I'm worried for The Executioner
I'm going to keep this post brief and to the point, I do not believe the buff awarded to The Executioner in the future will be enough to compensate for his nerf. Allow me to explain.
These are the changes The Executioner will be receiving soon.
- Increasing the delay after cancelling Rites of Judgement before Pyramid can attack.
- Decreasing the delay after attacking with Punishment of the Damned.
Now before I start, I would like to say I am grateful that the developers have given us both a nerf and a buff to compensate. It shows that they are proceeding with these changes with caution, and it shows they are careful not to irritate the Executioner players and I appreciate that. Thank you.
My argument however is that I feel in this case his buff may not be enough to compensate for his nerf. Allow me to explain.
Rites of Judgment is powerful and very useful in disrupting and tracking Survivors, however it is Punishment of the Damned which feels the more rewarding. This is because Punishment of the Damned helps you down Survivors in the chase, saving you time and granting you leverage which is what all killers aim for in the match. Due to its short range, width, and long 5 second cooldown, you want to use this attack when you are certain it will hit, and what better way to do so then when a Survivor is proceeding to vault or drop a pallet? A good Executioner will achieve this even in average pallet loops by baiting the survivor, this is done by using their Rites of Judgement as the survivor is reaching their pallet, effectively playing a mindgame that is in your favor if played well. They drop the pallet or vault, then it is a guaranteed hit with Punishment of the Damned. If they decide to continue running, then simply get out of Rites of Judgement and use a basic attack.
To combat this, the developers are increasing the cooldown from cancelling Rites of Judgement and this troubles me. His short cooldown is what gives him strength, grants him flexibility during the chase and is what keeps him lethal. You won't see a Demigorgon charge their shred to disrupt a Survivor's running formation or bait them into dropping a pallet if they had a longer cooldown for canceling it as well, and the same argument goes for the Cannibal, Hillbilly, Clown, etc. A longer cooldown means a stricter use.
They will be decreasing the 5 second cooldown for using Punishment of the Damned to compensate, this is appreciated but I fear it is not enough. Because Punishment of the Damned is what will win chases, the developers must proceed these changes with high caution, as a nerf like this can largely weaken the Executioner in the long run. For a few days I have been contemplating and wondering how to manage this weakness, and I remain uncertain if these buffs will do the trick but here are my thoughts:
Decrease the Punishment of the Damned attack animation so that the attack lands quicker
OR
Increase the length of Punishment of the Damned.
Currently Punishment of the Damned sits at 12 meters, perhaps increasing it to 14 meters would be of great assist combined with the shorter cooldown. But I fear the shorter cooldown won't be enough to manage this, and ultimately like all of you I have no better choice then to wait and see how this plays. For now, I shall remain cautiously optimistic. I was in the middle of writing a post titled 'Executioner has no couterplay?' in which i go into detail how to play him and play against him, but this change has placed that post on pause.
Let me know how you feel about the changes to the Executioner, do you agree or disagree, and politely support your opinion as well. Let's keep this discussion civil and avoid the name calling please. Thank you for your time, and I'll will be seeing you... in the other side...
Comments
-
They need to increase the speed of the attack, or remove the red warning lines. Good survivors against a low ping killer don't get hit.
15 -
The attack is slow, heavily telegraphed and has a very narrow hitbox. Watch anyone play against PH and you see that a single step to the side is often enough to avoid it. Compare that to Huntress who might as well be throwing a damn elephant the hitbox is so large.
You could improve the turning, hitbox size, travel speed, or activation speed....any of those really, instead they went only for the cooldown.
27 -
It is mandatory to reduce the delayed hit of POTD, otherwise this will be a big nerf. I hate to see that they don't even know why people use his POTD mainly on palettes and windows. They mistakenly assume that people don't use M2 in other places because of the long cooldown.
10 -
So in other words you are worried because he isnt going to be able to put you in the lose/lose situation. Nice try g
7 -
No worries! just another kill you will no longer see
5 -
If they remove the lines he would get nerfed somewhere else. Just because you say good survivors don't get hit by it men's he needs a buff for it because not everyone that plays is good most aren't good or are just average and maybe you just need to not be as predictable with it or place it better.
0 -
I think they should really consider buffing the turn speed to be full mouse movement as well as the nerf and buff he's getting. They want people to predict survivor movements and hit them through walls etc, yet the turn speed is so slow and clunky that even when you get a hit it's not even remotely satisfying because his camera control is so unintuitive. Making it unrestricted would allow people to actually play him the way the Devs intended while also giving him a pretty high skill ceiling, because you'd have to practice your aim (plus I wanna 360 hit people through walls, it'd be ######### hilarious)
4 -
I'm sure that in whatever aspect he may fall short in will be noted if revealed in a PTB. So he would be changed if he really is too weak.
So don't worry about it, he'll be fine.
1 -
He had to actually put you in lose lose situations, which if survivors are smart enough, can avoid most of them and force a 50/50.
6 -
Both pallets and windows are lose/lose against him. Didnt know we are trying to defend it yikes.
6 -
Nurse quietly raises her hand and begs to differ.
8 -
I played some Executioner earlier trying to get a feel for what they intend to do and still don't understand why it seems so awful. You dig a trench then attack. It's intended to get you to attack more right?
Assuming you're using it in a loop, you're not only priming them for getting tormented but also aggressively predicting their movements rather than waiting for a sure thing. And if they get tormented, cage, then go back to patrols.
If you need more practice, play Doc. The attacks are almost exactly the same length and width and delay without add-ons.
2 -
Well I am maining her right now and she still does amazing.
I have read some people say that this PH change will increase the skill needed to do well with him, just like the nurse change did for her.
It is a good change, something so easy and skill less shouldn't be allowed.
Some people have said that his power is only good when it is used when survivors are locked in an animation, that is not a good thing and it should be changed.
2 -
He has some lose lose, but he isn't just "ah are you at a pallet? free hit!". He is mainly 50/50s, kinda similar to huntress now that I think about it.
Saying EVERYTHING is a lose lose against him is just overexaggerating.
11 -
PH main here. I don’t know how many of these threads need to exist. Do a search before posting.
changes are needed and welcomed, what I’ve been asking for (mostly, they didn’t touch cages but that’s ok for now) since his release for better balance and counter play
2 -
Can you post a link to your stats real quick?
1 -
I mean the majority about him is lose/lose/tunnel. Hes just a poorly designed killer. His 50/50s arent even 50/50 since he isnt guessing only you are. Also the guesses arent no where near fair and all in his favor. He just sits and reacts.
2 -
How is the majority of him a lose/lose? not the case at all
3 -
I'm worried because his power may lack the reward it offers for the risk it takes. I'm not opposed to his change, I am addressing that the buff to make up for it may not be enough.
This isn't me being biased, I wrote this post thinking of how this change affects both the killer and survivor.
4 -
Yeah its a bit worrying. I'm gonna hold off on judgment till we actually get our hands on it though.
5 -
Hard to be unpredictable when he makes a loud noise, roots you in position so you can't turn does a large obvious animation with his sword, sends out two warning lines and then a wave that takes longer to hit the further they are away.
Oh and the killer glow always is already showing where he will shoot before all that so you can look for the direction of that in a loop to tell.
3 -
Because the only defense you have ad a survivor (windows and pallets) are a lose/lose against him. Also even in in the open he can zone you into a lose/lose.
1 -
That's fair I hope his buff makes the nerf not completely kill him.
1 -
I'm aware of the threads but none of them are mine. I would like to contribute and add my own thoughts and ideas, my own voice to be heard, rather than to stay silent and move along. Basically, I'm passionate about this change and I would like to assume that so are the others. I'm sorry if this post was to your distaste though, my intention was not for that.
Changes are welcomed, but most be carefully monitored. That is part of my discussion here. Was never against the change, just voicing a concern that the con outweighs the pro.
2 -
This just not true, only if you let it go to a certain point. Do you complain about huntress as well? She can chuck a hatchet in your back while you vault, after you dropped the pallet and while you vault it. Dropping pallet early helps alot, do not give me the "wasted" pallet excuse which isn't one, you drop pallets early against clown too. At the end of the day he is a 115% dude with no mobility and crumbles when everybody does the objective.
What is zoning in the open? Sounds like you complain about getting hit in a deadzone.
4 -
Cant believe I actually have to argue with someone comparing a braindead killer to a skilled killer here we go.
1. Huntress actually has a cooldown if she winds down. If she cancels she cant m1 immediately. Everyone knows huntress pallet rev. So the smart thing to so against them is to greed.
2. Predropping against pyramid head is how you get hit by the range hence the lose/lose. Drop if you want to eat the range dont if you want to wat the m1.
3. Zoning in the open as forcing you to dodge and lose distance. Granted yes you would get hit either way but it doesnt make it any less cheap. Its still a guess.
3 -
Also, huntress slows down significantly, same with demo. Idk why people are comparing demo and huntress to PH.
1 -
Exactly then they try and make it seem like I'm gonna complain about them next.
1 -
I agree with your first point, however you're skipping things on your other two.
You're only getting hit when predropping if PH is already on POTD and at a range of 8 meters with no add-ons, if you get hit when predropping its honestly your fault / you got read.
There's no reason to dodge in the open, his attack can be dodged on reaction.
2 -
That's assuming he has no range add ons meaning you have to guess. It still has a strong psychological effect correct?
0 -
I'd say the first time you predrop against him you have a pretty good chance, but consecutive times are less likely to work since he's expecting it, Even though he still needs a pretty good read to go into POTD before he starts looping. If he does that then it's lose/lose.
0 -
Braindead killer, yes big talk coming from somebody who plays swf with OoO, much skill required in the super easy mode.
- ph has a cd when he misses his attack, how big is the cooldown after huntress canceling the hatchet? 20s? no? oh
- no that is not how you get hit, you get hit because you let him come into range and drop because you got greedy, predrop means before he can hit you with the attack
- a lie, you gain distance when you dodge since he has a cd after missing potd
- honestly watch botb, take notes what survivors do against him and stop to cry
- so funny, the killer you claim forcing only lose/lose on a survivor often has to leave survivors because he can not finish the chase. i know noob killer right? oh wait no, 5k hrs and other similar amounts, ######### magic
6 -
That's fair like you said consecutive pre drops womy get you any where.
1 -
I'd like his handling when he is dragging the great knife into the ground be give him full control instead of making it clunky and get rid of the red lines that tell survivors the attack is coming.
Idc if the cancel is getting nerfed, I just don't want him to be garbage after this, Pyramidhead is like a dream killer for me and was a good surprise when he got put in as i love Silent Hill 2.
His power relating to Punishment of the Damned has always been horribly designed in my opinion and i hope with them looking at him they can do more to make this other side of his power fun and useful to use rather than pretending to use it and is better to not use it in most cases.
4 -
I honestly think they're doing it backwards. They're adding a penalty for switching out of rights of Judgment to hit with basic attacks because people use Punishment of the damned so much, yet they're making you recover faster from the thing they're trying to balance in the first place. shouldn't the penalty come from using the ranged attack not from just marking the ground?
0 -
oh and a quick question, why wont the forum let me start things in general discussions anymore? It makes me select a category and none of them are this.
0 -
True, and I feel that this change well promote a more flexible usage of POTD in a way, but I also fear that it may not do enough. If I had the choice I would leave Executioner as is, however I would be foolish to turn a blind eye to the complaints people have with him. I appreciate that the developers are not only addressing this but also providing a means to keep his power strong so to speak. I just wonder if the cooldown reduction would be enough 😕
0 -
How would such an unrestricted movement change work on console, where any killer cannot turn anywhere near as quickly, let alone PH?
0 -
I'd love 10 meters at base, but i'd also like a flick of sorts or just full control or more control while the knife is in the ground.
It's fun trying to get crazy shots but it really sucks when you miss and they get miles away.
0 -
I say this a lot, but I believe his PotD should linger.
It's very difficult to hit against good players anyways, so PH could fire it at a key location to prevent the survivor from going there at the risk of damage of some other effect.
This way they could keep the power and give it more utility.
0 -
Despite all that most people still get hit and go down so... I'm not sure what to say but making it not be there is never gonna happen unless you wanna see him gutted somewhere else.
0 -
I run OoO in solo as well. Am I supposed to take It off because I'm playing with friends? Also I use it for my benefit. I hardly give any callouts except for who the killer is. I have to once again debunk all of what you say.
1. We arent talking about missed attack cooldowns we are talking about cancelling from putting the sword in the ground which has none. Maybe learn to read?
2. It is how you get hit because hes still gaining on you even with his sword in the ground and range add ons exist. You need a good distance to prethrow. Even then because hes still really fast you are now in a situation where if you run through the pallet you are hit by the range or dodge and get insta canceled.
3. Once again buddy he has to actually miss we arent even talking about missing its canceling from putting the sword in the ground.
4. I'm pretty sure that's a strawman who brought botb up? Also why cant you show it are you not good enough?
5. His lose/lose is what makes him end chases fast he does not need to leave chases often.
Seriously dude you need to look at things objectively.
1 -
You're worried about the executioner? He's freaking worried about the executioner. Wanna know what i'm worried about? How to play my damn rent and feed my sixty children. THAT'S WHAT IM WORRIED ABOUT YOU STOOPED PIECE OF MACARONEY I'M GONNA EAT XOUR XDKKSMS SUSUSKSMSS SJSJS S SHSBSNSNXHZ
0 -
I was starting to main him but yeah I’m ditching him now so that’s definitely one less.
They compare him to Demo but Demo feels clunky and unresponsive. I get they need to balance the game but what makes chases fun as survivor is how responsive they are, having delays where your character doesn’t respond to any input isn’t fun it just feels awkward.
R.I.P PH
The DBD silent hill chapter joins the ranks of silent hill HD collection and silent hill homecoming. Should I have expected any less from Behaviour Interactive?
2 -
You have debunked nothing, OoO + SWF is busted af, using it and complaining is hilarious and nothing else.
- so how long is the cooldown when huntress cancels? there is hardly a diffrence between the two
- you do run sprint burst, pls do not act as if you do not gain distance and have no chance to prethrow that is simply hilarious. he is 115% with no sword in the ground and less with it in the ground, 98% while putting it down and 110% afterwards he can also not keep it forever down. thing is you run the loop with the pallet down, either he can try to use his power which is telegraphed and makes for an easy dodge or continue normal loop either way you waste lots of his time
- to miss with his power is nothing hard, unless survivor is locked into animation or tight hallway, it is not a shot from death slinger, it is not a fully charged hatchet, saying it is hard to dodge is hilarious when it is telegraphed the way it is. the only way a survivor gets hit by it when not locked into animation or tight hallway is by making mistakes and that is it
- nope it isn't a strawman at all, botb showed that ph is a rather weak killer. unlike you, some people want to improve at the game and thus look at the best players and how they play and adapt. i know this is something you have never done, instead you cry on the forums for help. no worries the devs are there to hold your hand and you got your wish, do not cry further. just don't cry about killer variety, no threads where you cry about nurse/spirit etc... you wanted it that way because you could not be bothered to improve.
- yes when going against potatoes no killer ever needs to leave a chase. i recommend you watch the games and learn something but on the other hand, why bother? he is going to be changed and probably just another killer you will not see anymore. good for you.
4 -
This is just like DS/Pop.
Devs nerf a killer perk ignoring the fact that a survivor perk has the same issues.
Devs nerf PH because “lose/lose” while ignoring all lose/lose situations on the survivor side.
Everything they pretend to care about gets ignored if its survivor perks that cause it. I guess the backlash from exhaustion those years ago really has them afraid of the community.
2 -
you are just saying that because you don't have the game-sense to avoid a "lose lose" situation, his ability is actually quite easy to avoid if you think for one second and read his movements and playstyle, knowing how to play him yourself also helps, but being truly good at the game and perceptive is key, which I bet you aren't, probably just a survivor who teabags after throwing a pallet down then clicks the flashlight, three seconds later getting downed and dc'ing.
2 -
The whole reason for the change is solely because Pyramid head can fake it. Either you vault the window or the pallet and get hit with the ability, or you don't and he just m1s you immediately. You literally cannot win in loops with that. If survivors cannot do loops, they cannot win chases, period. Survivors are naturally on the losing side of chases anyway. They are slower than almost every killer, by default, and killers gain an ever-increasing speed buff the longer they are in chases. Pallets are used to put a blocker between you and a killer when they inevitably catch up, and widows are the same thing. If a killer can just completely ignore pallets and windows, then unless you're a complete moron, you will always win the chase.
I honestly wouldn't care about this stuff if they would change the way the evader emblem is awarded, and start granting points for not being seen all match. Sure, you should get more for being close and not chased, but as many times as I've run a killer for minutes on end, I STILL only end the match with silver evader. If the devs want to force more face-time with a killer, then yeah, they can't just hand them wins with chases. For that reason, a consistent lose/lose situation like what has been seen with Pyramid Head faking his ability to zone in (and yes, it's the exact same with Deathslinger and Huntress) can't happen. If we want the mind-games to be a strategy, then they have to be a risk/reward. In most of these PH situations, the survivor is the one mind-gaming by faking a window fault or a pallet flip, but there's no consequence for killers like PH because they are guaranteed the hit either way since they have no cd when faking their ability. PH, however, isn't mind-gaming by faking. He doensn't have to mind-game because he is pretty much guaranteed the hit either way. The only way he isn't is if he somehow can't aim at the animation-locked survivor in front of him. You can't even run into his avatar, because he can 360 with his sword.
Proper mind-game killers are those like Spirit, who can fake using her ability to make you think twice about what you're doing. She's not guaranteed the hit, though. Again, with PH, you can't do that. If you flip the pallet or vault the window, you're getting hit. If you mind-game, you're getting hit. If you avoid the pallets and windows, you're getting hit. If you avoid PH entirely, you're going to lose a rank, and when you're inevitably hit with the randomly-afflicted torment bug while working on a gen, you're revealed anyway, so you can't even simply avoid him by not being seen.
1 -
If you truly think I'm bad I upload on youtube. His lose/lose are at windows and pallets those are your only defenses there is no "avoiding" that. I also am uploading a chase montage and I'm including 2 PH chases.
@GoodBoyKaru since you are a Pyramid Head main I want to ask you is a lose/lose fair?
2 -
Oh yeah that bug where you randomly become tormented for literally no reason, that can happen wherever you are in relation to the killer and his trails, is so annoying. It's literally cost me my life in so many games it's unreal. There's a reason I just sit on gens and try to get the objective done ASAP if it's a PH, and that is one aspect of it.
0
