Killer mains, do not complain about things that YOU cause
Killer mains tend to complain about survivor meta when they are the ones that cause it to happen in the first place. This also applies to some survivors, but mostly it is just killers that do this. This does not apply to every killer player.
Here is what they do: they camp and tunnel a survivor to death and then, in such a way that it is impossible for that survivor to escape without decisive strike. Then, the fun build survivor that just wanted to have fun realizes that he does not stand a chance because the killers he goes against will camp and tunnel if they are losing. He used decisive strike and borrowed time, and then the killer mains ask why they get decisive strike to be used unfairly.
But think of it: most survivors run decisive strike and borrowed time to counter tunnelers and campers, not to be a dickhead. Maybe a side effect from decisive is that the survivor that was tunneled last game ends up using DS for countering this, but he ends up using it after 59 seconds. So, this is my message: killer mains, if you ever camp or tunnel, fine, it is in the game, but stop bitching when you realize survivors are using counter perks. Survivors do not want to lose instantly without being able to do anything, which is why they run the perk. I, myself, used to avoid meta perks, but really, after getting those free wins strats killers, I decided to switch to use borrowed or decisive.
If you do not tunnel or camp, then you complaints are legit and you deserve to argue. However, if you are a killer main that tunnels and then cry about survivors using counter-play, then you are just entitled to your victory.
****This post can also be applied to survivors that are t-bagging and stuff like that and then complain about camping, but they are more rare, so yea.****
Comments
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Not likely...
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Yay! I don't camp or tunnel so I'm allowed to complain!
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Well I once played against those innocent survivors who's been SWF, I was so proud of myself, I managed to caught two survivors in the basement, for some reason one of them yeeted in the basement to do a bold rescue on them, I proc'd BTs and downed the third one who took their place, then the next two came injured and I downed one of them while the other rescued,
I downed the rescuer and proc'd BT and managed an hatchet throw while that time to injure the last one.
Then, the OUTPLAY came, yeah any decent killer main would have done this mistake, thinking already enough time passed, I picked the first one, Got DS, then the second one because I'm a big dum the DS came and by the time they picked up the downed one.
What would have been a 4k became a 0 because of a single perk, and yes maybe I had a blame because I didn't slugged them because I feel bad for it, well no longer now.
DS can be abused in many scenarios and need to be addressed.
Two or more DS in a row is not okay, you cant tunnel two survivor at a time.
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No killer is complaining about DS anti tunneling. They are complaining about DS 60 second invincibility. You could slug but most of those survivors also happen to have unbreakable. Literally no counterplay...
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you dont even understand how decisive strike is used in the game
1) A surv is unhooked, then he agressivly runs to unhook teammate and simply jumps in to a locker. (most killers do not tunnel , so checkmate).
2) A surv is unhooked, then he runs to repair a critical gen that at 90% of progress if you come closer he simply jumps in to a locker You have a choice between wating about 20-50 seconds or losing a gen. Even if there was no locker and you put him in to a dying state he can simply crawl away.
3) A surv is unhooked, then he start repairing a nearest gen without trying to hide/leave a place he was hooked . 80 sec takes repairing of one gen, DS has duaration of 60 sec. Most likely there are 2 survs on the gen.
4) A surv is unhooked, he gets heal, he starts playing agressive and risky , he baits you, bodyblock you, he helps his teammates in recovery from dying state etc, you hit him once and he goes in to a locker or he lures you away in to an empty corner. You cant pick him up and you wasted time chasing him.
let DS be canceled after jumping it to a locker, repairing gen, unhooking a surv and run it as much as you want you can even make it 30 sec longer.
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It's a catch 22
Killers can't win in high ranks without tunneling and slugging and the occasional proxy camp.
Survivors can't counter those without the crutch perks.
TBF I get called a tunneler even when I leave and patrol gens and then run into the same survivor I just hooked and down them again.
I get called a camper for camping the last person on hook when the gates are open
🤷
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If you have played any amount of time as killer, then you realize that no matter what you do, you are called a camper and a tunneler. Survivors are giant, abusive scumbags 50% of the time in my experience. Never once have I tunneled, camped, or done any other toxic thing, yet I get bullied in half of my games and flamed afterwards. Win or lose. DS is almost exclusively used in lockers. BT and body blocking are constant.
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Yes, all killers camp and tunnel and slug and hook survivors and juggle and m1. And sometimes they even have the audacity to M2. What a bunch of toxic wankers. They're all the same. They don't touch survivor, killer and survivor are mutually exclusive. You have to repurchase the game on an alt account to try the other side.
Do people ever take a step back and think about how worthless the whole camp/tunnel argument is? Seriously, if your team doesn't suck and actually does gens, they're escaping, the killer gets punished for not preventing it, and the behaviour goes away thanks to negative reinforcement. Not super-abusable perks needed.
But no, of course your teammate farming you is actually the killer facecamping. The killer snowballing and/or you abusing DS is actually just the killer tunelling. It's totally fair to equip a perk that lets you pick yourself up whenever you need it the most with no actual effort. Because every single killer with no exceptions is a toxic prick, and anything they do that you perceive as unfair is them not playing by your personal rulebook.
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So you're saying the majority of killers camp and tunnel? Ok buddy
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Funny enough, Gen Rushing is the most common reason that forces killers to camp and tunnel in order to gain some semblance of pressure so they can start a snowball effect, or so they can net at least 1 kill before the survivors escape. When up against a true team of "Gen Rushers" (a team equipped to finish 3-4 gens in the first 3 mins of the trial), a killer may only get one or two chases at most in the opening minutes of the trial, and if they manage to down 1 survivor and hook them, only to see 3 gens pop during or right after that chase... a sudden "dying inside" feeling of hopelessness set in for the player, and that really puts pressure on them to try and take any advantage they can get in order to salvage the situation, if possible.
In that kind of situation, of which I have been a part of both from the survivors and killers perspective, the killer really only has 3 options:
- Camp the Hook to try and secure a kill whilst also hoping that more than 1 gen rushing survivor tries to rescue their ally so you can start snowballing the team.
- Patrol around the area within 30 meters of the hook to see if you can spot and down another survivor coming for the rescue, whilst being sure to tunnel and knock the hooked survivor back down again as soon as he gets unhooked to keep the team busy trying to rescue instead of doing gens.
- Leave the hook to attempt to pressure the gens, expect the unhook to happen while locating/chasing a new target survivor, and try to down them asap.
Of these 3 options, no. 2 is the most likely to succeed. If you locate and start chasing a survivor who came for the rescue, that means that a 3rd survivor has to leave gens in order to rescue the hooked survivor, leaving 1 hooked, 1 chased and possibly downed, 1 substitute rescuer, and 1 on a gen. If you also manage to down the survivor again right after they've been unhooked, aka "tunnel" them, that extends the time the majority of survivors aren't doing gens, which allows the killer to start regaining pressure.
Option 1 is sad, and only lets the rest of the team continue finishing off the gens, because if they know you are camping, and they aren't idiots about it, they'll punish the killer for it and escape at the cost of 1 teammate. Option 3 is also pretty bad, because you have to guess where another survivor is most of the time, reach that generator area, and give chase to down them asap. Meanwhile, the other survivor gets unhooked without worry, and can immediately get on a gen with their rescuer, putting only 1 survivor in a chase and 3 doing gens.
Overall, against a true "Gen Rusher" team, very few killers can keep the pressure on the gens consistently enough while getting downs/hooks, in order to put a stop to it. So when that "Dying inside" feeling hits right after 3-4 gens pop earlier than expected, there's not much the killer can do to gain pressure that survivors won't find "scummy". Quite honestly, they should've known their actions directly correlate with the killers change in tactics, so I feel there's no reason to begrudge a killer for having to resort to using them when the survivors knowingly created the situation for it in the first place.
TL;DR
Gen Rushing Survivors should be prepared to "Reap what you sow", because it causes most killers to have to play "scummy" by using tactics like camping and tunneling in order to try and salvage the match. If anything... It's the survivors who shouldn't complain about it when their own "Gen rushing" tactics are directly responsible for causing the change in the killers tactics in the first place.
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That is simply incorrect. There is no rule that says you must let Survivors go after an unhook. DS is an anti-momentum perk, not an anti-tunnel perk. DS is not a "anti-scumbag perk" it, in fact, is often used in a more scummy way by forcing the Killer into a no-win situation. The Killer must either completely leave the Survivor, who was probably unsafely unhooked and forfeit all pressure or, pick up the Survivor, get hit by DS, and have a minimum of another 20 second chase, even if the Survivor just runs in a straight line. So, slugging a Survivor with DS is counterplay whether you like it or not.
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I can’t agree with this. This isn’t valid in every circumstance. Let’s put Dedicated Servers into perspective and then tell me it’s “bad plays”.
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ds is so bs. XD it doesn't just reward bad plays it can also be forced on the killer which most of its annoying problem comes from. like bming the killer with the idea to let them pick you up and chase you some more after you stun them. or hopping inside a locker to force them to eat it.
on its own ds isn't too bad. but when they have so many other perks and stacking that can bring survivors back from whatever mistake they make its gets old very fast.
of course this most a purple and above problem because killers in those ranks dont tend to tunnel unless the survivors were bming them.
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I think it should deactivate when another Survivor gets hooked, when you work on a gen for 15 seconds, or when you are fully healed. It should also deactivate in the EndGame or be on a half timer.
However, I think it should NOT be on a timer in chase. Just like how Deep Wounds doesn't go down in a chase, neither should DS. You are obviously still being tunneled.
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You didn’t disprove my statement though. You’re saying DS rewards bad plays, but if I get smacked through a pallet or from across the map, how is that a “bad play”? I can show you a clip of me getting smacked from about 4 ft away and around a corner. It’s such a broad statement to say.
edit: typo
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This is literally a copy of the post I made about why DS ub is meta lol
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It was not the Killer's fault that the Survivor got farmed, why punish them?
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Well, if this was a poll I would vote for all the most popular perks are fine in their current form.
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This post is very understandable. Both sides just want security in matches that's why they bring the perks they bring so theres no need to complain.
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just stay away from red ranks, its a bunch of sweats giving their life as if the game meant something more than a game
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If you’re talking about the clip I think you’re talking about then you just need to git gud.
That Leatherface clearly transformed into a Nurse, learned how to blink, and got gud, now it’s your turn 😉
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This! ^^^^^^^^
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Because, survivors shouldn't be rewarded for being hooked, and going down in a chase.
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The good old times, when DS not even had a cooldown and you could use it whenever you wanted.
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Listen, I despise tunneling, but what is the killers objective? To kill, and tunneling is the most efficient way to kill, nobody complains about DS for being an anti tunnel perk.
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People are going to find the strongest strategies in games regardless. The "killers" did not cause survivors to learn that they can manipulate so many second chances.
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You're either dodging the argument, or being negligent.
Killers have been pissy about reworked DS for a long time now because it rewards survivors with godmode for 60 seconds, not with tunneling protection.
The amount of times that DS actually has saved someone from being tunneled versus someone just using it to have 60 seconds of godmode to do whatever they want is extremely small; It's honestly just because it's the way the poorly designed perk works, not because survivors are trying to abuse it. It needs to be changed, imo, so that only one survivor can have it active at a time or so it deactivates when you touch a generator instead of the ridiculous invincibility it currently gives. Only then will people not complain about it, as it's been a balance issue since it's existence.
Also, if the survivor is being farmed it's the survivor's fault and not the killers, you can't expect them to give sympathy (although I personally tunnel anyone who does farms their team, just for the fun of it).
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You’re right. v_v I go home now.
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I dont tunnel, it's the survivors who unhook near me.
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Would you rather DS be like it used to, and useable on ANY pickup instead of 60s after hook?
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Ruin got changed becaus "it was unfun for new survivors" not because it did too much. It does just as much (if not more) than it used to.
Because now people dont do bones for ruin.
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Uh, lol? The only problem with DS is that it doesn't just stop tunneling, it gives you god mode. Even if you don't tunnel, a whole team can abuse DS to constantly unhook each other, do gens, and force the killer to eat multiple strikes just for playing the game effectively. And who are you to say that it's MY play-style that makes DS a necessity? Unless you've played against me, you have no clue.
Second of all, I never gave a percentage or a made-up fact: It's EXTREMELY well known, both by good survivors and killers, that DS hardly saves anyone from genuinely being tunneled over just giving people free godmode to do objectives or try to taunt the killer. If I need to give you a statistics lesson just to prove that to you, I can safely assume you haven't played this game enough to understand how much the perk affects matches. And neither did I say every DS is unjustified, I said that the perk is so poorly designed that it's used moreso for 60 seconds of "screw you, I have godmode due to my big skill" more than being genuinely tunneled. If the perk was actually well designed to counter tunneling, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place.
I honestly think you're trolling, as I've played red ranks on both sides and everyone uses DS. If someone doesn't, then it makes sense to tunnel someone off the hook if they do a stupid play and the game will be over much sooner as a result; You're right about it being needed to stop tunneling. However, DS is hated because it is ALSO so poorly designed that it has WAY more power than just stopping tunneling. It's a necessary evil, but it could be easily changed to be a fair anti-tunnel perk with one or two simple changes to how it works.
Your bias against killers also makes me laugh in general, when I have not said anything about DS being abused by survivors but rather the perk itself being flawed.
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@Pipefish well if they complain about BT then they do not like tunneling.
@Maperson campers and tunnelers can also get a kill they did not deserve.
@TWiXT well decisive and borrowed are useless if the other survivors d ogens, so this is out of the discussion. I never said killers were scummy for tunneling, killers are meant to kill, but they should not blame perks for their failures if they use starts that are not fun.
@Immerschläfrig I almost never get this kind of survivors. It is funny how you show the 20% of cases where survivors are toxic while leaving the 80% cases of survivors that do not want to get tunneled behind.
@mistar_z it can also force the killer to use startegies that require more skill than tunneling.
@vector if DS is canceled by jumping into a locker, its an easy tunnel into slugging. You like to show the tip of the iceburg that shows the toxic DS survivors, but as a killer player, I can tell you that it is very rare to get this kind of survivors. Rank 4 at it between.
@Sadsnacks you should not be trashtalked honestly, it is in the game and a valid strat. My problem is when killers come and complain about decisive and borrowed.
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@2ndBusiestmusicnerd well if killers complain about borrowed time, they are tunnelers. If the survivor is an aggressive hook rusher, it gives you the opportunity to start a chase immediately after.
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I don't think borrowed time is OP, it's actually a very healthy perk to prevent tunneling and I think it should be basekit for survivors.
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@2ndBusiestmusicnerd oh, yea. Killer complaints about decisive are partially valid, but it pisses me off to think that these killers are using toxic survivors as an excuse to complain and get rid of a perk that counters tunnelers.
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The difference between DS and BT is that DS actually punishes killers that don't tunnel and instead of being an anti tunnel perk, it's a 60 seconds of immortality perk. BT can't be abused like DS and is just a fun, healthy anti tunnel perk.
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@2ndBusiestmusicnerd you know what? I think I will stop using decisive and switch it up for borrowed time.
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@slunder Good choice, BT has become a staple in my builds, since it punishes campers and tunnelers very well without being too op like DS. I'm glad I could help you mate :).
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@2ndBusiestmusicnerd your welcome! I already banned exhaustion perks that do not require skill (dead hard, lithe and balanced landing), but this will complete the list!
@Maperson they did down you once, but the game is designed so that you go down from 1 to 3 times in a match, so this excuse is dumb.
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Play trapper, trap locker.
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98% of the time I get hit by DS is not because I tunneled someone. I usually eat a DS when someone who I hooked comes to me BECAUSE they have DS. Too many times I hook survivor A and I leave. I down survivor B and then survivor A makes a save before I even get to walk away because they have 60 seconds of immunity. Then I get called a camper and a tunneler because they came to me.
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Ah yes, that's killers' fault that survivors use crutch perks. And it's survivors' fault that killers use crutch perks.
Classic.
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@EvilJoshy I have to agree for the part that it should only be an anti tunnel perk, however you tend to notice more the times that you got hit unfairly due to humans remembering more unfair experiences.
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I usually eat a lot of DS more than anything to be effective in the chases ... the curious thing that one realizes is that the DS usually have those who are bad at playing, when a survivor is good it is even rare that he has it (no they need it).
Well nail me a DS or come to me to give you a hit with BT and you can consider yourself in the lobby, I really hate that people abuse perks.
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if I am running a mori and I see someone with DS I mori them after first hook since I personally find this perk toxic.
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i guess i should give survivors a free pass especially when they perfrom a a terrible play. i guess.
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I’m more of a killer main but play survivor just as much and I don’t see why people run ds
i feel like if you are good at the game you don’t need it just run the killer around until they either see they can’t catch up or until the game is over and you walk out the door
If you are solo I can understand the reason behind wanting ds but if you are a swf you don’t need it you have coms just call out you are being tunneled and may not be able to run the killer so someone can try and take aggro
But yeah that’s just my two cents about it as in swf especially high ranks it’s not used cuz someone got tunneled it’s used cuz they have immunity to go stack on gens for 60 seconds or force it by locker hopping or plain body blocking so you have to hit them down and if they have unbreakable with it you have to take a stun
Other may not agree but this is just my opinion until it’s an actual anti tunnel perk I just find it scummy to use in swf and with unbreakable
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Yuuuuuuup
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