Reasonable Pyramid Head Nerf
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Fact
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I think it would be more reasonable just to make the second chance perks work with the cage. It's no different from a hook in every other way but that. I think that's the easiest solution. Not being able to see the cage seems more unfair to me. It already spawns as far away from the killer as possible sometimes,and usually very close to survivors. Then by the time you find them again,they could be fully healed and/or have a gen done. If you could even find them again, and they don't just go back to Urban evading across the map lol. People that play a certain way are going to play a certain way. These are the same guys that are probably going to camp the hook or tunnel you off, whatever. I'm not sure anything is going to change that. If you don't step in the stuff he can't use the cage anyway.
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- People always find a reason to complain when an actually balanced killer comes out
- Survivors can easily avoid the trenches by crouching
- If you see PH leave a trail at a loop while he’s chasing you then just leave the area to avoid getting tormented and downed
- The cages are just like hooks but negate usage of hook perks(I would like to see only perks like BT and Off the Record work with cages, not all hook perks though).
- Theres a reason why they’re cages. They’re meant to slow down the game, let you get back to chasing someone else if you down one person and there’s a second person nearby, and get you points for using your power.
- If you don’t like getting moried after being downed while Tormented, once again, avoid the trenches when you can and you won’t get moried. Either way, you have to die eventually in some matches. And if you complain about Final Judgement then it isn’t the devs or the killer’s fault for you getting to struggle phase during a match while tormented.
- While the cages are good, I would like it so that they don’t transfer their sacrifice progress to hooks and vice versa.
And that’s the end of my rant. If you want to obliterate me for what I said, then by all means, go right on ahead. I don’t have anything to lose
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I think pyramid head is perfect how he is
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The only thing wrong with the cage is that you can't yeet yourself out of it.
The fact that PH doesn't get a notification when someone is pulled out of a cage is a significant negative to the triangle man.
Those are the only 2 changes the cage needs.
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I mean... it is a cage that doesn’t have a lock or key on it. The Entity just opens it when you’re getting rescued. As for the notification, only way to know if someone is freed is if they icon no longer has the cage icon. But yeah, you should get some attempts to free yourself and a notification if a caged survivor is rescued
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DS never affected me. I'm a killer main and I've never had an issue with it.
Only bad killers complain about DS.
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Man, you survivor mains really can't play the game, can you? Tunneling isn't an efficient strat, therefore most killers don't do it. Plus, since cages tend to spawn away from the killer, it's actually easier to get saves from cages than from hooks, since most SWF try to play efficient and stay far away from the killer. Instead of calling for a nerf, get good first.
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Well, I many time was experiencing tunnel in a cage, like, I get caged, and when I got released, I got get down straight away, so yeah...
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Personally, tunneling isn't that common in my games. The problem is that when it happens its possibly the worst experience a Survivor can have in the game.
Literally spending the entire game with the Killer up your butt and having no chance to do anything else. Especially when you're injured and don't even get to have full length chases just sucks really hard. When Survivors see someone else getting tunneled, we automatically start to feel sympathy for them and try to bodyblock and draw attention away.
So the basic answer to your question is: no tunneling isn't overly common, but being tunneled is the worst experience in the game so when it happens to you, you'll probably be pissed off at the game for the next hours or even the next day
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Every time a fun and balanced killer comes out survivor mains have to complain. I swear man why do you guys think that gen rushing and all the meta perks arent a problem? You all just want to make the game as survivor sided as possible. Get good at the game, try doing some brainwork besides pressing m1.
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Can you stop bringing bt and ds to the table ? We dont want them 5o work with these cages, learn to crouch.
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'Hooks are fine but not cages' are you that entitled? Do you hear yourself? LMAO
The pig sees her boxes too so?
Just another nerf suggestion so survivors get adventages. People are crying about their ds but what about hex perks that are literally disabled when cleansing its totem? Stop being such a hypocrite.
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If anything, he needs a buff.
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Make it so theres other ways to get rid of torment instead of unhooking someome from a cage cause most ph players save it till death hook for that easy mori
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I mean only reason to ask for such a change or to believe that current DS is fine is because you use DS every game and probably abuse it to the max. DS was invented disincentive the killer from proxy camping hooks and relying on 1 shot players out of position. This is precisely why your allowed to jump into lockers to avoid tunneling and reposition yourself to better loops. These cages teleport you on the other side of the map and if a player saves you from cage instantly and pyramid decides to chase you, your just getting chased at that point and the killer is rightfully doing his best to win the match. I kinda wish this hooking mechanic was base line for every killer and that these silly band aid meta perks such as BT and DS weren't a thing.
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I don't understand the arguement here, you have killers defending the cage aura whilst saying they don't tunnel with him, if you don't tunnel with him what's the difference between seeing the aura or not?
The only people worried about the cage aura are the ones that are tunneling, no?
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The Devs said that Camping and Tunneling was just a tactic why should they nerf him because of tunneling. I mean every killer can tunnel because its easier for Pyramid head doesn't mean his players should be punished for it. I think he is fine the way it is. I play survivor and I don't care if I get tunneled or camped because its a part of the game.
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I'm. A. Killer. Main.
Hi. I'm. A Killer. Main.
Again?
I'm. A. Killer. Main.
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B- But- Your name-
You got me fooled 😥
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Yeah, I'm a Meg main, not a survivor main.
I have a big brain, but I'm a killer main.
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We stan Meg Mains
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Leatherface being leatherface is a nerf as is. That’s why I always see people run Micheal perks on him.
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That’s a somewhat good idea. His cages aura should always be revealed to him. And then a sound notification of someone being rescued. Meaning he could always end up at the wrong one. It’s a chance game at best.
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Man, Scottjund, Marth, Otz.
All such bad killers.
If you've never been affected by DS then that means your pressure is weak. Because DS WILL affect you if you stomp the hell out of people and down multiple ppl within a minute.
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Honestly if I cage someone with Pyramid Head I just continue to pressure the remaining survivors and eventually go over to see who rescued the caged person so I can get another chase. I always thought the idea of tunneling with him was overpowered, but he honestly doesn't need to. I know there are some that will abuse his kit though.
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Because there is no need to nerf a B-Tier killer in the first place or whats next? Should we nerf freddy, spirit or billy?
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Removing his possibility to see cages they won't stop tunneling. It will stop when survivors will stop being toxic or tryharders, so never. Just to make it clear, tunneling doesn't depend on devs and most of the times it doesn't depend on the killer. I know some people tunnel just for fun, but there are some people that don't want but they have to, to deal with extreme gen rushing and toxic survivors.
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This would negate any reason at all to try to avoid his torment trails and essentially make them useless and him even worse than he is. Don't think it's a good idea.
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Have you seen how his power works? He literally already has a 3 second CD.
So there's anywhere between 1-3 other survivors in a game, and not one of them is closer to the cage than the killer is? Tunnelling exists on PH because everyone keeps treating cages like hooks. If I play PH I *know* that if I go to the cage, I'll probably find at least one other survivor there. Unhook the dude and begone before PH gets there and now he has less map pressure than if he simply hooked.
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I honestly think this was the most genius introduction to the game the devs have ever done. Survivors: I'm so sick of every killer running pop, bbq, sloppy, blah. Killers: I'm so sick of every survivor running BT, DS, unbreakable, blah. So they make a killer that these perks are much less appealing to or negated by. I love it.
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I honestly am not seeing any of this "tunneling" from cages everyone else is. This makes me think it's players playing badly and calling it tunneling when it's not. The killer has to literally cross the entire map before a teammate saves.
That said, remove the auras and it doesn't really change much. PH still needs the recovery time on his ranged attack lowered and to apply Torment to its hits to reward good plays. Currently using the ranged attack in most cases just doesn't feel worth and all you really do is fake it, which isn't fun.
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Can we stop with the main stuff nonesense and do a constructive argument for once? Or are you going to call names about how entitled you are?
Pyramid Head is not that strong but, not being able to see where the cages are wouldn't be a "punishment" or a nerf, I mean when I send someone to cages I keep patrolling like normally, stop saying that OP is an entitled survivor main when actually it doesn't affect at all.
"It does give you map awareness" , no it doesn't, because you're not going to the cage area because tunneling is not efficient right? You don't receive a notification so you don't know at all if the caged survivor has been rescued, unless you see the cage aura and proceed to tunnel indeed.
"But you will know where the survivor are going to go", no because tons of survivors are selfish so you won't know at all if they are going to be there or not.
"Bro, the cages spawns at the other side of the map, tunneling recquires to waste tons of time" , that's wrong, there where times in the new map where I spawned in the stairs and pyramid head appears like less than five seconds later. Besides... What's kind of point is that? It's like answering to a post who says "camping is not fun", and you say" camping is not rewarding in BP gain and you will depip"... So? What's the point you're trying to make? That's derailing the thread.
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Well, there's no guarantee that the other survivors will be closer. It's not like PH sends someone to a cage from clear across the map Everytime. Often, he is somewhere towards the center (or anywhere that literally isn't nearby a wall) and doesn't have much of a distance to cover before reaching said caged survivor.
I've been able to apply pressure on the map using PH with no problem after sending someone to a cage WITHOUT tunneling.
Either way, if you have rely on tunneling with PH you're trash.
Tunneling to kill survivors ASAP will only get you less BP anyways, so it's really a waste.
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Naw, this happens alot. I played two streamers specifically that were happy that they did it. One specifically said "This is how he is meant to played, get over it"... This dude had 500 viewers at the time. His torment only ever wears off if you are caged and if you save someone out of a cage with torment on. His torment has no wear off condition other than those. Its already BS. If you are having problems getting people in torment, just but it through a pallet or window. Its super freaking easy to get people into torment.
Yes his ranged attack is complicated to hit, but I've been playing him for almost a week now perkless, I've gotten pretty good at hitting those ranged attacks.
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If you make a killer that basically counters all survivors perks meant to prevent camping and tunneling you are going to have people abuse it. I get that the Devs said that Camping and Tunneling are legit strats, but am highly disappointed in them for making a killer that basically encourages it.
Honesty, I don't see why he needs to see the cages, but then again, I am also a person that believes the pig shouldn't be able to see her boxes. To be being able to see the cages just encourages tunneling/camping nothing else. Some people say, it helps them know where other survivors are, but you still get this information without the need to see cages auras. Remember you get an icon in the bottom left of your screen and you know the cage spawns as far away as possible.
As for the argument, Cages are basically free unhooks as a reason for not including this feature is BS. Because Cages are also free hooks in the first place. Unlike picking up a survivor where other survivors can prevent the hooks (flashlights, stuns, taking hits and break hooks) cages have 0 counter play to them. Under pallet, cage them, flashlight near by, cage them, no hooks near by, cage them.
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So from me telling you it doesn't happen often, you immediately just give me 2 anecdotal scenarios that happened to you. That doesn't show anything.
Torment also is only removed from saving at a cage or being caged because the effect literally does nothing to you. All it does is save the killer some hook time.
Yes it counters survivors hook perks and it also counters all the meta killer hook perks.
"If you make a killer that basically counters all survivors perks meant to prevent camping and tunneling you are going to have people abuse it."
I haven't seen this abuse you're referring to. Nothing more than any normal match against other killers.
"Honesty, I don't see why he needs to see the cages, but then again, I am also a person that believes the pig shouldn't be able to see her boxes."
I don't think survivors should see the boxes until the trap is armed.
"Some people say, it helps them know where other survivors are, but you still get this information without the need to see cages auras. Remember you get an icon in the bottom left of your screen and you know the cage spawns as far away as possible."
I'm fine with having the aura removed from the killers sight, I just don't think it would do much. The killer also needs other buffs though.
"As for the argument, Cages are basically free unhooks as a reason for not including this feature is BS. Because Cages are also free hooks in the first place."
That argument doesn't make sense at all. They are not free hooks....you literally had to get downed for you to be caged. There's nothing "free" about that at all.
"Unlike picking up a survivor where other survivors can prevent the hooks (flashlights, stuns, taking hits and break hooks) cages have 0 counter play to them. Under pallet, cage them, flashlight near by, cage them, no hooks near by, cage them."
That is very, very rarely happening unless the killer is playing really dumb or we are talking about low ranks that don't know what they're doing.
Your counter was not getting downed in the first place and you act like you are getting some excessive punishment for being sent to the cage...it's literally just a hook...that your team can get a free save on you instantly.
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I think his ranged attack is fine as it is. For an ability bypassing all obstacles in the way (besides gaps) it needs to have heafty CD otherwise he would need reduction in MM to 110%.
Also it shouldn't apply Torment since becoming tormented should stay as willing decision by survivors, you are either confident in looping him and thus you ignore his lava and don't care about loss of hook perks you use or you suck at looping and decide to evade lava even at cost of getting downed just so you can use your hook perks.
I think devs nailed the balance of PH and nothing at all should change. He's a great 115% killer with well balanced ability.
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"I think his ranged attack is fine as it is. For an ability bypassing all obstacles in the way (besides gaps) it needs to have heafty CD otherwise he would need reduction in MM to 110%."
It bypasses all obstacles because it's extremely easy to dodge. It doesn't need a hefty could down because of that reason.
"Also it shouldn't apply Torment since becoming tormented should stay as willing decision by survivors, you are either confident in looping him and thus you ignore his lava and don't care about loss of hook perks you use or you suck at looping and decide to evade lava even at cost of getting downed just so you can use your hook perks."
Whether he gets to use his power or not should be up to the survivors? Lol no. That is terrible design. Attaching Torment to his ranged attack only matters if the survivors fails to dodge it.
"I think devs nailed the balance of PH and nothing at all should change. He's a great 115% killer with well balanced ability."
I think he's quite weak and doesn't have much of a chance against "good" rank 1 survivors.
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I really don't see this being a bad thing, the best way to use his power is to leave your trails in chase and around hooks, making survivors run through it essentially, and using it to avoid decisive or a flashlight or body blockers. The only thing the aura reading was useful for was for the killer to go straight to the cage and go right back for that survivor, which has pretty much been my only survivor experience with the killer, and it honestly just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the killer which sucks.. He's from one of my horror franchises and is really fun to go against and play as, but the second there's a flaw in the system, people are gonna abuse it and that is exactly what is happening with him. Just be happy they aren't giving survivors borrowed or ds from the cages, this is probably the best they can do to try and stop an abusable mechanic without just having ds and borrowed activate when getting saved from one. You're probably only gonna use the cages a few times in a match anyway until you can just kill them. The only use I've found for seeing the cages' auras is to go "haha funny man in cage" Or to go to the cage when they get rescued and I have absolutely nothing else to do, which only normally happens against bad survivors which you'll usually dominate anyway. And for the people saying to just save them before the killer gets there first, that's easier said than done, I think out of my entire experience against the killer I've only had a cage spawn so close that the killer didn't have time to come back to the cage before we had scurried off probably like one time.
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It's not exactly easy to dodge as it is mindgameable, if you predict when & where survivor attempts to evade it you can make them walk into it. If it's aimed directly on you by the center it will hit you unless you're already dodging so predicting where he's using it is essencial to dodging. People like to say that some abilities are easy to dodge when it really boils down to which side made better prediction.
Actually, it's a great design because if they don't want to get tormented ever basically means that for that specific survior your lava actually does damage (since they'll rather take damage from you then getting tormented) like your ranged attack would do. They won't step into it even if it meant getting downed = lava's effect is so dangerous for them that they'll get downed insted of taking torment, in other words lava gives you extremely free hits thus even if it doesn't give you torment on them, it has (debatebly) even stronger effect. That's a great design imao. Also survivor's complains about cages disabling their perks are invalid since they made a decison to step into lava, no one forced them, if they want their perks they need to evade lava at any cost and if they don't care, then they get punished via not having hook perks.
People keep on saying that. I've been hearing that about Deathslinger since he was released how unviable he is, yet I'm doing extemely well with him on rank 1 and if I play really well I can beat even the super sweaty SWF death squads. PH's power has pretty high potencial just like DS so calling him weak without mastering his ability is like calling nurse weak because most players can't do consistent great blinks.
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That might work but I find it's difficult to get someone tormented in the first place. Unless I leave a lot of trails everywhere or were looping the same structure. They usually don't get tormented during a chase.
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Couldn't agree with this statement more as long as somebody has something that can be up be abused they will do it.
People who use decisive strike as a free way to pop generators, risky hook saves or anything like that something they would normally not do otherwise because they would be severely punished for such a stupid decision.
Some abuse no one escapes death as a free to camp and possibly get two free kills then use no one escapes death to clean off the rest.
If there is very little you can actually without severely crippling powers and perks to prevent people from abusing it even then I'm pretty sure there's someone out there who will find a workaround to abuse it
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If im caged its my fault for touching the huge bulging trench i could have walked around
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I dont get why killers arent allowed to have fun. No fun abilities, no quality of life, not allowed to kill, every change thats suggested makes this killer less fun.
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Not trying to sound like one those people who corrects other to look or sound Smart, but PH leaves trenches, not lava :3
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Please learn how to use the forums, they have a quoting system that would make you're replies much easier to respond to. Secondly, the first section was a response to you, everything after the "---" was meant as a general reply to this thread. Though I could have made this more clear.
So from me telling you it doesn't happen often, you immediately just give me 2 anecdotal scenarios that happened to you. That doesn't show anything.
I was listing off just two instances of streamers doing this, not how many times this happened. My exact quote was
Naw, this happens alot. I played two streamers specifically that were happy that they did it.
I was trying to imply this happened a lot, but I specifically had two streamers that supported and promoted this playstyle. Once again, I see where I could have been more clear. But this was relatively implied by the format of the sentence.
Yes it counters survivors hook perks and it also counters all the meta killer hook perks.
This is a bad argument, because as the killer you can choose not to run hook related perks because you know you are playing Triangle Head. However the survivors have no idea who you are playing and can't switch their perks out to make up for this. So yes even though it counters all hook related perks, only one side knows this until the match starts. To be clear, I don't care if perks work or don't work on cages. My point is brushing torment off as some weak ability because perks don't work on it isn't a valid argument because only one side knows that before the match starts and can change their perks to make up for that ability.
I haven't seen this abuse you're referring to. Nothing more than any normal match against other killers.
I am actually just going to quote you here: So from me telling you it doesn't happen often ... That doesn't show anything.
I'm fine with having the aura removed from the killers sight, I just don't think it would do much. The killer also needs other buffs though.
He has a ranged attack that can be faked to close distance, he counters all survivor hook related perks and can counter any chance the survivor has to rescue a carried survivor by using his cages. He is a pretty strong killer. Oh yeah and his ability can give him map awareness. I've been playing him for the last week in red ranks perkless and doing just fine. I would say if I had to rate him, I would say he is a B tier killer due to his lack of map pressure. I would say the closest thing that would need buffed is how easy it is to dodge his ranged attack, but given that it goes through things and its a sword in the ground, I kinda understand its limited turn radius.
That argument doesn't make sense at all. They are not free hooks....you literally had to get downed for you to be caged. There's nothing "free" about that at all.
you broke this apart, it was a statement as a whole
As for the argument, Cages are basically free unhooks as a reason for not including this feature is BS. Because Cages are also free hooks in the first place. Unlike picking up a survivor where other survivors can prevent the hooks (flashlights, stuns, taking hits and break hooks) cages have 0 counter play to them. Under pallet, cage them, flashlight near by, cage them, no hooks near by, cage them.
That is very, very rarely happening unless the killer is playing really dumb or we are talking about low ranks that don't know what they're doing.
Ummm... then you are playing him wrong. literally all you do, is place his torment crap under a pallet or by the window. Than all loops became unsafe or require people to run from them because if they stay in that loop they will get the torment status. Then guess what, free uncounterable hook state for you. Also once again, just going to quote you: So from me telling you it doesn't happen often ... That doesn't show anything.
So thanks for that beautiful quote, its been so useful.
Your counter was not getting downed in the first place and you act like you are getting some excessive punishment for being sent to the cage...it's literally just a hook...that your team can get a free save on you instantly.
I have no idea what your talking about here. I am not saying the cage system is bad, I am saying it allows the killer to easily camp and tunnel. Which yes is a valid strat according to the devs. However, I am disappointed that they made a killer that encourages this via his power.
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I'm fully aware but devs decided to call SH chapter "lava chapter" internally and I like the sound of it so I just call his trenches lava 😉
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Killers should get more points with the cages. I mean I never put them into them if they're in the status ill wait and tkill them
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Alright lemme stop you right there buddy, anyone that thinks ds is broken is stupid, they nerfed it to hell since you know it can only be used once a game.
If you look at a broken perk go look at devour hope, sure its a hex perk but those can be easily camped or managed with thrill of the hunt and with smaller maps and reduced pallets the game already went to #########.
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I don't tunnel the caged person, but the aura is good to know where 2 survivors are going to be once they get saved and help guess their next move, such as which gen they might go to or the path they might take if you want to try and cut one of them off. If this is going to be changed he should get an aura reading on the survivors when they get rescued, or something similar.
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