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Pop needs a nerf. Seriously.
A lot of people will be in denial over this because of how much they rely on it, but this perk in it's current form is not healthy for the game. Hooking a survivor already cripples the team, the limitless gen regression makes it way too easy to snowball. Imagine if survivors got a free BNP any time they pallet stun the killer? Yeah..
What the perk really needs is a cooldown OR restrict how many times it can be used on one gen consecutively (less reduction after every use on one specific gen maybe)
Comments
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There's a new perk in town to prevent PGTW from being used.
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PGTW is actually very balanced. It rewards the killer for playing correctly by buying them much needed time. Try to play without PGTW or any other gen related perks at reds against decent survivors and enjoy 2 hooks per game at max.
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no, gens speeds are too fast.
You cant address one without addressing the other.
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Nah. When they nerf base gen speeds directly they can nerf pop.
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pop is strong yes, but it need someone to get hooked, and no a hook is not that cripling considering the generator take 2-1 minute, again i understand it's annoying but if we are to nerf all annoying perk we'll have only ######### perk for both side.
Aslo something will always be too strong for someone that's how it is. aslo the cooldown is if you hook someone before using pop you loose a 25% regression wich is a lot. instead of nerfing they should start to buff beceause it's getting annoying to nerf or "rework".
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Both sides have perks that prevent objective progress of the other one.
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Hmm i wonder why a lot of players rely on a gen slowdown perk...
Maybe it is because gens are done without Them way too fast?
No it cant be that...
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I love how every potato survivor main complain that killers "rely" too much on X perk, when they have been playing the same 3 busted second chance perks for more than 2 years. At least with killers we have variety in our builds.
It's not DS, DH, BT, like every ######### survivor.
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Hooks don't cripple the team as much as you think. There is a reason why people are so willing to eat a hook for a friend since it doesn't negatively impact the player once they are unhooked as well as the reasons why some players continue and finish the gen they are on before going for the save. Besides encountered a player with that lockdown perk so I couldn't kill their 90%+ gen.
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Pop is probably one of the more balanced "meta" perks out there
Rewards killer for doing well. It gives killers a strategic choice cause when you go kick a gen you're not chasing a survivor and it has counterplay by NOT tapping the almost complete gen that's regressing when a killer downs someone near it. Hate when survivors do that
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As a survivor main, I think pgtw is fine. Often times killers will need it to deal with survivors who are extremely fast at doing gens.
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it's a trash perk. the cooldown is way too short and the killer can just wait it out and still use pop, meanwhile no survivors can repair it. 100% a sandbag perk.
if you only get 2 hooks per game without pop then you're relying on it as a crutch instead of accepting your mistakes and improving your killer gameplay, which was my point.
having a perk to "fix" the issue doesn't fix anything, it's only a bandage that causes as much harm as good (I.e stomping out non SWF/ coordinated survivor teams)
Sarcastic comment with pseudo-logic to derail the thread. Bond is nowhere near as powerful as pop, selfcare should have a cooldown IF it healed you fully in like 5 seconds (which it doesn't), inner strength works on totems and is ALREADY limited (only 5 totems on the map for 4 survivors, you really didn't think that one through at all). if you're gonna troll please try, it's more fun that way.
it does if there is a huge skill difference in the matchup OR the killer is running other OP perks/ addons and the survivors can't go run for more than 20 seconds without going down. I know coordinated survivors can just power through it but belive it or not, not every solo queue survivor performs like a SWF group on comms
again, fix the game without giving both sides crutch perks. Let's also give killers NOED as a default kit because survivors escape sometimes.
"WElL surVivorS hAVe SoMe PErKs THat Can Be cruTCH SomEtiMes So THat MeANS You'RE NEVEr aLLoWeD tO taLk abOut kiLLEr cRUTCHeS EveR" You're derailing. I'm not telling you to stop talking about OP survivor perks like you're trying to do to me. Have some basic ######### respect please and thank you.
I'm not even going to get much into this because of how off topic you are, but unbreakable, deadhard, and adrenaline are almost perfectly fine. BT and DS are abusable and should probably be looked at (BT enables ez farming while barely punishing a tunneling killer, jumping in a locker with DS should be looked at.
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[quote] "having a perk to "fix" the issue doesn't fix anything, it's only a bandage that causes as much harm as good (I.e stomping out non SWF/ coordinated survivor teams)"[/quote]
Precisely why I said, if you are going to address one you need to address the other. BUt the fact is, POP was added to the game due to gen speeds.
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@FlamingkittyUmad No, it's not relying on Pop to "do good", you often need it in order to actually put any pressure onto survivors.
A generic 70 IQ survivor can run you for a minute or two, that's one chase in which 2 or 3 gens can be completed.
You are then left with 1 survivor on his first hook, 3 gens popped, 2 left to go and you are in another chase that can last just as much, even if no one goes for the rescue, survivors can finish a game in less than 4 minutes.
Depending on which killer you actually use of course, but basically ALL killers can be run around for a quite good while besides Nurse and to some degree Spirit. If you do happen to do very well without any gen stopping perks, it's not YOU doing good, it is survivors doing extremely ######### bad, because it is survivors who dictate the tempo of the game.
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don't commit to a full chase at the start of the game, you should be pressuring people off gens and when someone makes a mistake (out of position or working on a gen while injured and they think you're chasing someone else)
and again, you can have perks that slow down gens, just make them take brain cells to use OR have counterplay. Ruin is a great perk if you use it right until it gets cleansed (survivors running around the map looking for a totem = less progress on gens btw). Pop gives the killer free regression instantly without any cooldown or counterplay
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you "baited" me into refuting your comments, good job. I knew I had to make a comment so people reading your reply wouldn't lose braincells but since you were only pretending to be stupid you sure pranked me good :^)
maybe you should quit watching "baby killer bullied by SWF group" comps and understand that not every group of survivors is going to do 5 gens in 5 seconds
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Whats crippling is when the survivors keeping getting downed, allowing them to use pop.
Best counter is to take as long as possible to get downed, so really this perk is muuch stronger on less skilled survivors.
But it also relies on the killer's ability to down the survivors, so the perk does almost nothing on less skilled killers.
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I'm not saying "a bubba popped my gen, and now I'm super salty and making a forum post about it", I'm trying to discuss how easy it is to turn an already one-sided match into a steamroll. Think about this perk on spirit with stridor and infectious fright. you can't "just don't get downed" against that, the only tool survivors have is to rush the gens, and you can't "just rush the gens" against a perk like this, it just doesn't work.
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At a minimum, due to how strong PGTW is, there should be a skillcheck like overcharge has. This had to be an oversight with high mobility killers.
It's busted on Freddy for sure. He milks it like sugar...
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So, you created a discussion so people will give their opinions, but you still keep your "i am right, you are wrong" mentality everytime a poor guy try to share his opinion.
You are like those guys that came to your door "asking" you to listen to them while they talk about religion and stuff (i don't have nothing against this, you believe in what you want, i don't want to upset people, it's just an example) and you say you are an atheist and they start cursing and trying to make you believe in what they believe.
A lot of people here gave you a lot of nice comments and opinions about your post, saying that pop is totally fine but you "NO, how dare you having other opinion? i am right because i said so"
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Cheryl asked the Entity why pop was so strong, the Entity said "you know what?" and gave her the power to deny pop.
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Dude, it isn't as unhealthy as ruin, because it is more consistent and it isn't even a huge regression. You do realise how fast generators go in the game right? Do you want to take away the best counter to it, which isn't even op. Also, I know you were the guy who suggested old Freddy needed a nerf, so I don't think you are being serious.
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and I saw right through it. you didn't even trick me with your comment, I really don't know what you hope to gain from this. you said something stupid, pointed out how low quality bait it was but tore it down anyways, and here you try trying to pull damage control. stop trying to hard to justify/ defend yourself, no one cares
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Nah. Pop is currently one of the most well-designed perks in the game. It rewards the Killer for playing well while also making it so Killers that don't play well don't get as much benefit out of it.
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There's a brand new Survivor perk that's wonderful for counting pop. Plus if you look at the time doing a chase/hitting a survivor twice/hooking them/moving and kicking to a generator takes, I think it's easily more time than it takes a single survivor with no toolbox to do 25% of a gen.
It can also only be used on a gen that isn't regressing. Knowing when it's the right time to tap/go back to a gen is a pop counter all its own.
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I think you forgot some things:
1) Pop can only be active if the killer hook someone, and sometimes it is hard;
2)We need to get in a gen after this, that a lot of times is harder than u think;
3)DO YOU KNOW HOW SURVIVOR Do GENS??? Dude i feel like playing need for speed, that ######### is so fast that i cant even see where it came from.
4) The Killer still need know what gen have most progress so it wont be lost;
5) The time you have to get in a gen is tiny, almost all the time i need to hook a survivor next to the gens if i want to use pop
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The day they nerf pop is the day you will see camper every single match i dont think you want those kind of game
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As a survivor main, Pop is not too strong. You know the killer has it when you see the orange sparks and if you are hooked away from a gen, it encourages the killer to leave the hook.
What sucks is when killers run thanataphobia + dying light + pop etc. and the gen speed is literally nil. Combos like that are what need to be nerfed. You pretty much can't play the game at that point.
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Nobody asked for your care, you asked for ours by making a thread :)
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you obviously dont play the game enough to know what you're saying
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Go tell that to behaviour about the Hex: Ruin changes.
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If you truly believe Pop is necessary or you'll lose, wouldn't you say there's a bigger problem at work here? Maybe gen times in general are too fast, and should be addressed more globally with something like the warmup phase that Scott Jund proposed. Maybe the rank and matchmaking systems aren't doing their job and you're getting paired with survivors who aren't your skill level. Maybe it's a mix of things. At any rate, there should never be one perk that is so strong that you can't win without it. That is a sign that the game isn't balanced and the perk is OP.
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Don't put us in a box, bro! Pop needs a nerf, but so do perks like DS and BT. I would give BT a cooldown so that unhooking multiple survivors at once wouldn't apply BT to all of them. I would also rework DS to make its timer completely pause during chases, reduce its active time overall, and make it deactivate if the perk holder starts doing objectives or if the killer hooks someone else. That way, the killer knows they don't need to worry about DS when they're not tunneling. As is, DS just gives survivors license to play extra aggressive and it's pretty unfair to killers.
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its likebive been saying these entitled survivors dont want killers to have anything strong. They are the only ones allowed strong things.
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Never said gen times werent a problem when survivors focus purely on gens, not wasting time on anything else - thats an impossible situation to win against as a killer.
All I said is that you need some form of an active gen stopping perk in the current version of dbd against competent survivors, I would prefer better system than that of scott's.
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Ah yes lets nerf perks that reward good gameplay :')
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There is a massive problem with your comparison. If you had said the survivors gets a free 5% progression per time they pallet stunned the killer with a perk then I would have said, wow thats really good and a better comparison. Because the biggest problem here is that you are trying to compare 1 survivor to 1 killer. And the game doesnt work like that. There is 4 survivors, by your logic if the survivors can save up and instantly get a gen done with no counterplay beyond death. But this is as I said 1v4 game, therefor the comparitive perks survivors have should be weaker or just do different things, if the survivor perks are stronger than the killers in a straight up 1v1 comparison then the survivors are never gonna lose a game. If those perks are meta perks ofc, which PGTW is and whatever you wanna call your made up survivor perk.
If you actually wanted to make a good survivor perk that is more comparative then it would be, when you safely unhook a survivor/take a protection hit then you have 60 seconds to get 10%(probably less but Ill throw you a bone) free progression on a generator. It would still be insanely good but its more limited to the actual thing that a survivor should do, help his team survive, and not limited by the amount of times you can throw a pallet. For a 25% gen progression I would happily let the killer hit me if I can pallet stun him. Thats insanely op.
PGTW is 25% gen regression which is 20 seconds + however much time is lost before survivors get back to the gen. How long does a chase usually last? If you can end a chase in 20 seconds then you were winning that game anyway and PGTW is only guaranteeing your domination of people you are clearly better than. But most chases I have are about 40 seconds - 1 minute long, some shorter some way longer (but I usually drop those and in those cases have lost even more time), 25% regression isnt giving me back in full in those cases its making sure I get proper rewarded for playing my role.
But thats just my oppinion, PGTW is strong but its not op.
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It's 100% bad design. I agree with changing its functionality, use, and whatever else is required to make it not the perk it is rn.
PLZ SEE TL;DR
People are so adamant in defending it because without it, it can often feel like killers have 0 ability to combat the pressure from survivors doing gens. The core mechanic and process of starting repairs should be addressed, but while perks like Pop exist, the devs can continue to ignore the issue because changing the core mechanic would make Pop immensely stronger than it is now. The same thing happened when Ruin was being changed. I detest the rework of Ruin, which instead of addressing the immediacy of the usage and giving it a token-based system off of hooks, gens done, etc. eviscerated the perk and made it rely on the most unfun aspect of generator repairs i.e. regression. Once Ruin no longer served its purpose, killers turned to Pop for their solution to a glaring issue being improperly addressed. The only caveat was that this new perk relied on killer action first before becoming active. That difference (a change that should have been made to old Ruin) made the developers happy for whatever reason. For many killers, the hook requirement made absolutely no difference especially after clamoring that the active timer be increased, and this was done so that Pop could more easily serve in place of old Ruin.
- TL;DR HERE The issue of gen completion speed/ gen repair initiation speed has not been addressed and Pop is Ruin by another name/mechanic. Many players who experience both sides do not bring up Pop as an issue (similar to Ruin's case) because they recognize the base mechanics of the game need special attention but are satisfied in using perks as bandages to staunch a festering wound. People who do bring it up are told to **** off.
The worst part about Pop is that if a survivor wants to avoid the usage of the perk, he/she needs to be much more aggressive in completing a gen, which contributes to the "genrush" and bad feelings of gens popping in a killer's face (if not prepared for the outcome). Pop inherently encourages survivor genrushing where Ruin did not. For survivors who aren't streamers and just want to play the game for the atmosphere, repeatedly being forced to complete the same part of progress on a generator over and over again is not any part of the horror experience and forces the survivor to think about how to be most efficient rather than allowing the survivor to enjoy the experience, which is the same thing that killers face in every game. Pushing the problem from one role onto the other role when there are many players on both sides who dislike the problem is a terrible way to do game balance. While I enjoy the confetti from the new flashlight, the secrets on the new map, and the care it appears the asset developers are putting into their assets, it appears to me that core game balance changes on the level that are necessary are not currently on the developers' minds. Additionally, the effort that the developers for props and sounds are putting into the maps such as the humming around the statues on that second map in the awful Yamaoka realm and the intricate detail on the floor and corners of various, small structures are being completely ignored because of how often survivors are focused on doing gens and being in chase. The developers seem content with their atmosphere going to waste. People who might want to enjoy it are too focused on the frustrations caused by latency, poor collision, gen issues, bad animation/visual information, and heaps of bugs, many of which relate to the fact that the game does not support a three dimensional sound map, or really anything three dimensional other than props (why couldn't the nurse project a sphere instead of a circle? That would have prevented the unnecessary, but extremely consequential buffs to her in The Pig's patch. That change was the sole cause of the increase of power in the Omega blink and the subsequent nerfs that made the Nurse a species that doesn't exist anymore--I've only seen four Nurses since the changes, and they've all gotten 0 kills except for one who found a meg that was particularly awful, on Lery's no less.). I want to be able to enjoy the game, and many other players are just waiting for some change to happen to give them more of a challenge and less frustration (those are the ones who have to do cards on streams for lack of mechanics attention and care the game is apparently receiving). When people see one of their lifelines for dealing with all of the lack of core game balance come under attack for being ****** design, those players are going to react viscerally and make judgements based on their feelings, often not thinking about the need for the underlying issue to change and that Pop's ****** design enables the problem. This kind of analysis shouldn't be my job or any other player's job, but this kind of post doesn't seem to be coming out of any DbD representative's mouth, so it became important for someone to say it.
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the Same thing was said about ruin and now it sucks so no thanks
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Until the current gen rush meta is nerfed, they simply CANNOT and SHOULD NOT nerf PGTW. It's one of the strongest perks and without it a lot of killers would simply lose due to the current meta. Gen speed is fast and just because one gen got popped/is being camped heavily does not mean you can pressure other gens. This is coming from someone who plays both sides, mainly survivor. PGTW is probably one of the most balanced perks in the game and simply levels the playing field.
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Thank You same thing happened with ruin
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you...did not read the rest of my post? I absolutely hate the current Ruin and was pushing for it not to be changed in the way the devs were going to change it. I hate the new Ruin for the same reasons I hate Pop.
I guess Ruin needed changes? But it would have been better to just make it a chance for skill checks to be "Ruin" (with greats suffering -2%) and have that chance increase as the number of generators completed. Not the best solution, but it is a solution, and it is far better than what we have now.
**** Pop, **** new Ruin, and **** new tier one Devour Hope.
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"Genrush" is a real issue, and Pop only disguises it so that people stop clamoring about it. It's a distraction from the real problem, and that's why it needs to go. The gen problem, for both high and low ranks in all of their differences, needs to be dealt with at its core and NOT through perks.
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This is why I feel Scorpionz is one of the best streamers around. Consistently gets 4ks as pig main (and perkless nurse/spirit), without using crap perks such as pop, who’s only effect is to reward bad killers while not teaching them at all how to properly pressure a map, but only relying on slow downs and perks who’s only effect is to massively forgive mistakes on the killer’s side.
Him alone shows how 99% of the killer mains in this forum are just terrible players upset by their own bad gameplay who just want the 4K to be handed to them on a silver plate without putting any effort at improving. “But sfw, ds and blabla” and “gen rush meta” what am I even reading lmaoooo just get good ffs.
Pop IS the most broken perk in the game. It’s actually insane how survivors complain about noed when pop effectively reverses their progress while already being pressured by the hook, and it definitely needs a nerf. If pop didn’t exist, the game would be much more healthy. 25% regression please give me a break
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I really don't understand where those weird "OMG PERK X IS OP BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING IT"-Threads are coming from.
PGTW is definetely balanced imo, because it rewards the killer with good gameplay and punishes survivors who played bad. It's simple as that.
There are some simple things to do as survivor and you will never have troubles with pop:
- Don't brainlessly repair the first gens you see. Always try to atleast repair one or two gens in the middle part of the map.
- If a gen is popped (Easy to see- It has red/orange sparks) and someone gets downed, don't start repairing it. Do a different gen and go back to it later.
- Split the gen pressure. If you need to repair one last generator then repair two or maybe three gens instead of just one. He can just prevent one gen, not all of them.
It's easy and simple as that. Pop doesn't need a nerf, nor does Spine Chill need one. Perks like DS need a change, but who am I to judge and decide that, right?
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running to a gen after a hook is not "good gameplay" it's the absolute most basic thing a killer can do. the perk doesn't incentive a different play style it literally gives a massive reward for doing what a killer would naturally be doing already. the fact that this reward can be infinitely tapped is a huge concern.
You know how multiple survivors working on a gen causes an efficiency penalty? Pop not having a cooldown would be like that penalty not existing. In an alternate universe, this forum is majorly biased against killers, and in that alternate universe people just like you are complaining about the efficiency penalty. "Why should survivors be punished for working together". It's not an exact comparison btw, I can already see the comments: It's a metaphor.
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pop is the only thing in the game that gives purpose to kicking gens. as it stands it takes somewhere around 300 seconds for a gen to regress from 99% to 0% which is pitiful. If they nerf pop then gen regression speeds need to be increased, Regardless, corrupt intervention is a better perk anyway.
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It rewards good gameplay (Killing survivor). Didn't know I had to explain that lol. If you as a survivor suck at looping, sucks to suck. Then go stealth or maybe try something new.
U only get an effect of 25% regression on one gen. Splitting up as survivors is ALWAYS the best decision. And you can work on a gen together, but It's not the smartest idea. Going against Pop means to NOT do the first gen u see, split up, finsish the bad gens first so you have the best distance between gens. Pop is not a free card to win. It just gives the killer as much room as the survivor allows him.
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if a survivor is being hooked/ killed, the killer is already gaining an advantage. Imagine thinking survivors should be rewarded with faster repair speeds for finishing a gen, or the efficiency penalty shouldn't apply for multiple survivors on one get? Yeah you're on that level.
Also the devs have been nerfing stealth and loops for the past several updates, so it sucks that you clearly haven't even been playing lately to have the slightest clue of what's going on in the game. killers get more and more anti stealth perks with every new killer, and pallets are still broken as hell, and they still haven't done anything about deadzones, so it's hard to understand how someone could suggest "just use stealth" and not be very inexperienced in the game
Also nobody said pop was a free win, but it still needs some sort of limit to it. 60 seconds is such a long time, and that "perk" that's supposed to counter pop by locker down the gen is a complete joke. spreading out isn't a good counter either because that 25% regression turns into a 45% progress reduction if nobody is there to touch the gen after you're chased off it
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I am playing pretty active the game as a survivor with over 4k experience, thanks but I really do know what's going on. Im not here to discuss on your emotional level, but killers have to pressure survivors consantly. When he is hooking someone, 3 or two survivors are doing generators. And he can just pressure one of them. Its easy to understand and that is already enough limit for the perk.
It's not an absurd logic, its a fact that Pop is pretty strong but not OP.
People already enough what u can do against it. You are not here for tips or different opinions. You are just here to talk every other opinion down and ignoring facts. Have a great day in the fog buddy.
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