I am trying to make in this thread. It's a penalty-free way of getting the same result.
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No, its well within the confines of the rules of the game and has completely different requirements. You A) must be hooked. B) you must get through 1st phase without being saved. C) it awards the killer sacrifice points, which DCs do not. They are not the same. Which is why DCs come with penalties and hook suicides are completely justified.
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If you're suiciding on hook, none of that matters to you. You don't care that it's giving the killer points, and you can speed through the escape phase, get to the struggle phase, and die very quickly.
It is a loophole.
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You can't report people who die on hook for unsportsmanlike behavior. You can't force them to stay in game.
If I get hooked and see that at least one of my team mates isn't on a gen, I dip. Immediately.
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That's a really extreme position to take. Not everyone is playing at peak 100% efficiency at all times. This isn't the Olympics.
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No, its not a "loophole", it's a "valid strategy", as Killers like to say. :) Same reason Devs don't allow survivors to struggle once everyone is on 2nd phase hook anymore. According to them, its better for the survivors to move on to the next match - they make more pts that way. Same principle. If you're match is doomed to fail, might as well nip the inevitable in the bud and move on to a more profitable match. 😉
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The issue is, I have Kindred. I run it religiously. There's no reason for everyone to be running for the save. Even moreso, if I get hooked and everyone is urban evading in a corner, again, I dip. Get on a gen, and you get the privilege of having me as a team mate; and believe me, most survivor teams need someone like me on their team to survive. I can actually run killers.
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Oh, a toxic AF killer getting points off my suicide bothers me a lot. But since I can't DC it is the only option. I think it is BS that killers can play however they want but if I want to leave my only option is to volunteer to give them more points. If you have ever read any of my other posts though, you will know that I 100% disagree with there being a DC penalty. Players should not be forced to play together for any reason.
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One thing let you leave the game, with a penalty. The other lets you accomplish the exact same thing with roughly the same level of efficiency, but without a penalty. A loophole is defined as "a means of escape or evasion; a means or opportunity of evading a rule, law, etc." That's literally what this is.
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Other games do this and I suggest bhvr do the same
make the game safe to leave without depips and penalty’s as survivor and killer if 1 or 2 people DC
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This doesn't really counterargue my point, in addition to being very self-aggrandizing.
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It doesn't have to counter your point. You don't really have a valid point to begin with.
My stance is simple. Do gens. Only one person can get chased at a time. There's no reason you guys should be doing anything else.
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Nope.
Lmao.
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You sound like the kind of person who yells at teammates in postgame chat for breaking a totem.
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Nah, I say GG and leave. Good job making assumptions based on nothing. Really helps strengthen the argument you have yet to make.
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One thing lets you leave the game at any time, without any interaction with your opponent, while getting zero BP and taking an in game temp ban. One requires you to interact with your opponent, get caught, get hooked, NOT get off-hooked before your 2nd phase, and gives the Killer more points for your speedy death. One sends you to the lobby for a time out. The other sends you to the campfire to start again. These are apples to oranges and everything in my previous posts still stands. Nothing is ever going to happen to hook suicides. Get over it. :)
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I have no idea who the hell Messi is but I'm assuming it's a sport related thing since you like making nonsensical comparisons to sports, so I'll consider that irrelevant and move on.
Yes, one survivor escaping is a "win," for that one survivor. Because survivors aren't responsible for everybody else escaping. I don't give a damn how much you care about bloodpoints.
Once again, I don't give a rat's ass how many times I've called survivors a "team." It's because it's an easy thing to refer to them to, not because I think that all of them must work with each other. ######### point, stop wasting my time by bringing it up. No amount of quoting my history and bringing it up is going to make what I'm saying wrong: the survivors don't have to help each other if they don't want to. If you disagree, make an actual point against it or cry me a river. Cry the devs a river too.
It's ironic again that you bring up the whole "some people will argue with anything" when you're literally arguing just for the sake of arguing. You still refuse to actually address how survivors are responsible for each other. All you've done so far is make snide remarks and try to criticize my choice of words of all things. You're so hung up on this whole "team" thing that you're forgetting to make any sort of relevant comeback toward my main point: which is that it's completely allowed for people to look out for themselves whether you like it or not -- the whole essence of why this game isn't a team game. I've explained it to you in detail but all you do is make useless points about completely unrelated things like BP and #########. That has nothing to do with the game being comparable to basketball. Go search through my whole entire flippin' comment history if you want and look for every example you can think of where I said "team" -- it doesn't mean you're right.
And about those quotes, practically any time I say something along the lines of "stick the game out" is replying to somebody who's bitching about going against a killer they don't like, or a survivor that said they killed themselves really early on into the game, or a killer who said that they disconnected because the survivors were doing "toxic" things like "looping." There's a clear difference between that, and MY example earlier, which is when all your survivors are just doing nothing in a corner and not bothering to help anyway. In that case, there is no team, and I don't see any reason why somebody should be looked down upon for just ditching their team the same way their team ditched them. That's pretty much what all those quotes boil down to. So don't even try to make that comparison. You even quoted me saying that I don't think things like slugging or facecamping are bannable, so you have to have seen that I'm somebody who doesn't give up or get salty easily. Yet you still would rather suggest that I personally just want to be able to disconnect/kill myself/whatever, just because I happen to be saying something you disagree with.
You even quoted my response to a thread that was all about the "dumbest reasons you've died/lost" talking about me standing over the hatch waiting for the last survivor to leave, using that as a point for your argument when the whole reason I posted that was talking about how it was a situation where I died and it was dumb. And to the comment you made saying "Why wouldn't they? They get more points for staying and it's not like you were team mates," no you don't "get more points" just for simply existing in the game. It's dumb for the same reason that standing at the hatch/gate teabagging until the killer comes to look at you is dumb. There's no practical gain from it, it's for the purpose of messing around. Once again, nice job making up your own strawman to attack instead of actually paying attention to the content of my post.
I don't know if you're just this disingenuous or if you're a complete moron. You have to have something wrong with you to not understand the main point of what I'm saying, which is that survivors aren't responsible for winning and losing together. They worry about themselves. Almost everything you say is either just criticizing me for saying the term "team" when I disagree that survivors are a true team, and trying to be insulting while claiming that you're not directly insulting people. It's honestly pretty pathetic.
My point has been outlined in detail clearly several times now. Take my points for what they are: "Dead by Daylight is not comparable to a real life physical competitive sport. The survivors are not all responsible for each other. Letting yourself go when your team mates aren't bothering to help you is different from baby raging and disconnecting mid match because you had a bad game." If you continue to refuse to make any counterpoints then I'm not going to waste any more time with your delusional ass. Fight against your own made up arguments that you wish that I was making, I'm not gonna entertain your nonsense any longer.
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tldr tbh
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TL;DR Willful misunderstanding of the point @Huff has repeatedly made about survivors not being a proper team, beyond having a loosely shared objective, and the distinction between this and referring to them as a "team" as convenient shorthand. He is getting frustrated at the insistent pushback. I advise just dropping it because people like that are not worth your energy or anger, @Huff
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Yea at this point I'm not taking the bait anymore. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt and not just assuming they're inept right off the bat, but after a certain point it becomes clear it's not worth my time anymore. I enjoy your level-headedness though. You actually see what I'm saying and respond appropriately -- it's surprisingly uncommon around here LOL
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Heh, I try to have discussions with people, and not hotheaded mean-spirited arguments.
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Messi is an argentinian football (soccer) player.
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The Pele of soccer, you might say.
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I know right? Like punish hook suicide. But then again sometimes your teammates are so garbo you just wanna accelerate the inevitable and get it over with.
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I would argue that if it is your instinct to do this because of bad teammates, it is a look-in-the-mirror moment.
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Me? I stay until the end. Even if my teammates are garbo.
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I was responding to your idea about being tempted to accelerate the inevitable.
I always stay until the end, and struggle until the meter depletes. Sometimes, you can turn even a bad game around.
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We'll end the whole conversation about survivors being a team. At this point it's going nowhere, we've both said what we'll say.
But how the hell do you not know Messi? He's like the biggest sports star in the world. Probably the best soccer player of all time.
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Yep. Just like I said, irrelevant. Thanks for the info though, I'll keep it in mind. :P
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At the risk of continuing to derail my own thread (which has pretty much run its course anyway): PFFFFFT nobody's bigger than Roger Federer.
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You are welcome.
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If you suicide on hook that means you lose intentionally. This is what Unsportsmanlike report section is all about. I can report them and i will.
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I'd rather his cages have a neat special effect instead of becoming more like regular hooks.
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Am I wrong?
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Yes.
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Unfortunately there's no way to punish Hook Suicide as far as I know. I would suggest removing the ability to try and kobe entirely without the service of a Perk like Deliverance. That way players can't intentionally bypass first stage. After that you'd have to remove the struggle effect, but that might be too much. At least making the first change might help.
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