General Discussions
General Discussions
100 Red Rank Killer Games Perk Summary
The first 40 games i wrote down every perk, but it was pretty clear, that only 9 perks were used the majority of time.
So, 400 survivors.
Rankings:
- DS - 174 - 44%
- Iron Will - 130 - 33%
- Borrowed Time - 129 - 32%
- Dead Hard - 127 - 32%
- Selfcare - 119 - 30%
- Adrenalin - 95 - 24%
- Sprintburst - 80 - 20%
- Spinechill - 70 - 18%
- Unbreakable - 66 - 17%
= 990 of 1600 (every survivor used 4 perks) are by just 9 perks - 62%.
The DS + Unbreakable Combo was used by 40 survivors. 37 games by one, 2 games by two and 1 game by three.
I am not surprised. I don't think the data will change much by 1000 games, maybe 1-3% variable.
All other perks where used <30 times. I only have the old data from the devs in mind for DS, where it was around 43%.
Comments
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Why self care though?
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I love that a perk from a paid DLC is always at the top, or near the top, of any of these lists. It warms my heart, it really does. DS overperforming and no incoming nerfs, so far as we know.
Edit: Also, no Resiliance? I see that perk in almost every game.
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It being that high explains why gens are never getting done in my 2 minute plus chases
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I don't think very many people are buying the Halloween chapter jsut for DLC anymore considering its been out for 3 years at this point and has been on the shrine countless times.
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Actually, I believe it's only been in the shrine a handful of times, if what veteran players have told me is true.
Also, I talk to people all the time that bought that chapter just for DS even as little as last week (PC post-game chat).
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It's more common, but still falls off clearly compared to this 9.
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Self Care is actually more efficient. Heal time is the same: 2 Survivors healing for 16 seconds is the same as one for 32 seconds with regard to doing generators. But there's no time spent finding each other. Self Care's performance with regard to Survivor outcomes is quite good, actually.
It's not always the right play to spend 32 sec to heal, but it's not always the wrong play, either.
I think I should put this response on a keyboard macro. :D
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Dev responded PogChamp
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The main problem is when they use it when sloppy butcher is in play. Which is most games nowadays. It's astounding how many players do that in red ranks. They're better off just throwing on Leader and getting on a gen. Or better, using dead hard which is basically a free health state.
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The other day I watched multiple teammates Self Care through Sloppy, Dying Light and Thana against a Legion. This is what too much Self Care does to people’s brains.
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The real problem is that most people with self care don't have the game sense to know when to use it and when not.
Same with 99% people that just waste their dead hard and sometimes sprint burst too.
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What i find interesting is how low UB is i expected DS to be top as it is one of the most powerful perks in the game but thought UB would be higher up thought 3rd or 4th
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I think you're forgetting the "Self Care's performance with regard to Survivor outcomes is quite good, actually" part. I can't find any evidence that SC players are in fact worse than players who don't run it.
I'm not saying more people should run it. I'm just saying that it's an unfounded prejudice to assume that a player with SC is bad.
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What I would suggest is that there isn't a necessarily a problem with all those other unused Perks, but rather that these few are SO GOOD that all the others suffer by comparison. That means one would either have to improve all the others to the point where they look palatable (HUGE JOB AND RISK) or tweak these back down to where they are not auto-include.
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Your response definitely does not meet my experiences with self care users. I could record the results of my games with self care users. Let's just say it's really quite bad. Majority of these players are incredibly bad.
#BuffPig.
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Brown medkits tho
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self-care is best killer perk. The main reason why people look down upon self-care is because the perk trades health states for pallets for when other people are in chase while you heal. what you get at the end is a map with no pallets and everyone healthy. a death sentence for survivor. Its also one of the easiest heals to interrupt so people waste extra time in odd places to self-care for what could be spent on doing generators or healing on generators and saving perk slots that actual help win the game.
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Bond is better.
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I’m quite surprised a Dev would say this. Well no not really considering you all don’t understand the logistics of your own game.
While the time spent per second is the same, the opportunity cost is drastically different. And this entire game is about opportunity costs.
It is far better to do gens until someone else heals you and then go for a save then it is for two injured people to be self caring, doing no gens and no one go for the save. This game isn’t about a single survivor. It feels awkward to have to explain this to a dev, but then again you all are the ones who thought insta blinds were fine until someone taught you all a lesson.
There’s very little situations where self care is useful. The one obvious situation is where two are dead and one is on the hook and you need to heal before a rescue. Congrats. Amazing use of a perk slot.
Self caring is one of the worst possible uses of time. If this game didn’t have a time limit, I.e. gen time vs hook pressure then you’d be right. But it does. And you are not correct.
I feel like I should put this on a macro.
Edit: if you all continue to want to throw “stats” around and say things like “from what we see” then have the courage and the maturity of release all of the data for this game. It doesn’t take much to sit there and make claims that no one else can possibly debate because you all won’t release access to the raw stats.
For example: What are the chances a SC player it on a SWF team? And then if that chance is above the norm could that perhaps be responsible for you not seeing their performance as being worst? Because solo queue players have an entirely different perspective on SC players. The ones that never figure out the killer has nurses and sit there to self care in front of the killer as a Rank 1. Or the ones that let you die on hook because they wanted to self care first. Because you know, when there’s only 30 seconds left on your hook self care has the same efficiency as two people healing... /s.
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Same here. This week alone I've seen several games thrown completely by self care users when I'm on hook. Even with Kindred active. They'll see the other survivors engaged by the killer (or dead) and still think the 36+ second heal is the right option.
I think its a solo survivor thing for some players. Not trusting others to heal you.
Its why I say that the worst possible advice you can give a new survivor is "play claudette first".
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I’m quite surprised that people refuse to even consider what the dev responded with might be true. If I remember correctly bhvr handles close to a billion events in their data stream (which I assume are broken down into statistics on a much wider scale than people’s personal experience which helps them make balance/game decisions).
Seems like people hating on the devs response for no reason.
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You haven't felt the overwhelming urge to (rightfully) DC until you've seen that exact play against a forever freddy. At that point they're just wasting everyones time and I'd rather play another game.
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Yeah I was surprised Unbreakable and spine chill both weren't higher, as they're the only 2 on the list I use, and I see both fairly frequently from both teammates and opponents when I'm killer.
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I can just speculate, but those perks are more likely used by SWF, because they don't need kindred / bond / alert for information they allready have per voicecom. I don't use any of those 9 perks and i don't mind it.
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I think it was in the shrine maybe last year I dont remember, I remember it being on a 2018 that's how I got it even though I have the dlc
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How is 44% overperforming? It means it activates less than 44% because not every DS is used.
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And they nerfed Ruin for being overused. Lmao.
Yeah the Ruin nerf is necessary in THIS gamestate. It was nerfed too early. The period of time from the Ruin nerf to the mid chapter that removed most infinites and tweaked coop gen times are what I refer to as, the "dark times".
The dark times were a period of time where survivors definitely ruled the game with an iron fist, and the only killers who could compete were Nurse, Billy, Spirit and Freddy. Now with the removal of infinites and the increased viability of new killers, the game is now, in a semibalanced and fair state.
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I don't believe these results. You don't even have OoO listed on here. I read these forums every day and OoO has broken the game and needs removed. Surely out of those 100 games you had to have many ruined by object correct?
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OoO may be "OP" but it is not used all that often.
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A streamer said self care is bad, therefore it is bad mmmmkayyy
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DS doesnt have to be used to be powerful. The simple fact that there is an obsession changes the way killers play.
Much like old ruin gave killers too much passive power, DS does the same. By existing it makes the obsession mechanic pertinent and powerful.
Just look at how killers play without an obsession and you see the strength of passive DS.
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The perk doesn't do anything unless it's used, sorry that killers who tunnel are too scared to pick up survivors because of an icon but that's on them
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You are acting as if it is a bad thing that Killers are not free to tunnel because they might get hit by DS. I mean, I know for sure what happens when no Obsession is in the game.
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How a self-care user looks like for someone who uses No mither:
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Why do people think the power of DS is solely in its activation?
And how is 44% NOT overperforming if, in your argument, it's not even being activated? That's not 44% of trials, btw, that's 44% of survivors, which means almost every single trial has DS value.
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What about a self care, inner strength, second wind, no mither player though?
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and ruin was used in 80% of red rank trials.
you can have 4 people in a trial with DS and never see it being used. the fact killers think people just having it equipped = overperforming.
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I believe i had about five games with somebody using OoO. It's very rare. One of them played against my aura reading wraith and he disconnected after the first down.
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Thank you very much for you data! IMO, they really should been looking into the second-chance perk domination not because they are too strong, but because some of people won't buy any new DLC because they are already satistied with existent perks. For me, this just make the argument that meta perks are killing build variance, stronger. 😔
I see some big pp energy here. I'm approving. 😁
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oh now i understand why devs think that genspeeds are fine lmao
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Crazy idea, but here we go: what if instead of nerfing the only good perks survivors have(which is the reason why only these perks are used) we buff the other 90% of crappy perks and we encourage build variety this way? Crazy, I know.
People don't use the new perks because they are "satisfied" with the old ones, they use them because all the new perks are complete garbage.
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This is really not saying much of anything. Yes, I see DS, Unbreakable, DH, etc, etc more than other perks. I also run BBQ, Ruin, DH, STBFL and a few others much more as a killer. When I play survivor, I don't run any of the perks you mentioned except for the occasional Spine Chill or Iron Will. Why? I just choose to. I see many killers running the same perks over and over and over.
Why is that? Are the perks OP? No, they are just solid perks that get lots of use and come in to play more than not. Why run perks like Deja Vu that are absolutely useless 99% of the time, or Monstrous Shrine.....yeah- I got nothing for that one; when you could be running perks that are actually helpful in matches no matter what?
I think the complaints about "meta" perks is an absolute waste of time. The reason there are roughly 20 perks on each side used over and over is because the other 5,475,339 perks are absolute trash. Ok....I might have overstated the number of perks by one or two, but you get the idea.
Most perks suck. You want people to run perks that suck or are only useful in very specific situations? I laughed when someone locked a gen while Ruin was up. Good job Captain Stupendous. I came by a few minutes later and the 50% gen was dead. Thanks for that. Nobody returned to work it and it died out. They thought I was going to kick the gen, but I was more interested in pushing them into the trapped field behind the gen. Or, when I see Small Game run, but I have no traps on Freddy and no Hex totems. Absolute wasted perk. Can Small Game be good? Sure, but it is situational. Dead Hard and Iron Will are almost always going to come into play. Same with DS now days. I dared play a few survivor matches this week and got chased right off the hook in 7 out of 9 matches. Absolutely a blast.....
Stop whining about meta and ask for better perks all around!
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Never gonna give it up, coz it never let's me down. Never tells lies or deserts me. So you will have to pry Kindred from my cold, dead hands.
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That's not true. A lot of the new perks are very good, people just want to have second chances.
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Made a mistake while looping? Press E to fix your mistake with Dead Hard.
Your team made 2 huge mistakes as (1) clustering around the killer and (2) managing to die too fast that all team got slugged, use your unbreakable.
Got unhooked and see a generator with a locker close? Rush the generator and every time killer come close for the next minute, jump into the locker. He cannot slug you because you have unbreakable, he can waste precious time waiting your locker ds or just eat the ds. Doesn't matter what he chooses he will lose.
And you say this is balanced? Bullshit. Needs fixing urgently. Killers pay heavily for their mistakes and survivors should too.
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Ok but the time you're spending healing should be focused on a gen first, if you're healing every time you get hit self care is a terrible perk and majority of the people that run it will immediately heal every single time instead of doing a gen first so if you add up self caring just 3 times in a game that's 96 seconds wasted when you could've jumped straight on a gen and got healed by a teammate afterwards in 16 seconds or just run inner strength and knock out two birds with one stone and be healed in 8 seconds for doing totems which you should already be doing anyway so there's really no wasted time considering totems and lockers are usually near generators anyway
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When did i ever say its good for killers to tunnel? i was just pointing out that DS has a function whether you get the stun or not. There are zero other perks in the game that are as powerful as DS. Its mere existance changes the game.
Now. If you are going to put words in my mouth at least try to make me say something close to what I was talking about.
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But this exactly is the function. If there is an Obsession in the game and the Killer does not have any Obsession-Perks, DS is very likely since the other Perks which are Obsession-Perks are pretty weak (except for Object, but a) the Killer sees it and b) having an Object in the game does not mean that nobody has DS).
And well, your wording "too much passive play"... "changes how the Killer plays".. "Just look at how killers play without an obsession and you see the strength of passive DS." looks like you think that it is a bad thing. If this was not meant this way, apologies for that.
I mean, if anyone asks me, there should always be an Obsession in the game. At least this is probably 50% of the reason why I use DS - to create an Obsession.
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You literally said killers play differently when there isn't a DS in the game, and I've seen it, they hit the person off the hook and hook them again, as far as I'm aware (I have 5k hours not a lot i know) but that's called tunneling.
It has no power unless it's used, sorry but "there's an obsession" doesn't always mean there is a DS, and if killers play differently and don't tunnel because they're super scared of a 5 second stun that is on them.
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I didnt mean it to be like that at all. I hate being tunneled and try my hardest not to tunnel when i play killer. (Unless theres an Object user. They die.)
Yes. I did say killers play differently. Nowhere did i say that killers should or shouldn't tunnel. All i was doing was pointing out the fact that the 5 seconds stun doesn't have to activate for DS to have an effect on the game.
I wasn't promoting gameplay mechanics, wasn't championing tunneling. I made a statement of fact about the power of a perk. A perk which in my opinion is the single strongest perk in the game.
Do i think it's too strong? Yes and no. A 5 second stun isn't that big of a deal in most situations, especially early game. Late game can be the difference between a win or loss. Which there can be an argument made that picking up the unhooked survivor early to purposely remove the DS threat is a good strategy. (Again not promoting)
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