Remember guys, NOED is for bad killers...
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Are people really still complaining about BT? Which is literally 15 seconds, which isn't even a quarter of the time that DS is active. Everyone's like "If DS lasted less time, it'd be fine!" then groan about freaking Borrowed Time which only lasts 15 seconds.
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It's clear you didn't even READ the post you quoted lmao.
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Most of those are counterable by your own gameplay. Don't want someone to use Unbreakable? Maybe don't slug them and leave them there. As someone who's been left to die bleeding on the ground... I'd be happy if Unbreakable was straight up available to everyone 100% of the time. Cause otherwise it sucks. (Like, at 1% if you haven't been picked up and have healed to Need Help, you can get up. It SUCKS dying on the ground after being abandoned.)
DS? Just don't tunnel. Not that hard. There's arguments about having it auto-deactivate if the killer hooks someone else which seem reasonable.
BT? Maybe don't camp? I mean, you're taking a gamble on who you hit being able to shrug it off. It's straight up not the end of the world.
Dead Hard? Y'know it's amazing how many killers seem to want the survivors to just stand there and die. Like, the same people will whine and moan that 'all survivors want to do is hold M1 and then leave' and then cry about how 'the survivor hit a button to undo their mistake! Totally skillful gameplay!' like... Make up your mind. Half the time it doesn't work because of server issues.
Insta-downs in generally just... aren't really fun? For the same reason as issues with Unbreakable. It's not fun gameplay to lay there and rely on someone else to pick you up. Especially if you have selfish/ignorant teammates, or a killer who's just slugging everyone and chasing the 4th. If you want the game to die, take all the fun out of it...
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NOED is helpful for killers that are;
1. Bullied by SWF
2. Trying a new killer for the first time.
NOED is a perk in the game, so deal with it (I don't use it)
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How do you counter dead hard if they use it to gain distance to a pallet they otherwise wouldn't have gotten to?
explain how you counter that.. I'll wait
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Several of the exhaustion perks can technically allow that. Dead hard has the least distance gain of them all though, but you get more control over when you can use it, compared to Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, and Lithe. That trade-up between distance and control is what makes Dead Hard balanced.
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Thing is those survivor perks don't really carry bad survivors. They help them obviously but usually a better killer will beat them.
However as Killer it can carry bad killers. Noed is a second chance also.
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I'd class this as slightly different because your entire build is made for endgame. I'm referencing killers who get little to no downs before all 5 gens are done and then need NOED pressure to bring themselves back from it, facecamping and praying on altrustic solos. Also people who just facecamp then use NOED for a second kill. They're also ######### killers.
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Noed in all actuality is a second chance perk for killers. However, depending on it from start to the end of a match means a killer had no skills in the first place, but having it just in case all generators get done so to ensure a 4k is what makes it a second chance perk and an excellent way to use it, in my opinion.
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-Mindbreaker
-Exhaustion add-ons (Clown, Huntress)
-Blood Echo
three counters there.
Additionally you can run tiles as killer in a way to force survivors away from other tiles, which often times ensures even their dead hard won't be enough.
Killers like Spirit, Wraith, Pyramid head, Huntress, and Deathslinger also counter this by being able to hit straight after the down (PH, H, DS) or catching up in time to ensure that the dead hard meant nothing (S, W). Freddy can place snares slowing the survivor and making dead hard less impactful, same with clown but bottles. Trapper could have pre-set a trap there, same with Hag. Nurse would teleport and it doesn't really matter. Plague could have corrupt making it useless, Demo can shred the distance, and Oni has blood fury available.
The only killers properly affected by it are Billy, Bubba, Doctor, Michael, Ghostface, Pig, and Legion,
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I would rather face NOED killers than a Freddy. Freddy’s lunge is stupid long and deceiving, his dream snares can be infinitely spammed. There as good CC as clowns bottles which have a small number. His dream state is time consuming to get out of and he can teleport. I don’t play Freddy and I feel picking him is cheap plus he is massively unfun to play against. I don’t feel like he needs a nerf. I just feel like if you pick him you are being scummy. Devs don’t need to touch him and neither do gamers.
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It is a survivor objective. Sorry if you don't like doing it, but it will help guarantee an escape, or at least that you will not run into NOED. If you pass by bones and NOED becomes active, it is partially your fault.
It is not like many maps have them particularly well hidden either.
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PH isn't really a bad killer, but he also has the capacity to ignore survivor crutch perks. No killer is bad if you know how to play as them.
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Those custom Killer icons are sick! Wish I could have those on Xbox... Maybe slightly different pics on certain ones... like Julie instead of Joey... Normal Pig instead of dark leather Pig... little things like that, but those are still awesome!
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Everyone kept telling me he was weak. I wanted to prove them wrong so now I main him because he's actually surprisingly fun to play. I don't believe he's weak, that's why I put "Weak" in quotation marks.
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Also thank you! I'm really proud I managed to find the pack on reddit because they bring me so much joy just looking at them!
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I actually main him at red ranks since he came out. Got him to P3 lvl. 50 as well. He can be devastating in the right hands.
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Dead hard is counterable.
Dead harding for distance is not counterable.
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It sucks that Xbox cant change that. : /
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then most survivor are bad then because in every game 3 out of the 4 have tho perks your point?
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Trying to watch this with an open mind, but him stripping all of the nuance out of SWF and Discord being an issue so far is turning me off, feel tone deaf.
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I hate to be that guy, but who gives a ######### what this guy thinks?
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OhTofu is not the end all be all of streamers and I dont follow any particular streamer. I dnt see eye to eye 100% of the time with them, but like to listen to their perspectives.
The one point i am taking from OhTofus persoective is we need to stop trying to make others play how we should think they should play.
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DS by itself is fine. Noed by itself is fine. Its not fine when you use other perks that synergize too well with them.
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For certain, I have been saying this since I hit the forums. Though I feel it's worse for killers. Killers have to endure four other players mocking them at the end of the match and often it gets nasty like with racial slurs, queerophobic slurs, what have you. I'm also seeing a tread of killers being shamed for their add ons, their perks, and even who the play. We're having this discussion in a thread about NOED. I saw one guy get called toxic because he was running Tombstone. Hell--I don't think any perk earns you the badge of shame like NOED. Where OhTofu is wrong is that it is often malicious. I am currently working on a nuanced post about this right now. I am hoping to start a conversation and see what survivors would like to see in this rulebook, should it be adapted or should it be abolished?
I did think the video made some good points. And I agree with you, the shaming has got to stop. I don't see many people talk about this.
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Killer shouldn't be shamed for using noed but... whenever I play against a killer that isn't particularly good at the game, I prepare myself for noed to make an appearance and usually it does.
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tag me in your post, i maybe helpful or useless but i'm more interested in what your thoughts. This is one reason i love the forums, because of different perspectives
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Does it feel good to just regurgitate what other people say all the time?
Make NOED meta guys, despite them entitled survivors.
Mori, tunnel, camp and iri heads too please. Are they holding back? Why should we?
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DS by itself is already extremely strong but it's even worse with unbreakable
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Survivors just regurgitate what they read, that's all.
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I'll say what I said about NOED supposedly being for bad killers: so what?
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Yep.
Second chance perks are for bad survivors, so what? They are not holding back and abuse everything.
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Uhh, Okay?
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Only losers complain about Noed. We survivors have many second chance perks but the toxic players want the killer to have none, because they are not interested in a fair balanced game and that is why they are toxic losers.
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Damn I wish people would read all the comments by a single person in a discussion before commenting.
RELYING on the perks and USING the perks are two different things. If you RELY on the perk NOED and don't get kills beforehand you're a ######### killer, exception being in endgame builds. If you RELY on second chance perks you're a ######### survivor. If you USE the perks but don't NEED them you're not #########.
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This times a million. People who shame killers and dictate their gameplay are just entitled toxic bullies.
The same goes for moris, tunneling, camping, iri heads and whatever killers want to do since survivors do not hold anything back and never shy away from abusing everything and then acting toxic.
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You are typing absolute nonsense this is why no one is reading it.
"Relying" and "using" perks is different things, are you for real?! How do you even define reliance or usage? You mean to just insert the perk and not use it?!
Survivor mains dude....
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LITERALLY go onto Twitch and watch my streams I gave you the link. I'm a killer main mate.
You ASKED me to stream high level gameplay, I DO stream high level gameplay. Oh my God.
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You don't make any sense dude. "Using" and "Relying" on perk dude come ######### on.
P.S: You can be red rank killer and be survivor main too.
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I LITERALLY MAIN KILLER HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?
Is it because I don't automatically subscribe to the whole "survivor op killers oppressed ds bad" narrative that you think I'm not? Newsflash kid people can have different opinions than you.
I don't even play survivor anymore unless I'm asked to or I have archive challenges because it's that unfun for me.
Once again for the people in the back I AM A KILLER MAIN. People have watched me stream. You asked me to stream. I showed you I stream and you're ignoring it. You don't want a discussion, you want an echo chamber.
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Stop with the typical survivor main BS please.
"Survivors can use all no-skill perk it's okay, they are not 'relying' on them. Killer using NOED is a noob because he 'relies' on it! Except when it's end game build I have to mention this so I seem fair and killer main".
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All those perks have counters lol. DS and BT just dont play toxic, Unbreakable is a rare use perk tbh and its only a ONE TIME USE perk so wow a perk that counters slugging how horrible, DH yeah it can be extremely OP but every other time it just isn't, I'd say only 15% of times is it worth it. Countering NOED could literally cost you the game as taking 2+ minutes out of your game to counter a perk is crazily useless.
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And NOED has no counters, right?
Already discussed how DS and BT are not anti tunnel/camp but are easily abused.
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Oh Holy #########.
@hahadrillgobrrr @2ndBusiestmusicnerd You guys have seen me stream. Would you call me a survivor main or a killer main?
OP, literally watch a ######### VOD to see that I don't main survivor. I can't prove to you I'm not a survivor main any more because all the proof you need is in my Twitch channel.
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I edited my response to show how the counter for NOED is hugely flawed. They're perfectly Anti-tunnel and Anti-camp I mean if you're being honest if you're not tunneling someone off hook whats the chances of downing someone else, finding the person with DS, then downing them within 60 seconds? And if you're really playing that well then DS won't screw you over since you're already better than at least half the survivor team.
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It don't matter what or who you are, what you are saying is survivor-biased. What matter is your point and here I go again:
"Survivors can use all no-skill perk it's okay, they are not 'relying' on them. Killer using NOED is a noob because he 'relies' on it! Except when it's end game build I have to mention this so I seem fair and killer main".
This is LITERALLY your point.
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You play both sides, and you even said that you enjoy killer more now. Apparently if you say something like "bt is not op" and it isn't, people will be quick to call you a salty survivor main.
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How is BT not an anti tunnel perk? It can only be used to stop tunneling, because of how short the timer is. Sure, DS can be abused, but BT is fair.
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Its because OP wants everyone to see how oppressed killer mains are lol Like just play both sides dude not that hard
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