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So when is spirit gonna get counterplay?
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counterplay? a few options.
1) dc.
2) ######### on hook.
3) p3 urban blendette and never be seen, do not touch gens and slam down a dead dawg or yamaoka offering for good measure. give her the 30 minute game she wants as a killer, they need time to find and kill survivors. :)
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So this is why I say that Spirit flips the script on survivor's! You said "it's a guessing game for the survivor" but yet 90% of killer gameplay is guessing and hoping so here's my question!
"WHY IS IT OK FOR KILLER'S TO GUESS AND HOPE, BUT IT'S NOT OK FOR SURVIVOR'S TO GUESS AND HOPE?"
Survivor's get spoonfed all the information they need in a chase to counter a killer! For example, if Wraith is at a mindgameable loop he flicks his camera and moonwalks 'HOPING' that the survivor makes the wrong read which makes it a 50/50 for him so that he can get the hit! But when he flicks his camera back around he can see that no matter what he does the survivor can just wait around the corner peaking for either his physical body or Red Stain, but this is fine!
But Spirit can stand still at a loop (which BHVR designed her to do btw) making it 50/50 for the survivor to determine weather they should go back towards her or not and 'HOPING' that they made the right call. But somehow this a problem!
I don't get it. I play survivor too and I enjoy playing against Spirit because she's not Shift + W and occasionally look backwards counterplay killer. Idk I guess I'm more focused on the fact that the game is 1v4 and not 1v1
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nurse is stronger without addons but spirit is stronger with addons
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She has plenty of counterplay, Iron Will and Spine Chill are massive counters to her. But if we wanna talk no perks, JUST USE YOUR BRAIN AND YOUR SENSES. Both sides are trying to predict the other when the Spirit phases. It's basically like Trolldiers in Team Fortress 2: both sides are trying to outsmart and outposition the other. The problem is that people have this weird obsession with running around a pallet for 9 years and anything that stops you from doing that is immediately boring. I don't get it.
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These killers that are so overbearing like Spirit was released when all maps were like current Ormond, larger with ample supplies of pallets for defending against the killer. You could even stealth play if you wanted to. Rotten Fields is now smaller, same as other maps, at least half of the maps have deadzones. Brand New Part could instantly repair a gen, you could needle yourself for an instant health state. Several survivor perks have been heavily nerfed. There has been a lot of nerfs on the survivor side. If the devs are satisfied with all of these nerfs, then it should be reasonable to nerf killers like Spirit, Huntress, Hag, and Freddy to be in line so they are now fair to play against. Right now they are way overpowered because their counterplay hardly exists and survivors do not have tools to make up for that difference.
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Someone should watch tru3talents video on countering her. His strat actually works, try it some time.
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That is why I said "arguably" because it depends on who you ask and if you're including perks and add-ons.
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I mean, Iron Will and No Mither do the same :P No Bloodstains and no Sound, even against Stridor. Just for the SMALL price of being injured all game. :O
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The time when Spirit first got nerfed was a good time, because nobody played her because every was like "She was gutted!"... Which is a common pattern for every Killer Nerf, once something is nerfed on the Killers side, this Killer is "gutted" or "Killer is unplayable now".
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Wjy not Iron Will, No Mither, and Off The Record just to make 300% (technically 250% :p) certain she'll never hear you! :0
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Not being found works for me pretty well.
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That's like saying the counter to a gen rushing swf is to just hook them.
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Holy shite, are people still whining over spirit?
Just think outside of the box and you'll see she has enty of couterplay.
Don't understand why people want simpel killer where they don't have to think when looping
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The only counterplay to spirit is hoping she is not a spirit main with 1000+ hours on her.
so good luck.
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To everyone who thinks that Spirit is broken or think that she has no counterplay. There are verious guides on youtube that explain her weaknesses. Also Tru3talent made once a whole video about that topic long ago and explained very well why Spirit is NOT op or broken and that you have more counterplay against her than most of the Killers offer against her.
Pls dont just blindly agree to everything you see and just call it unbalanced. Maybe think ahead and try to understand the other side (the killer's view) and apply your gameplay and skill to that. If you know how Spirit works, you will be able to loop her very long, I have done that in my case always.
I am not saying that Spirit is not a strong Killer, she is actually indead a powerfull Killer. But she definatly offers a wide range of counterplay and she has almost the same chances in the Phasewalk than you have as a survivor. If you dont pay attention to that, then it is your fault, not the Killers balancing.
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Never. We all know it.
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"Pls dont just blindly agree to everything you see"
Meanwhlle: "Also Tru3talent made once a whole video..."
Ugh.
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I didnt said I agree with his view, I wanted to give some options for ppl where they might look up what they need to know about that topic.
*Edit: Trying to list examples of counterplay would be too confusing without footage
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Ah ok. Its just like that especially his fanbase tends to agree blindly to whatever he says.
There are a lot of other Content Creators (even Killer Mains) who say that she is not ok. And there is really a lack of information what she is doing, while she gets all the information. Like, she does not even move grass, despite walking through it.
The last game where I really struggled as Spirit (but to be fair, I dont play her often, since I dont have fun while playing her), was against 4 Iron Wills and I am not using Stridor. And I still got a 2K out of it, meaning with Stridor, it would have probably been a 4K and those 4 guys wasted a Perk Slot. Let alone that I dont use PGTW or Ruin/Undying. And I am not really good at Killer IMO.
So when even I get a 2K despite the Survivors having the optimal Setup against me (all have Iron Will while I dont have Stridor), you can imagine what someone who is a little bit more skilled than me and/or is using Stridor can do.
But like I said in my first comment, I am pretty sure that she will get nerfed in the future, but I also think that BHVR fears the backlash from Killer Mains since those are always the loudest when something on their side is nerfed (even if it is only slighly, like with the first Spirit Nerf where she only lost the most obvious stuff in her Basekit and her most ridiculous Add Ons).
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To everyone saying that she does have counterplay get in contact with @ScottJund because as far as I know his offer of paying you to show him the counters to spirit still stands
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And again someone who says "Just use Iron Will". Stridor exists and I rarely see Spirits without Stridor, which renders Iron Will useless. And while Spirit knows all the time where the Survivor is (also because of Stridor), the Survivor has no information at all.
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She is one of the easiest killers to loop, almost as easy as nurse, my friend was complaining he can't loop spirit so he DCd when she was killer lol, but honestly after a few games against her it gets easy.
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That is the answer killer players get if they complain about genrush. "pressure gens" doesnt mean anything else then that.
Not every killer should be easily handled by one and the same game mechanic. . So in my opinion it is ok that some killers are not easily countered in chases.
The problem is, that for many people on the forums chases are the favorite part of the game. But that does not mean that is true for everyone, and it doesn´t mean its the only part of the game.
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Ye I get ya. Dont worry, I dont follow opinions based on others, I always built my own. I agree with you that there are some things like the grass that doesnt make sense. But in the other hand, if you play smart as survivor, you will be able to fake the spirit very efficiant. When I used to play, I mained spirit since she came out and I saw 95% of the survivors doing the basic stuff in chase. When I phasewalk, they just run to the opposite direction. Also they just throw down the pallet on their side and try to run backwards. These are just some examples of what obvious "jukes" most of the players do.
As I said, I do agree that Spirit is indeed a strong Killer and can go crazy, but this doesnt mean she has no counterplay. Something can be strong and has counterplay. These are 2 seperate things. About your game with the 4 Iron will's though, first to say, feels bad man, I feel that pain xD. Secondly you also might got 2 Kills cuz they messed up, I play without Iron Will and still manage to juke alot of Spirit's. Obviously its also a part of their mistakes not catching me, but thats the trick. Lead the Killers into mistakes, the person who plays that character is a Human, not a robot, so you can abuse that by fooling that person around to lead him into more mistakes.
I feel I explained that abit weird but I hope you might get what I mean.
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i main Nurse and i believe that spirit is like Nurse easy mode: she's almost mindless to play, therefore i hate her. As to counterplay, there simply isnt: a spirit with a good headset WILL hear you even with IW, especially if she has stridor.
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Anecdotal evidence means nothing at all.
For example, i am a survivor main, and play killer about 30% or less of my play time. Usually i play killer to do challanges and/or daylies. I am not a good killer, because i suck at chases (thats why hag is my favorite and "main" killer). But for the "break 15 gens or palletts" challenge i used the demogorgon, a killer i dont like, and thus don´t use often. I thought the portals might give survivors something to do, slowing down gen speed to give me time to damage more gens. I did not commit to long chases, just short ones.
Yet, i didnt only get the challange done, i got a 3k, with one hatch escape. I was playing a killer i am not experienced with, i didn´t even try, and still its a 3k.
Since my experience is as valid as your own, do you think the conclusion that demogorgon is more op than spirit is right? No, because anecdotal evidence have no statistical significance.
The other thing i dont get is the comment about content creators. These people actually play for a living. So i would guess that most of the popular are in the top 5% of players. Yet, the argument that the game should not be balanced around the top players is brought up time and again, especially after big tournaments where the top players show the actuall power of swf.
Why is it ok to use the top player when it suits your point of view, but its not ok if it doesn´t?
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Imagine you have 1 not dropped Pallet and the Spirit Phasewalks in that moment. What are the possibilities to do as a survivor? You have 12 in total. You are able to do 12 different moves and the Spirit now has to guess which 1 of these 12 things you are gonna do. You can drop the pallet and just keep running like nothing happened, you can drop the pallet reverse and run backwards, although these are very cummon strats so these wont really work so I dont recommend them. You can drop the pallet and slow vault back, you can drop it and fast vault back. You can drop it and run left or to the right, you can reverse drop it and just stand still, you can leave the pallet and just stay inside and wait what she does.... hell I think there are even more then 12 possibilities.
Now tell me, do you consider this as "no" counterplay. The spirit has a situation in this where she has to guess 1 of these outcomes.
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There are counters, you just don't know what they are. Go figure them out
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When the devs have stated that they specifically want less stealth and more chases the "don't get found" crowd are awfully quiet.
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i ddint know they stated that. do you have a link for me?
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Are we playing the same game? Maybe if it's a rank 20 nurse she's easy to loop, but not an actual good nurse..
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I mean, it is entirely possible that it did not have anything to do with their Perk Loadouts or with me not using Stridor. Maybe those two guys who escaped were just better than me and those two I caught were worse. In fact, most players in Red Ranks on both sides are not good.
I was just reducing that to the Loadouts, because it is the best case scenario against Spirit - all 4 Survivors dont make injured sounds while Spirit does not have Stridor. And honestly, I dont even know how the game was in total, I just know that I had 4 BBQ-Stacks and that I was like "Yeah, 4 Iron Will, ######### me I guess" at the end.
Regarding Content Creators:
I was not saying that the game should be balanced around them, because it should clearly not. If we balance around Content Creators, 99% of the players can basically quit the game. I was just saying that even Killer Mains who are good at the game are saying that Spirit is not ok. So its not like I am grabbing the most entitled Survivor Main-Streamers here to prove my point.
But I have to admit, it is always funny to see that most players want to balance around Top Tier Survivors, but dont want to balance around Top Tier Killers. I mean, if we want to balance around Survivors like no0b3, Ayrun, JRM or whoever (those were the first names that came to my mind), we should also balance around Killers like Umbra or ScottJund.
And if that happens, Killers will also not have a good time, because the majority of players on both sides are not really good (myself included, lol).
So balancing around Top Tier Players is wrong and will only kill this game.
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Imagine calling a killer that takes half the skill of Nurse mindless because the headphones are doing the killing!
Not every Spirit use's Stridor! I for one don't and majority Spirit's I've played against don't use Stridor
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Wasn't Stridor ment to counter IW?
"Survivor has no information" I'm sorry but, isn't that what survivor's do to other killer's? Leaving the killer to guess just about almost everything and making killer's take a 50/50 gamble in mindgaming?
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Spirit is the least fair killer out there. She has practically no counter play. NERF
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Basically this, you have a killer who mixes up the gameplay, but a lot of people only want loopy loop and when that isn't as effective its somehow boring and impossible to counter. Go figure.
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Survivor mains are a strange bung of people 😂
I really enjoy vs spirit, it makes it way more interesting.
It's a matter of mixing up your way of playing, thinking ahead and here i'am playing without iron will and still escape vs her 😂
I agree with you, they only want easy basic couterplay, if that isn't possible than than the killer is OP or the person playing a killer is a A-hole because they outplayed the survivors 😂
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Yea I did miss them, you have the link?
Has anyone done a comparative from November set last year? Those stats look even worse.
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Wait I'm confused, everyone is complaining about spirit for using stridor?
But doesn't she use it to counter iron will?.
Which completely makes her game harder than usual If survivors use iron will. which make it more of a guessing game for her with a shorter amount of information. But when she uses a perk that negates there perk giving back the information she lost it's bad?
Please tell me the issue on this.
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ALmost like having a killer that dependant specific perks being/not being used is a really stupid design flaw.
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the only counterplay i can think of, is try to rush gens and get out.
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A perk shouldn't be able to counteract a killer's power, there needs to be a counteraction that doesn't involve perks.
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exactly, and not to mention most spirits use stridor, which makes iron will useless.
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This is factual. I've seen that hitting and hooking works every time.
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Wow!
Who's gonna break the news to these forums?
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