When's killer's version of hatch coming?
Comments
-
Nah. As someone who gets frustrated as killer, and would love a bit more balance changes in the killer’s favor, nah.
There should always be a chance that the survivors can escape. If you’re one red rank survivor against a brown or yellow rank killer and three gens are left, there is no possible way you’re getting those done and escaping. All that’s left is to give up or draw the game out for no reason.
The hatch maintains tension at the end. It’s boring to have the last kill be 100% guaranteed for both killer and survivor.
(TBH I have this issue with 2 survivors left with 4 gens where there’s no way both could get out which discourages teamwork, but no one complains about this so it’s probably just me)
2 -
Lol no you didn't. Last I checked, you don't need a perk to m1 into hatch.
2 -
At ranks higher than yellow/green, they need perks to survive to make it to the hatch. Don't purposely misconstrue people's statements.
0 -
I saw an idea someone had where a hatch escape counts as a sacrifice for the killer but an escape for the survivor.
There would be less incentive to slug for a 4K (The emblems would be almost the same if you hook the last guy or he gets hatch) and survivors escaping through the hatch still count as an escape. Basically the hatch would be more of a draw.
This would also mean key escapes would be less likely to result in a depip on the killer's end.
6 -
When did everything in life become whine and ruin everything until we buckle and cripple it to my will because my diapers wet. Geez
0 -
I am all for buffing killer in general. As I explained, the objective truth is that there are too few "good" killers out there and this is evidenced by the huge queues for survivor and the terrible matchmaking for low rank killers. You have to make the game more tolerable for killers.
Removing the hatch is not the way to do that. Good games have variability, the hatch provides that. It's another objective for both parties in a game that desperately needs objectives.
The fix needs to come from gen completion time. The killer will eventually win, if it takes too long for the survivors to complete objectives. But today, even stacking all the perks to slow down generator completion, even a pro streamer killer will still lose 1-2 gens just getting across the map and hooking the first survivor. Then the killer has 11 more hooks to go.
Then once he knows where the survivors are, if he doesn't tunnel, 4 survivors on a small number of gens can easily finish those gens if the killer doesn't get a very quick (<30s) down. A lot of chases take 15-30s just to get a single hit, let alone a down. The game really strongly rewards tunneling, which is not fun for survivors, but it is absolutely necessary because the killer is surprisingly impotent when it comes to preventing objective completion. Especially if you aren't running something like ruin/undying, there is a reason it is the meta.
2 -
That's such an anecdotal cop out.
People remember bad experiences more than good ones. You act like a vast majority of your games are bm fests, when that's just your experience.
Don't act like sassing a word I used is any sort of counter argument. If anything it just makes you sound petty. You want to deny hatch for the people who are toxic, and you equate the overall performance of the team to the last survivor who never even got found.
It's entitled to believe you earned something before you actually did it.
2 -
This seems like little peepee energy. Killers are not supposed to always get 4ks. Getting 4ks is supposed to be a challenge. The killer version of the hatch? Um permanently locking the hatch by finding it first...
I've literally played two days worth of dbd solo survivor queue (because if it was swf i would say the killer complaints have merit) where every single killer had done two of the following:
1) camped a survivor.
2) tunneled a camped survivor.
3) camped basement hooked survivors.
4) camped last generators until 0% regression, essentially holding the game hostage.
Aside from the obvious of 4ks purposefully being a challenge theres advice. You are always going to be facing at least one skilled survivor. You can tunnel the F out of that survivor (essentially wasting time from the match) or you can focus on objectives. Hooking everyone else (at the expense of losing 4k if the skilled survivor is good enough).
2 -
we already have it, its "closing hatch"
1 -
No you don't, you need luck. If you go the right way and not the killer then you get hatch. Or maybe it spawns near you and you get it. Perhaps it spawns near the killer and you don't get it. Regardless, it's a 50/50 that denies the killer of the kill. If you want to bring things to increase your chances that's on you but people make hatch all the time without extras.
3 -
As I said before, hatch needs to stay as it only activates when the Killer dominates the survivors.
I'd argue some gates need to be closer, as killers with no mobility or detection power/perks have a pretty bad chance to monitor both doors at once before the survivor can open one can get out.
Gates in the situation where hatch is closed and its a single survivor should be all about the survivor tricking the Killer into thinking they're doing one door, or going to the other, not just getting out because the doors are 20 years away and physically impossible to defend.
1 -
Yea I'm gonna argue that you're asking for too much with that. If the game only scored on how many you killed and nothing else, I'd maybe understand. But if you're already dominating the match, you're already scoring high. The hatch is meant to benefit the survs, just like being generally faster as a killer is meant to benefit you.
I generally find that killers at higher tears are already keeping the hatch in mind and almost always closing it before a surv can get through (not accounting for keys). It's just a part of the game that a killer needs to keep in mind. Since there's already offerings for insta-kill, I'd say you can't add another option. Killers already have advantages that should make that job easy, so if you're problem is the hatch, I think you just need to change up your tactics.
2 -
Your one sided argument wouldn't even be taken into consideration, "remove the hatch" "remove hooks", you want no hooks? You want the survivors to have less of an advantage? Play Friday the 13th, your a killer, its your job to deal with all of the ######### survivors throw at you no matter how unfair, it just gives you a chance to shove a hook through their throats and show em who really has the power, who really has an advantage.
I get it genrushing is an issue, it's been a bigger issue since blight came out, since then it seems like gens go by way quicker than they used to, hatch does also add an unfair advantage especially with keys, I believe they should give maps the aura reading abilities keys have and just remove keys from the game completely so that hatch would be more fair or maybe even make it to where hatch cant open without keys. They should also have a built in mori that could be used on survivors on 3rd hook like with pyramid-head, it would definitely be more fun as both killer and survivor if endgame started after the last gen was completed, I'm a survivor main btw so my bias is leaning towards survivor but I'd still like more of a challenge.
My final point is more important than everything else I've said.
The thing is the devs are trying to please us by adding new content and constantly changing things up so that their always something interesting to look forward to, although that doesn't always end up being what happens they still work really hard to improve this game and make us happy, they were working on adding new animations and updating the realms along with some other stuff but it's kind of hard to do that when they gotta stop to fix issues in the game like the most recent ones with victor and oni, by the time they would fix these issues and finish what they were working on we would have already asked for more, their job is endless and I'm surprised theyre not grey from the stress this has to be putting on them. Im as guilty as you just look at paragraph 2. Its December a time for giving not getting. Give respect to those constantly dealing with our #########.
Sorry about all the cursing, it's a bad habit, I cant go too long without cursing. :P
1 -
A point about keys, I made a suggestion once that keys only spawn in-game and cannot be taken out.
The idea is that there is always a chance a key could spawn during gameplay, but not guaranteed until there's a final survivor. Once the final survivor is determined and the hatch spawns, any remaining open chests are closed and items are reshuffled. One of these chests is randomly predetermined to have a key, the rest are brown items. Appraisal would have no effect to this decision.
The hatch still opens but a survivor who has been extra sneaky the whole match still has a chance to escape if their evasion is on-point. The killer would likely know where the chests are so there's still the chance that the survivor gets caught out. This creates the opportunity for the survivor to escape via the hatch when doors spawn far too close to reliably escape, and hopefully shortens the EGC by allowing a survivor to leave the game because the game has unfortunately skewed that particular map setup to be impossibly in favor of the killer.
I think keys in general should be replaced with another item, but my ideas fall short after that.
0 -
This is sadly true, I have spent the majority(90+%) of my hours in dbd playing Legion, Even playing well, the survivors generally don't care if im anywhere near them. I swapped to nurse to give her another shot and realised survivors are much more scared of her, even when I was playing terribly.
0 -
I'm a red rank survivor and killer. I'm here to say this logic is fairly flawed, not just from a normal gameplay perspective and entitlement perspective, but from a general design perspective.
The hatch as a mechanic (outside of keys) does not ruin a killers game in any respect. It does, however, give a survivor an ok chance at escaping against good/toxic killers, a chance to escape if they solo queue with a bad team, or a chance to escape when the gate spawn is impossible. Even with this in the game, the killer is far more likely to find hatch and close it than the survivor is. They're faster and they have nothing at all to worry about. If somebody wants to hide for hatch, fine whatever. They handed you a 3k instead of playing the game.
In my experience, I close the hatch easily 75% of the time if I don't find the final survivor (I carry/escort more survivors to hatch than they escape by themselves). As a survivor, I get the hatch escape maybe 50% of the time in a race for hatch where killer doesn't know where I am when the third dies. I know where to look for hatch I suppose, but I absolutely close it as killer more often than I find it as survivor. That doesn't factor in how often I 4k with hatch open because I know where the last survivor is, or how often I get sacrificed with hatch open because the killer knows where I am. Endgame hatch is almost always killer sided.
Another big element you seem to be missing is that, um, the game is supposed to be fun? Not just for you but for survivors too? It's honestly not super fun as a survivor to be the last one with bad gates and basically have no possible way to win. The win condition for a survivor is really just to escape. Hatch races make the endgame 1 v 1 fun and engaging for both sides and it's also pretty fun to carry fun or cool survivors to hatch when they play well. Beyond that, as a mechanic it keeps either side (particularly hiding survivors) from holding the game hostage in the endgame. If killer finds hatch, EGC starts and game over in 2 minutes. If survivors finds it, hooray we can move on.
To your argument about pips: as a killer, you can double pip on a 3k. 9 hooks, use your ability, find lots of survivors, kick gens and interrupt heals, you are looking at a 4 iri/3 iri and a gold game. As a survivor, it is next to impossible to play the game normally and double pip without escaping. Hell, sometimes you depip even if you escape if the killer isn't very good and doesn't get hits or kick gens. It's literally impossible to double pip if no player loses blood during a game and you team plays at max efficiency and skill. Maybe pips don't matter to some people. The point here: a killer 4k isn't really that much more rewarding than a 3k plus hatch is, whereas it is immensely unrewarding, both psychologically, and in terms of how the game gives badges, for survivors to die. Behavior has to keep the game rewarding for both sides, they just do. A couple of kills feel very rewarding for almost all killers, completing 4 gens and dying does not feel the same for survivors, even though they have done a lot of the objective. Plus, survivors exist by default at a disadvantage. Statistically, all red rank killers combined have an average kill rate of just under 3k every game. That is a hard and fast victory and a pip or double pip every game on average. For survivors, rough estimates are around 30% survival rates, lower in lower ranks. So 70% of the time survivors are at a maximum single pipping, but mostly safety pipping (or depipping). Hatch is there to increase the odds and make the game worth actually playing if the killer 3ks. Otherwise, it's basically game over (especially with Whispers and now the Twins being around) if it comes down to gates. As a killer, I pip almost every game and double pip fairly often. As survivor, I maybe average +1 or +2 from where I started every 7 or 8 games, maybe more? The game has to be rewarding for survivors too and hatch is a way to do that. As for key? Well, that's a whole other post (I think keys are unfair myself, same with moris).
You aren't entitled to 4k's, and 4k's shouldn't be easy to get. Survivors are entitled to have fun and to escape as well, and I'm sorry that 1 person of 4 escaping is ruining your experience. It's a shame that the game is designed to be fun and rewarding for 100% of the players in every match and not the 1% of entitled killers who want 4k's every game.
0 -
Killer's hatch is the 3 other dead Survivors.
1 -
Mate, just came out an achievment of doing ' full gen and getting out alive without perks 8 times. I did it easily in one day at rank 1 playing solo. Is easier than getting David's adept what already is not even that hard.
1 -
Honestly my suggestion would be, do not spawn the hatch until there's one survivor left. Period. No hatch popping up after gens are done so keys can be used to get everyone out of the hatch. Keys make zero sense to me anyway though because most (not all obviously) keys will open the hatch - and what's the point of playing if a survivor can just go "lolkey', open it and all 4 of you/us/them jump out.
It shouldn't be an easy out for the entire team. That's my only issue with keys. That and toxic behavior but that's another post.
3 -
You're reasoning behind this is entirely selfish and only works for you. So no. Just no.
0 -
That's evil 😂
0 -
Mate, being disrespectful doesn't help your point.
Everyone knows that shouldn't be easy getting a 4k, already isn't. What he is talking about is the scenario that sometimes you play well, you destroy the survivor team, they barely do 1 gen, and if you don't play the boring game of slugging the third to get the forth, the game stops being about your skill and start being about a luck escape. That actually is unfair. The Killer is punished even when they play well.
And why there is not a thing on the killer side, like, if the 4 survivors are alive and they open the gate the entity to give the killer a chance blocks the gates for 2 min?(Not saying that this one would be balanced, just an exemple)
If you are one of those solo survivors that thinks that is always the randons the problem, why don't change the hatch to spawn only if you did at least 1 gen + 1 save, and had a chase with the killer before.
Anyway, you were missing the point, is not entitled when you won the game, using skill and knowledge, and the game just gives your enemy a way out. That he wants a 3k everygame, but some games he would have a 4k and it is stolen on an unfair manner.
And you really don't sound Like someone that play both sides, I can play with no perks on surv and get out without hatch most of my matches, did the new achievemt (escape with no perk, doing at least 1 gen, 8 times) the day it came playing solo. Playing as Killer is already way more stressiful.
Or you know how survivor sided the game is, or you don't have that many hours on the game, or you doesn't understand balance, or you are not good at the game, what is fine, most aren't, or you are actually dishonest just trying to keep the system broken cuz it benefits you and your friends the most.
1 -
Hate to tell you, but killer already survives every match.
1 -
It's not really about being disrespectful, but a matter of feeling like some killers are appearently more entitled to a perfect victory when they're winning than survivors are entitled to have fun. I maintain that the race for hatch is a more fun way to handle the endgame 1 v 1 than immediately patrolling gates, especially when the gate spawn is impossible to win for a survivor. It keeps both sides engaged and it gives at least 1 survivor a chance to salvage a quick or blowout game. I've never had a problem with it as a killer, and I am far better at killer that I am survivor.
Escaping perkless as a survivor really isnt that impressive, I don't suppose. I seldom run exhaustion perks or DS because it's boring. I too have the escape 8 times with no perks achievement. It's not a huge deal, friend. I'd certainly say survivor is easier to play perkless than killer, and I agree it's less stressful in general. But I dont agree that the game is survivor sided because frankly I don't lose half as often as killer.
As far as balance goes, allowing 1 of 4 survivors a chance (not a guarantee) to escape is not imbalanced. Again, Behavior has to keep the game somewhat rewarding for both sides. Besides, hatch has counterplay. The killer can, and more often than not will, find hatch and close it. The idea you are proposing wouldn't have counterplay, it would just extend the end of the game and force survivors to hide and wait out the timer, just like Blood Warden does. Maybe if the killer mechanic somehow involved a way for survivors to shut it off it would be fair, but the idea that hatch is an end all be all, unfair, uncounterable mechanic that ruins the game is just absurd. Yea, it's annoying when you want adept. But honestly, that's kind of the only time if you aren't being darling about merciless every game, for some reason.
Just to rehash: hatch helps alleviate issues with individual experiences with the game. Good survivors can get screwed in solo queues by bad teammates, it's boring and punishing to force them to play cat and mouse around gates if they want to escape. Even then, I'm sure plenty of killers would come out and say "Exit gates are cracked, the last survivor should have to finish the gens" (it's already a popular opinion to force resets on exit gates because 99ing is appearently a broken, unbalanced mechanic). Let other people have fun and just enjoy the race at the end.
I think hatch is fine as is. I think its enjoyable as a killer and as a survivor. I do not mind giving 1 of 4 survivors a last chance in the endgame. If I really want the 4k for adept or because the team was BM as hell, I'll just slug. Hatch isn't this inaccessible mechanic that's impossible for killers to counter, and I don't understand why we are acting like it is?
0 -
The hatch is actually a pretty solid design and a perfect example of how an asymetric game doesn't mean everything has to be equal.
Case in point: What is the survivor equivalent of preforming player elimination on the killer? There isn't one, because the role of the survivor doesn't really make that make sense.
Likewise, while there are MANY killer sided problems where they get the short end of the stick for no reason, the hatch isn't one of them. The hatch more exists for the benefit of solo players to allow the game to retain a skill based element even if their random teammates are total potatoes, than to just rob the killer of a kill. Solo survivors have a need (Specifically to be rewarded for excellent play and still be able to win if they do well, even if their team stinks) that SWF and killers don't have. For SWF, you can curate your own team, so hatch mostly exists as a dummy prize because the team as a whole lost pips if the hatch is in play (barring keys, which ARE broken). For killers, your a team of one, everything is on you and because you don't depend on anyone you don't need a 'release valve' for if you do really well but your team held you back.
But for Joe Solo who ditched chases well, did a gen or two, and found their team wasn't doing anything? Or who sees their team is just constantly hook bombing and its clear that everyone is going to die 2 minutes in without doing a gen? The hatch is critical. A solo player who is good and plays evasively trying to avoid detection can easily hammer away 2 gens on their own, spawn in the hatch as people are playing musical chairs on the hook, and get out most of the time, meaning that trying as a solo with a bad team still means something, while without the hatch that player is just screwed through no fault of their own.
I will say it might make sense to make Hatch escapes less negative for the killer emblem wise (it is... REALLY not good that if a killer does 'too well' the hatch escape often robs them of their pip, when the design of the hatch clearly favors the survivor in this scenario and doing dumb stuff like slugging to search for the 4th/hatch isn't fun), but the killers don't really need a hatch equivalent.
Likewise, better concession systems for the killer may be warranted. Anti-snowball stuff too (Survivors have a TON of that in the form of stuff like BT, DS, unbreakable, ect) could be nice as base kit for killer and help make endgame less demoralizing. But I don't think the hatch existing with no killer equivalent is a problem.
0
