Killer mains, do not complain about things that YOU cause

No. Its just the way they disagree. They blame survivor for it. Its just how it is

The fix for NOED?

I mean its hard to say since playing killer and survivor are so different and their are so many variables such as maps. At least for me personally 😅

No.

People use those perks because they're strong perks, and that's perfectly fine. No need to justify it or "blame" it on other players, if someone wants to use something they should just use it.

The big problem with DS from the killer perspective isn’t that it stops us from tunneling or camping, it’s because of the time economy of the game.

It takes about 80 seconds to do a generator solo, so if we assume that only 2 players are on gens at a time, where 1 is either being chased or hooked, and the other is hanging around the chase trying to get a flashlight save or going for the unhook, and we assume it takes about 30 seconds to get from a completed generator to the next generator, it takes about 5-6 minutes for the survivors to finish all gens, and this is assuming that there is no toolboxes, none of the survivors hit any great skill checks, and that the survivors never double up on any generator.

With the information that the killers have, if one person brings DS or Object, there is an obsession in the lobby, and we have to assume that every single person has DS, or be willing to just eat it if we happen to down a survivor again after they get unhooked, and we have to assume that their DS is rank 3.

Now if we add up the times, A survivor can be hooked for 1 minute before they enter struggle phase, and then they can be hooked for another minute after that before dying. Once they get off the hook, they have 1 minute where they are basically untouchable, and if you do down them, either they are stuck on the ground slugged until a teammate comes and picks them up, they get a free escape if the killer picks them up, or they pick themselves up in 30 seconds with unbreakable, and if you don't eat the DS on the first unhook, then they have another minute of invincibility after coming off of the 2nd hook.

Add this up, and one survivor, if the killer play around DS, can eat up about 3-4 minutes alone through sitting on the hook, or by having DS active, adding up to about 9-12 minutes throughout the course of the trial, and that isn't even counting the amount of time that the killer spends chasing that survivor, and a good survivor can be in chase with a killer for 1-2 minutes depending on how determined the killer is to down that one person.

If the killer tunnels the first survivor to death, assuming that they get unhooked once, get picked up right after DS wears off, and then get camped to death, by the time that one survivor is dead, again assuming all the things from before, and we assume that the killer downs and hooks the first survivor in the first 30 seconds of the match, the survivors have already finished 4 gens, and are almost to the last generator.

Realistically, this usually doesn't happen in a match, since most people play solo queue, and thus when someone gets hooked, at least 2 people will be going for the unhook unless someone has Kindred and that will lower the amount of gens completed by the first death by 1, since one extra survivor wasn't working on gens. However, when you face the sweatier teams, it is usually worse than this, since you will usually struggle to get the first down within the first minute of the match, and the other three survivors will all be sitting on gens, sometimes with toolboxes, and there are also times where you will get a survivor injured, and then they will get to a map tile that you will have to loop for way too long to get the down in, and you will have to abandon the chase, wasting 30-60 seconds of your time for no pressure.

And this doesn't even account for the biggest issue with DS, being that if you don't eat the DS before the last generator is done, that survivor is almost certain to escape, since if they get hooked right before or after the last gen is completed, the remaining survivors can go heal, and then 99 both exit gates, the last person goes for the unhook. By the time the survivor is unhooked both exit gates are 99ed, the unhooked survivor with DS has one healthy survivor with them to take a hit, and may also have BT to tank another hit, meaning they will most definitely get to, or very near an exit gate by the time they are downed, and if they get downed near the exit gate, they are free. If the killer picks them up, they activate DS and run out, if the killer slugs them, they just crawl out.

DS is so oppressive because there is little counterplay for it, and probably the best way to counter DS is to eat it early in the game, but then comes the issue that while you are chasing the survivor so you can eat DS, at least 2 other survivors are sitting on generators, so if you eat it just barely too late in the game, you likely just loose the game, and if any of the people you didn't get the chance to eat their DS have DS, then they get a free escape.

After all of this, I do agree that some form of DS needs to exist in the game, because even though it was not made as an anti tunneling perk, it does function as one most of the time, and it is important to have one of those in the game, but in some way they need to make it less oppressive, because as it stands, just the act of having DS makes it so that you, or one of your teamates can do almost an entire generator in the time that you can stall the killer, and even if they slug you, you can just pick yourself up in 30 seconds with unbreakable, or get picked up by another teammate if the killer doesn't bare minimum proxy camp your body.

There are many proposals on how DS should be changed, but my personal ideal DS would look like this.

Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.

After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.

While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.

• Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
• Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
• Interacting with another object, survivor, or with yourself, will disable Decisive Strike (This would include healing yourself or others, mending, doing objectives, sabotage, chests, disarming; sabotaging; or helping another survivor out of a bear trap; Jigsaw boxes, Snapping out of it, Pools of Devotion, and Waking up yourself or others, but would not include, Vaulting, Dropping a pallet, or escaping a bear trap.)
• When another survivor is hooked, Decisive Strike will be disabled.
• Decisive Strike activates for half as long, 20/25/30 seconds, if activated after the exit gates are powered.
• Decisive Strike's timer will not decrease while in a chase.

Increases the odds of being the Obsession.

The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.

Whitesnake - Here I Go Again

If a deaths linger camps and tunnels me at the start of the match I am 100% equipping ds and in anticipation of being matched with him again. Some killers are way too strong at the hook.

I think this balance/change is good but it would need to be released with the at the same time as a hit box change

The fact that I can M1 flick my mouse and hit a survivor with almost a 360° is absurd

Or that as huntress I can throw a axe at the doorway and hit a survivor at the window in killer shack

I understand that it's a killer sided game , but to take away DS in such a way to please the 20% of the player base that already has the advantage is just silly

You can play poorly and noed could give you the two kills need to not depip

Kills you would not of got or dare say even earned

The problem is that with gen speeds the way they are, in order to win at high ranks you MUST proxy camp and tunnel. If you don't remove 1 survivor by the time they finish 3 gens, you are going to lose. It is ESPECIALLY bad when the first chase typically costs you 2 gens.