The Nightmare Should Be Used As A Reference For Changing Other Killers
Comments
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The issue is his base kit has too much to work with. He's simply low risk, high reward.
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Nah if we going to use other killers as examples we should use like blight or oni, and if were talking about reworks only, Bubba is the best possible example you can give with doctors rework being great too.
But i dont understand why you would give one of the most hated killers as a good example. The game should be fun so use the fun killers as an example.
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What part of Freddy's kit takes skill? His snares shut down every loop so you can just run straight at survivors with zero mindgames, and... That's the only part of his kit that isn't given to him completely for free. Everything else is passive. And, on top of that, he is the best user of regression perks in the game thanks to his ability to teleport straight to generators. Which also doesn't take skill or effort, it's literally just look at a generator and hold a button. And it can be faked almost constantly with very little effort.
And, even ignoring all of that, his counterplay is the opposite of what people want. Slamming gens and hold-W chases - wow, super fun and engaging for both sides. Also not valid in solo que, so he pretty much gets even easier wins there.
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I disagree,there's nothing wrong with characters that are easy to pick up and learn,but in my opinion strong killers should always take a lot of skill to learn.
I don't really like that you get the same amount of raw strength like hag,oni,blight (killers that take a lot of time) just by playing freddy (required almost no time to learn)
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If they MUST change him; make it a small adjustment; remember what happened last time they nerfed Freddy? Something as simple as making all clocks wake you up (but maybe less clocks on the map overall) would make avoiding his annoying bullshit much easier.
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Addon-less old billy is how they should have balanced the game around. But they gutted him.
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If the only usable characters in said role are high skill then it will drive away any new player from even trying that role and do you want to have even longer survivor queues?
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Your response is a perfect example of Survivor entitlement; If you knew how to play Survivor well, you would know map layout, how to loop, and to always be on gens. You would know how to perform safe saves (which Borrowed Time is a crutch perk when Survivors don't know how to perform safe saves).
A good survivor wouldn't get hit once. Especially against a Killer that doesn't have a power. A survivor doesn't fall asleep on their own for 60 seconds. A generator only takes 44 Seconds to be completed. That's an extra 16 seconds. You're telling me you can't wake up in 16 seconds and then run the Killer for a full Generator. A Killer needs 12 hooks to kill everyone. You have 5 generators to get everyone to escape (Mathmatically that's 1 hook per gen, equals 5 hooks). You're telling me you can't do that against a Killer with no power, and base movement speed? Why are you getting hit by a Killer with no power and base movement speed in the first place? Do you not know your map layouts? Do you not know how to loop properly? OR IS THE GAME TOO EASY FOR YOU TO LEARN. (Fake Pallets are literally useless, even against average survivors. The fact you mentioned them just tells me you don't know enough of the game to even be commenting. Have you never learned Pallet spawns? Do you not track pallets? You realize there is only 8-12 on any given map right? You know that they are distanced at least 3 chunks apart. Wait are you saying you don't even know what a chunk is in Dead by Daylight? God damnit, do Survivors learn nothing now adays?)
Dream Snares take 3 seconds to place, and comes with sound, and visual notification. You're telling me you can't move to another loop, or create distance in 3 seconds? Are you also telling me you can't loop towards your clock, and mindgame the extra time needed to use that clock mid chase? IS THE GAME TOO EASY FOR ?YOU TO LEARN.
And
It litterally says right here on his card "For each survivor in the dream world, the cooldown of Dream Projection is reduced by 15%"
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So far I think this thread has done more than just proven that Freddy is the most balanced Killer in the game. It has also proven that the game is too easy for Survivors that they are barely learning the game at all, and it's so bad to the point that it's grown a disgusting amount of entitlement and misunderstanding.
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he is at a good power level the problem is he is just so easy to play, there isn't much in terms of strats besides well done gen tp's.
Like im all for buffs but don't make the killer brain dead easy to play and good, it's why he has such a high kill rate it's because it's hard to do bad with him.
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So what is he very good at?
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"Dream Snares take 3 seconds to place, and comes with sound, and visual notification. You're telling me you can't move to another loop, or create distance in 3 seconds?"
He doesn't lose speed when he puts them down though. So he is basically a 115 that is putting down an anti-loop everywhere you go. You get 1 full loop on a good Freddy, if he knows what he is doing with snares you can't loop him any more than that. Running from tile to tile doesn't work either because he still gets bloodlust when he uses snares. Eventually you have stay at a loop because if you run to the next he will 100% get you. Running tiles also increases the chance he finds another survivor and gets more pressure on the group. I run Thana and a rope for this exact purpose... when I find survivors grouped up I hit them all, now they are all asleep and injured. This increases the value you get from something like Pop, as that 25 seconds to earn back that progress just turned into 32 seconds. Those extra bits of time add up and lead to snowballs.
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you've written your post as if Huntress doesn't exist and as if basekit Hillbilly wasn't a beacon of fun, balanced gameplay until the devs made him feel disgusting to play as and against.
Your post blindly makes assumptions about the reasons survivors don't like Freddy without any basis in reality.
I certainly can't support your post's idea.
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I'd prefer if more killers were raised to freddy's competency at least. I want diverse difficult killers that can apply real pressure when I play survivor. It's so much more fun to beat an actual threat than winning because you can exploit a " fun "design.
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No, Freddy isn't balanced, he's easy enough to play that people like you don't have any issues playing him, so you CALL him balanced. And the reason that good survivors have no issue against him is because Freddy is so powerful, but easy, that people who would ordinarily be around rank 10 get boosted to rank 1, where they get destroyed because they only know the basics of the game, while some red rank players have thousands more hours than them. Oh, and guess what? Freddy is boring, because he doesn't have to work to do anything at all, so the majority of the Freddys you get at red ranks will be too boosted to have fun with. Same with spirit, but the difference between her and Freddy is that facing a good one is fun. And don't say that I call strong killers boring either, since IMO the most boring killer in the game is legion.
But that's fair. Bubba isn't very difficult to play, so he shouldn't be able to deny the survivors counterplay. That's why spirit needs to be changed along with Freddy.
Oh, and before either of you call me a survivor main, I am a rank 1 Nurse main, and a rank 2 Feng main. I play both sides, but I play killer much more, so you could call me a killer main. I play Freddy a lot, too, so don't say that I don't have any experience playing him. I don't really play Bubba though, since I prefer Billy.
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I was kinda waiting for some sort of mindbreaking tips. Instead it’s “waste time waking up and hide”
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Hes overperforming and needs to be nerfed
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So you main the strongest killer in the game, yet you're keep saying spirit and freddy need a nerf.
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Indeed, you don't read the others.
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You have an interesting opinion about what ballanced means.
Good killers have no issue against survivors. Feel free to check out good killers win streaks on twitch who goes into the hundreds of 4Ks without loosing a single match.
The truth is: You are most likely not good enough. Maybe, just maybe its not the games fault that you can not do it, when others can.
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Nurse takes WAY more skill than any other killer in the game, and thats why she's so strong. And I don't necessarily think that Freddy nor Spirit needs a nerf exactly. Keeping their power levels but making them harder to play would also be fine. I just find it BS that ANY killer can even get close to Nurse-level power without taking very much skill. The reason why Nurse is the strongest killer in the game is because the people who main her have spent thousands of hours losing games and slowly improving with each one, until we are too good to beat. Freddy doesn't take skill at all, and yet he isn't that far off from Nurse-tier. Same for Spirit, except for the fact that Spirit does take a little bit of skill. It isn't fair at all that easy killers can be that powerful. But that being said, if they brought old base kit Nurse back (Not the add-ons though. Those are gone and I'm glad to see them that way.) I'd be fine with Spirit AND Freddy staying the same, because then Nurse-tier would only have Nurse in it again, as it should be, but she would also take less skill to make it fair that other killers take less and can reach her tier.
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I mean Otz never beat me once, so whatever.
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Or it's more likely that the majority of the Survivor playerbase is not good enough. Until I reached the point I am at. I was always really confused why Survivors did more than half the things they did. Then when you get to my level with Killer it's rarely a game Survivors are making mistakes at all. That and the 8 minute que time for Killer isn't fun, because the matchmaker can only really put me against SWF now.
Which if you knew more about the game you would know that SWF is considered in matchmaking.
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Freddy is backwards because hitting you shouldn’t FORCE YOU INTO HIS NIGHTMARE. Think about it. Him physically hurting you puts you to sleep, but hooking you wakes you up?? 🤣
Basically the way Freddy works now... Is PUTTING TOO MUCH PRESSURE ALL AT ONCE. What I mean is when killers hit survivors the injured status is applying pressure. Freddy does way more just by hitting. You’re put into his dream automatically and you’re subject to all his powers. His teleport is potentially amplified. You become oblivious, making BT useless. Freddy is fully rewarded just from hitting people. IT SHOULDN'T WORK THIS WAY.
To balance Freddy his power should simply work in reverse... Meaning everyone STARTS the trial in nightmare. When Freddy hits you, you blow a gen, or get put on the hook you wake up. Seeing Freddy while awake should make Freddy appear and disappear intermediately. Wakened players can wake up sleeping players. Every time you wake up you will fall back to sleep faster each time until you inevitably stay in the dream forever until he gets you. Because that is what he does in the darn movies. He attacks you in the dreams forcing you to wake every time until you’re stuck in his nightmare long enough to be killed due to sleep deprivation.
If his powers work the way they did in the movies... Him hurting/scaring you wakes you... This would mean Freddy starts off very strong. As he puts pressure on survivors by hitting them they are given the opportunity of no longer being subject to his dream powers during a chase. At least until you fall back to sleep again. If you don’t hurry and thwart Freddy before you stay asleep permanently... Like in the movies, he can kill you easily.
Idek what the devs are thinking half the time anymore and I’m not even a diehard DBD fan.
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I would agree if the skillcap wasnt so low and he didnt have "everything included package" in his kit.
Good survivors can deal with him sure but god that dosent make it any less frustrating or annoying to deal with
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I don't find it annoying at all. He's just an m1 Killer with no power.
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I'm just wondering when they're going to add a way to play as the Old Freddy for those of us who want to.
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So just to repeat your own words and how i interpretate them: Survivors on red ranks causes this extrem statistics because they are bad? Therefore in your opinion, the people who player killer are better? Do it get this right?
But you also say that at your level survivors dont do mistakes at all? Which level is this? I hope we are not speaking about rank 1. If we do... well... i thought survivors are so bad? You contradict yourself unless you talk about tournament level / 0,01%. If thats the case, the obvious answer is obviously that this game should and can not be ballanced around the top 0,01% by any means.
Correct me if i am wrong tho, but it looks a lot like you contradict yourself quite a bit here.
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So people who don't have thousands of hours should not have an access to killers who can compete with genrush, organized swf and bad map design? Everyone should go through the same process as with the nurse now? How does it make it balanced? There are casuals in the game who don't have that kind of time to invest in the game.
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i do not want all killers to be like Freddy.
id much rather have Freddy be tuned down a notch to be more like everyone else - ya know, with an actual weakness survivors can exploit and use against him.
from a survivor perspective, Freddy is just boring. slap some anti gen perks on and use slow down add ons and it literally doesnt matter how good you are, you're gonna beat a vast majority of players just with that.
he just has way too much of an output for the little input he requires.
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Yawn you're petty attempt to change what I've said to fit your narritive falls on deaf ears. The matchmaker takes more than just rank into consideration when matching. Rank is used first to decide which groups you should face which is 3-4 above/below. In those players it matches you under a number of other conditions.
Also how mentality toxic is that line; "To just to repeat your own words and how i interpretate them" . Have you considered running for office with that kind of gaslighting, and manipulation? Just to make up the idea I contradicted myself, when I never have. Survivors don't know how to play the game, and it shows.
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Exactly No Killer should even take this much, not even as much work as Freddy to get good at the game. Especially when Survivor is learning how to hold m1 on gens, and run at pallets - then equip an ontorage of second chance perks, and you are considered "the best". The imbalance is disgusting, and the entire reason why this game has such terrible balance choices.
If the majority of Survivors knew how to play the game right, Freddy wouldn't be even doing half as good as he is.
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No he should not be used as any sort of blueprint for buffing killers. A lot of killers could use buffs, but strong killers should have downsides and/or take some effort to learn, none of them need to be turned into someone your cat could 4k with on her 2nd or 3rd go.
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Good survivors do have an issue against him. And bad survivors do too. Because he’s OP when played correctly. Way too easy. He needs to be nerfed
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So you refuse to answer my questions?
If thats the case, fine.. but dont start a topic if you are actually not up for discussion.
Otherwise:
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xEa, TheButcher doesn't answer the questions. He can't. He ghosts my messages because he couldn't answer with my proofs on a subject.
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Well,there aren't many bs maps left for killers (Haddonfield,Fractured Cowshed,maybe The Game),thanks to the map reworks.
Also,legit genrush and sweat squads barely exist.It's super rare to encounter that.
I think what @hillbillyclaudmain69 meant was that strong killers should require a good amount of time and effort to learn (e.g nurse,oni,blight etc.),which i agree with.
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Playing survivor might be easier than killer but it's not as easy as many people claim to be.
Which your second point pretty much proves.The majority of survivors you encounter aren't really good at the game.
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Of you don't have slowdown game goes too fast. There's a reason I main freddy
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The fact there is not a lot sweaty swf/genrush squads is true. But they do exist, so the possibility does exist and until this issue is resolved they should not nerf killers who perform well. Yes you can deal with genrush by starting to slug at 5 gens without seeing how team plays first, because by the time you realise youre being genrushed it will be too late. But that's not the direction the game should be heading either
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Just make it easier to wake up then he loses most of his tools; that's the simplest way to balance him.
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Wait you commented on your own comment
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The things Freddy can do are totally reasonable.
The problem is that not only does it take no thought to do, the devs actively impede Freddy players from making larger plans for their power by hiding key information about his own power (sleep timers and the auras of snares).
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- On a 45 second CD, and you can only use it to go directly next to gens so it's not applicable in chase 95% of the time.
- If the survivor just stays at the loop, then yeah. Also, no. You don't get Bloodlust, they explicitly removed his ability to do that.
- Yes and no. If you ######### up and let Freddy hit you before the save, he ignores BT. If you manage to get past him and unhook while awake, BT causes the unhooked survivor to be "unsleepable".
- We're talking, at the very most, a 12% action speed slow. For a purple and a green add-on. Less than old Thana, an effect so small that the annoyance of a red action bar did more to help you than the action slow did.
- He's not a stealth killer. He has a red stain, a 32 meter terror radius, and a 32 meter lullaby. Asleep or no, unless you're oblivious IRL, you're given ample warning of his presence.
Freddy isn't OP in the slightest.
He's just really easy, and most survivors are just really bad.
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I suppose that this is just semantics, but wouldn't that be a high skill floor, and not a low one? As someone who isn't particularly familiar with the terminology of "skill floor/skill ceiling" this is a genuine question
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XD
Literally everyone in this thread has proved you wrong, even killer mains, and you're still repeating the same entitled survivors nonsense. Cry me a river, pal. Freddy is getting nerfed no matter how much you whine.
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Apologies for the troll comments I posted, to answer your question what exactly your looking for in other killers?
The devs if I am not mistaken have mentioned they are tuning him down a bit (so far no issues with that unless people want freddy currently the way he is???). I do think other killers need to be adjusted to be more fun and have no huge drawbacks (wraith, trapper etc my opinion mind you). I cannot agree with freddy being used as a reference. Quite a decent amount of people have already commented it, so I have no intention of debating whatsoever.
I will say that there is a reason people do not like playing against him, not because he is op. My opinion on why the devs are tuning him is because this is a majority of what people want (solo queues, new players, people like me who think he has too much in his base kit). Let's just hope its not something major as what they did with billy.
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Uh what
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All the freddy rework did was take a fun to play killer who made you think a bit to play right(spoilers, it wasn't just putting one guy to sleep and tunneling him) and turned him into a boring brain dead killer who can just spam pools to get kills then have the game set up your teleports for you with it being directly to a generator for some reason.
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Freddy is definitely not op I've been playing this game 2 years and Freddy is one the only of the few killers that has counterplay if you're awake his power is useless, when he teleports to a gen you know he's teleporting, outside remember me and blood warden and stares in front of the door he has no endgame pressure. yes freddy is one of the strongest killers but he's only strong when there's gens. Every survivor can complain he is no fun to play against but as a survivor main myself who mains Freddy everyone is wrong. Yeah you're objective is to do gens but guess what you can do 5 gens you still only get a max of 8k BP. Could Freddy use a few tweaks yes he does but nerfing him isn't the answer. Feedback is great but people who play the game have no idea how to balance the game.
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