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A 600 BP Survival score event for all living survivors in the trial when a generator is completed.
Hi, forum lurker here.
One of the more common complaints I read about here is how survivors make less BPs overall in trials than Killers. Specifically the Survival seems to be tricky to max out. So, how do I think we can somewhat alleviate that problem?
Grant all living survivors in the trial 600 Bloodpoints in the Survival category when a generator is completed. This is, in my mind, regardless of if they worked on the generator completed.
Why 600? Well, there's 5 generators, and there's the 5k score event granted when leaving the trial through the gates. If the survivor is not the obsession, that's it. 5K. If there were to be a 600 BP score event for any gen completion (3k total), that would amount to 8k total in the Survival category, maxing it out. This would make sense, as the Survivor, well, "Survived" the trial.
Moreover, Survivors that don't make it out are still rewarded for staying alive for as long as they did.
The only issue I see with this is that it makes the "Obsession Escaped" score event redundant, as that would only be granted when the obsession has already maxed out that category. (EDIT: Then again, when escaping through the hatch as the obsession you typically don't get the full 8k from all gens and the escape anyway)
Comments
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It's not a problem, it's by design.
You are playing an asymmetric 1v4 game. When you escape, you should be getting just as much as the killer, if it was a balanced non-depip game for the survivors who escaped and if everyone escaped, then you would be getting more than the killer.
What's the incentive to play killer? good survivors just bully the living hell out of you, regardless of the skill level the killer has - take the group FunGoose runs with..they would bully any killer out there, be it Otz, Scorpionz, etc. SWF groups already farm way faster and better than a killer can, just by virtue of faster queues. Survivors also have WGLF to match BBQ&Chilli though granted it's harder to get stacks from since a competent SWF gets the job done way before the counter can get to max but still.
If anything, the game needs a boost to killer BP gain or perhaps IRI shard gain, in order to incentivize more killers to play which would lead to faster queues for everyone and a better matchmaking system. The game currently keeps killer players on life support, just barely enough to keep them playing (though more and more are either playing survivor nowadays or straight up quitting/ taking a break due to the questionable balance decisions lately).
So, no..survivors don't need MORE bloodpoints for doing gens. They need a limit on the amount of exhaustion perks a SWF can bring into a trial, they need a limit on the amount of items a SWF can bring into the trial, they need to be locked in just like the killer is before a trail starts and things like DS and Unbreakable need a revision and a nerf since jumping into a locker and then DSing the killer should not count as the killer "tunneling" you (etc, etc).
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Unless I am missing something, I don't see how your arguments regarding the game's balance is related to how many BPs survivors gain in a trial. My suggestion has literally 0 influence on the balance of the trial itself, it simply reduces the grind of the bloodweb, so that survivor mains and 'mixed' players can have a relatively similar BP flow as they would when playing killer, which, in my opinion, is how it should be.
"When you escape, you should be getting just as much as the killer, if it was a balanced non-depip game for the survivors who escaped and if everyone escaped, then you would be getting more than the killer."
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. But by that logic, if you don't increase survivors' BP gain, you'd need to REDUCE a good killer's BP gain if you want to achieve that. That's a no-no from me.
I just want to see a relatively equal BP economy, where survivors that escape the trial (through the gate) should see a roughly equal amount of BP to the killer that played well. If survivors get more BPs in the long haul because of faster queues, then sobeit. They have more perks, items and add-ons to burn anyway.
To give a hypothetical example, let's say none of the survivors make it out, but there was only 1 gen left to do. That means 4 gens were done, which means they would've gained 2400 BPs simply because they managed to stay alive for that long. That's already 2400 points in a category that would be practically empty with how it is now. On its own, it's not a lot. But combined with the things they (should) do in the trial already, that would still amount to a decent amount of points. Not to mention the "Obsession Dead" score event, which is another 1k.
Another scenario is the hatch. With the exception of the use of keys, only 1 survivor gets to use it, max. that's 5K in the Survival category and 2.5k in the Objectives category. Chances are that not all the generators were complete when the hatch spawns, which means that they wouldn't have the full 3k in Survival, i.e., not have the full 8k when escaping through the hatch, while still gaining BP for the things they did in the trial.
I get that it sometimes may be hard to find an incentive to play as the other side (be it survivor switches to killer or vice versa). But that issue is a different topic entirely. I do believe that would be resolved by implementing a multiplier for BPs (say, 1.2x) to incentivise playing the less played role. But, again, that's not what this topic was about.
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If they wanted to incentivize playing killer by more BPs I would prefer them just put an actual visible boost on the homescreen. Something like, "Expected survivor queue time: 3-5 minutes. Expected killer queue time: 10 seconds. 50% bonus killer bloodpoints are in effect."
That way they can also shift the balance to incentivize people to play survivor if needed.
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I'm glad BHVR is considering bonus BPs to help with queues. Fingers crossed they actually do it. I need so much points...
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Not gonna lie I'm not immediately against this. Nice incentive to rush gens while the killer is tunneling or camping a survivor.
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I think a better thing would be 250 survival/gen complete that there's still 1500 survival points to gain from other factors so they can add some other survival score events. For exmaple I think if you avoid getting hit by the killer or their power, you should some survival points. For example if the killer swings and almost hits you, but whiffs (either because of a spin or vault/pallet drop) you should get 100 points. Currently you get 100 survival points for a near miss from a death slinger shot, I think they should expand hte range of hte near-miss zone and also port this score event to other killers power. For example if a billy chainsaw sprints close to you but doesn't actually hit you, that could give a bit of survival. Or you dodge a huntress hatchet but it came pretty close, that could give a bit of survival. Same could apply to blink hits for nurse and phase lunges from spirit, as well as attacks that are from out of cloak against a wraith. Rarer miss types give more score. So a huntress miss might be less like 50 or so, since they tend use their power a lot more and have a lot more misses, compared to just whiffing an m1, since that happens a lot less.
Basically avoiding the killers hits/power should give a bit of survival.
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Hell, I would even say make it so a regular survival is 8k, instead of 5k, and make it so hatch escapes/key escapes are worth way less. Getting out through the exit gates is way harder than just taking hatch, especially with a key, and regular escapes should be rewarded more than hatch escapes.
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Survivor is in a 4 man team, while the killer is alone. This means the survivor efforts are split between all the four members, while the killer has to do everything. If the effort is split up, so should the rewards. This is a fair design.
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While I do agree that it's fair from a Killer vs Survivor perspective, I don't think it's fair from a player vs player perspective. The winning player(s) should earn more than the losing player(s), regardless of role.
If certain team members contributed less towards the victory of their team, then their score at the end should reflect that. Currently, that is the case (and if not, it should be). Whether that would be through occupying the killer to allow gens to be completed, or doing the gens, totems, what have you. If, in the end, all you did is survive, then your score should reflect that with a mere 8k, as opposed to 15k+ from your teammates.
Either way, I'm trying to alleviate the inequality between overall BP gain from a player to player basis. A killer played well but still got no kills will still receive roughly 25k in my experience, whereas a survivor that played well but didn't survive AND wasn't the obsession will practically miss out on a whole category, leaving them with ~20k max. A winning survivor on the other hand gets roughly 25k as well.
This, I like. Both of your ideas seem really great to me. I thought of 600 as that rounded up nicely to 8k when escaping, but making it less than that still allows for other unique events to happen during the trial and not be redundant upon escaping. I hadn't thought of that.
As for granting Survival points for dodging killer attacks, I like the idea, but I'm not sure whether it doesn't fit in the boldness category more.
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