the mindset of some killers need to change really.

I play ds in every build, and if some days I'm being slugged a lot then I'll throw on unbreakable but I don't normally play that perk. One time I had a Freddy message me saying 'damn bro you playing that small pp build', I don't force these perks in killers faces, I use them when they need to be used.

and ive discovered plenty of killers who will sit there and use ######### like OOO/DS/UB/SG or BTL+Streetwise+PT+Commodious Toolbox with 2 charge add-ons. it goes both ways, no matter what you try and compare there will always be hypocrites on both sides (or people who just use strong things, not necessarily hypocrites).

Brown, maybe high green rank, yes?

I wasn’t really even referring to anything regarding the actual term and what it means. Maybe don’t go around telling people what it is they do and don’t understand. Thanks.

Bad killers.

funny you say that, because bad killers have a considerably harder time making it to red ranks every month.

I was with you until OoO. I'd consider that just as fine and fair play as anything else in the game. Much like SWF in general, its ceiling is very high in the right hands. If you have a god looper with excellent game knowledge in a four-man SWF and the killer isn't a stealth killer, sure, they can do some damage. Most of the time, though, they don't check all of those boxes and OoO just ends up getting them killed early. That's probably why the devs have said they don't think it's as broken as some people seem to think.

Dead Hard, Adrenaline, and DS all bother me more as killer than OoO, with the notable exception of when I'm playing as Trapper against a four-man SWF. Still, I wouldn't consider any of them broken. They're all just strong. OoO has a massive downside to go with its massive upside, especially against stealth killers, and it also isn't going to stop a snowball once it gets going in the way that the other perks I mentioned can . Once you have the upper hand in a match, survivors often know exactly where you even without OoO but they will still struggle to break your pressure.

I don't think they're doing it just to BM you lol, they're probably just trying to bait you into a chase, which is why many people run OoO in the first place. They're confident in their ability to loop and they want to bait you into chasing them so they can make you waste your time. And, if you decide to ignore them, they just get to know where you are. So, for them it's a win win.

I usually just ignore them until I know they're in a weak tile or until they come out to go for a save or something. Then I make sure to chase them, down them, and, if they're actually good, probably proxy camp them. If they're not good I will still preferentially chase them, but I won't bother explicitly trying to remove them from the game.

So, while it's not healthy for the game imo, I also don't think it's that broken in terms of strength. If you want the OoO user out of the game, you can 100% make that happen. And, since they're probably in a SWF, camping is probably honestly going to be effective; they probably won't let that person die on the hook without a fight and will just end up feeding you free pressure.

Why? Their team still needs to do generators, so you will still be able to find them by patrolling. Much of the time, and especially during the start of a match, the obsession will not be able to tell how close a killer is to their buddies' generators. Their squad mates also might not know where the obsession is if their position is hard to communicate, so they will sometimes have trouble explaining where they are relative to one another. In cases like that the obsession might be able to say "he's going towards this part of the map", but that's about it. That doesn't apply to all maps, but for many maps that's certainly the case. So, while in theory you could make it so that your squad is basically invisible and the killer is forced to chase you, in practice I have yet to play against a team that has managed to pull that off. I honestly don't find that OoO gives survivors working on gens much more warning than my terror radius already would, and this is even less of a problem when I'm using a mobile killer.

There are some specific situations where the OoO user can be a real pain in the butt, but most of the time it's not a big issue. Even if so, though, you can always just win your 1v1 with the obsession and camp them out of the game.

You may bring any perks you like against me and my piggy we do not discriminate. I will not bring noed or mori with me. This is how i play. ...most survivor perks are predictable they dont really bother me. Sure some instances they get annoying....i think the only survivor perk that pisses me off is sprint burst lol

I mean, I agree but as a more general rule. No matter who does it, that sort of player shaming inspired by grievances with parts of the game is just plain silly.

But that's not a survivor or killer thing. It's a gamer thing, or more specifically a scrub thing. Because that's what it is, when someone can't seperate their dislike of something in the game from the player they're just a whiny scrub.

1) They're not immune, but the disadvantage of giving the killer an exact aura reading on you far outweighs knowing when a killer is within 72m within a wide cone of the map. You can basically say "this killer is on this third of the map" in exchange for them knowing your exact location. Not a fair trade.

2) That absolutely does help you as killer. Every piece of information you can get on survivor location is useful. There's a reason why things like Bitter Murmur take up an entire perk slot, despite the short aura reading duration they offer. That might tell you where to go with your next pop, or where to start your next chase. If you're chasing towards the spot where the object was doing an objective, that might even allow you to slug and jump into another chase. Against a SWF that already knows where I am, I am totally fine with one person knowing my exact location in exchange for knowing theirs. Good luck calling out moonwalks and head fakes quickly and accurately enough to make a real difference in chases, even if you're sweating hard enough to have developed concise callouts, which I sincerely doubt teams even do outside of tournaments. I have never played against a SWF with an object that watched me throughout every chase with teammates that never fell for my mindgames. Theoretically it's possible especially in bigger loops where they should have more time to react, but in practice it's not a problem.

3) Against Trapper, yes, it is insane and broken to be able to see where every trap is placed. Against Hag, good luck communicating her traps accurately enough and having a good enough memory that you can break her web faster than she can repair it without taking free hits and without also ignoring gens. She will wreck OoO users and non-OoO users just the same.

4) How do survivors get 10-30 seconds of heads up before any chase? You need to know exactly where your teammates are in addition to exactly where the killer is to even start calling that out. On many maps that is not going to be possible, even with good callouts, especially in the early game where that's most useful. You're only rarely going to get much more information than a normal SWF would already have. Maybe against killers like Deathslinger that are stealthy but not undetectable and that also move slowly, but if it's a Deathslinger there's no reason for him not to just tunnel the ######### of out the object because his 1v1 is ridiculous... I digress

5) If this perk has no downsides while being the strongest perk in the game, why are teams not performing better with OoO? Per the devs they're not. Is it so rarely used well that the solo queue adept Lauries are somehow erasing any positive impact it may have?

6) If this perk is really so OP, what is stopping you from tunneling and camping the object? Most teams will not rush gens as they should and will instead feed you a lot of free pressure, but even if they don't, this will just teach them that this perk results in terrible games, and they will eventually stop running it.

No need to reply if you're done, I just think this is more of a theoretical problem than a real one. Even god SWFs without Object are pretty rare at rank 1. I don't think I have ever played against a four-man SWF that was using it anywhere near to its potential, as in, survivors have never been hard to find and unreasonably god-like in a chase in a match with an object.

this thread is a gold mine, thank you.