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So when is the nerf to Camping and Tunneling being announced?
I only ask seeing as Decisive Strike is receiving a pretty hefty nerf. While countering two of the most abusive strats/tactics/mechanics (whatever you want to call it) in the game.
I find it very interesting that the developers took issue with Pyramid Head's cages, and nerfing those to the point the killer cannot remain in vicinity of the cage, or else the cage gets sent to a different location.... and yet hook camping is somehow... fine?
Oh right, I know what you're thinking.... "but there are perks that can help against hook camping!" ... You mean the very same meta perks survivors are forced to bring in order to have a decent chance at not playing sacrificial survivor for the entirety of a match? or maybe it's the same meta perks players keep complaining about that remain as "meta" before quickly asking themselves why that is... Huh funny how that works.
Look, I know these small incidental 'tactics' people complained about were not the best part of DS, but can we also acknowledge how Camping and Tunneling should be addressed in the same fashion? They are not always used to pull some type of 'strategic' maneuver, they are often abused and/or solely used for Griefing purposes.
I have played around 5k hours with both survivor and killer at rank 1, and no I am not sharing my credentials as "proof" that I am right, but that I have been subject to these type of tactics (DS/Camping/Tunneling).
Again, if you truly care about the "health" and "balance" of the game... then you will hopefully also see the other side.
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Until other stuff get changed about survivor. camping and tunneling won't Ever be changed my guy,
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The nerf to tunneling and camping is when you get good and do gens.
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They have attempted something before but gave up on it. So my guess is they know it needs to change. Or why would they bother even attempting it?
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So let's forget bt the nerfed ds unbreakable soulgard tenacity headon for lockers adrenaline
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Camping is not the best strategy so does not need to get nerfed. And new DS is all about anti tunneling so all is good on both fronts.
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We all know it's not but it doesn't stop killers from abusing it. So since they changed DS because of it's 'abuse-able' feature, I am bringing up the very thing DS is countering that is also abusable.
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Oh right, I know what you're thinking.... "but there are perks that can help against hook camping!" ... You mean the very same meta perks survivors are forced to bring in order to have a decent chance at not playing sacrificial survivor for the entirety of a match?
You can literally say the same about the killer gameplay.
At higher levels of play you are also forced to run some form of gen slowdown in order to stand a chance.
This game revolves about bringing the right perks
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Never. At times camping & tunnelling is a necessary strategy in order to get the upper hand when a game could otherwise be thrown and lost.
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If you are looking for a thread to trash on this is not the right one for you.
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It is. I agree.
However, the Camping and Tunneling I am talking about is the type where the killer has no warranted reason to use them.
They do it because they CAN. That should be changed.
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Well just look at the bright side, at least you can still use it as the anti-tunneling perk it was supposed to be. 🤣
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Doing gens bodies EVERY KILLER but Nurse. (Depending on her skill)
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The thing is,how are they supposed to do that?
They tried some things because they know it can be frustrating to deal with but those thing were easily able to be abused so they had to scrap these ideas.
If the devs intend to change DbD to a 12 hook game then we would have to change a LOT of other things to make it happen.
As you see,it's waaay to complicated to even try changing it.
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What exactly do you mean?
I actually don't agree with that at all. I can agree on it from a killer to killer perspective, because someone like Spirit or Billy doesn't need Ruin as much as someone like Trapper or Pig, for example.
The point is that they are not doing anything to address core mechanics that force survivors to have to bring the same perks in the first place. Instead they are nerfing the perks without addressing what's also broken on the other side. Also, they have already announced a trial warm up coming "soon" so that should alleviate some of that concern.
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For one, I would make it work ONLY if survivors are holding M1 on a gen. That's all they had to do.
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By that same logic they don't do anything to address why Survivors do the same things over and over again.
Edit: look I'm not saying that there's not a conversation about bad design loops. But this was not meant to be a reasonable or fair discussion about a perk balance. I don't think this thread will be around for much longer.
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I disagree that survivors are "forced" to bring in perks that help them fight against camping and tunnelling as naturally it's their choice if they want to bring those perks or not. Plus, in my games I rarely get camped or tunnelled, of course it's different for others but I've never felt forced to bring a perk simply to stop the killer tunnelling me.
And what do I do if I'm put against a camper and/or tunneller? Camper, I suck it up as it's only a game and there are plenty more matches for me that will probably be different. Tunneller, I try my best to utilize loops and pallets as much as I can to waste the killer's time and allow my teammates to repair generators.
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Sorry but removing camping might fall down a slippery slope like deathgarden did.
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Campers will camp unti it pays off.
Its 2021 and it still pays off.
If you missed the latest dev video, they made it pretty clear they do not consider camping, tunneling, slugging as a problem.
Maybe its time to do some gens.
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Of course it's the survivor's choice. I never once questioned that. It is a known fact that you simply cannot counter Camping and Tunneling unless you use perks like BT and DS. That's why they remain meta.
I am glad to hear you are one of a few cases that doesn't get Camped or Tunneled. Still doesn't take away how it can be abused.
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You talk about it as it would be something really simple. It's not, a good healthy change that wouldn't negatively affect neither each side is extremely hard to create for both. You can't just slap on a number change that benefits one side and ruins the game for the other and call it a day, it was tried and it didn't work.
But if you have any clever GOOD ideas on how to adress them, start writing.
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What point are you trying to prove here? If camping and tunneling is justifiable when the match is coming to a close (which it is) & not at the beginning of the match, then how are the devs supposed to make a fix? How are the devs supposed to know if it's okay to do it or not?
I've very confused as to how you want them to fix this.
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Time to do gens and what? Give the killer a 2nd kill because you didn't have enough time?
It's time to stand up and speak up.
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First of all, changes are not only about about whats strong or not, its about whats enjoyable too, having 4 Blendettes Urban Evading at the edges of the map refusing to do gens is not very effective and if it was very prevalent it should be changed (they did, they made Claudette easier to spot). Camping is one of the most frustrating experiences this game has and is way more prevalent than other infuriating things that do get changed.
Second, against Solos is one of the best strategies there is, I play Solo queue only and camping is very effective against a lot of people because Solo lacks information, in a SWF the victim can and will tell the others to keep pushing gens so the Killer will be punished with 1 Kill because if you stay on gens without pressure you can get them done in the 2 minutes it takes for the guy to die but Solos have to go and check one by one if a rescue is possible losing too much time on gens to be able to punish the Killer effectively.
Even if every Solo goes to check, sees the camper and decides to go repair gens they have already lost 30-40 seconds each (20 to go check, 20 to get back and resume repairs) and that assuming nobody attempts to trade hooks or wastes time around waiting for the Killer to go away.
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Sounds like whining to me, unless you actually give an idea to deal with camping or tunneling.
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Considering many ideas have been brought to the table already, and some of my own with BOTH sides in mind. I am not holding my breath.
I was always for an adjustment to DS, AS LONG as they also adjusted Camping and Tunneling and gave survivors more options, aside from bringing the same perks.
And if I do have clever ideas I do bring them up. That's what the forums are for right? :)
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I'm going to address you the same as I did a previous poster.
If you come here to try to trash on threads, this isn't the one for you.
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How do you nerf a behavior?
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Didn't come to trash, just saying that you're complaining without giving a solution. If you had an idea, people could actually discuss with you, but instead you make a thread that is boarderline, bait
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I never specificed which part of the match it was.
If there are 5 gens up and a killer just feels like camping not acknowledging that there are other survivors to chase, that isn't being "strategic", that is abusing a mechanic that exists with 0 downsides for doing so.
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For one, I would slow down the survivor's struggle time if ALL other 3 survivors are holding M1 and the killer is making themselves idle at the hook.
That's one.
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Same message applies.
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Then specify when it's fair & not fair to you, because we can't read your mind. You obviously don't approve of it at the beginning of the match, no?
With that being said, what do you think the devs should do about it? If you can come up with a constructive fix for it, then more people might agree with you. I just don't see how it's possible given the fact that the devs won't know if it's necessary or not in the match.
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Alright, so a conditional comradiere. This would be good in a swf but probably wouldn't ever have an affect in solos
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I've read through a decent chunk of those ideas and usually there are some major flaws to them.
Main issue with tunneling/camping is matchmaking. If you put two equally good players against each other, they should take healthy amount of time in a chase before going down depening on who played better. Unfortunately, matchmaking puts potaotes vs good killers far more often then it should and they get tunneled and camped because they're easy prey and their teammateas also play into it.
I would love to see more anti tunneling mechanics but not one that waste time but one that helps survivors end chases and get away as that is the only way to not get tunneled. Juke the killer to the point where he loses LOS of you, a killer tha can't chase you can't camp/tunnel you.
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You know, actually "giving" a 2nd k to the killer is still better than letting it 4k.
Sorry, but im not feeding campers.
You can stand up, yell as loud as you can, but it would not make your statement good or right.
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most of the time, an issue with camping and tunneling can be traced back to your own fellow survivors, not the killer. Stop blaming the killer when your team mates don't know how to play the game and sandbag you.
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The devs tried to implement a "Hook Camping" nerf, it didn't work.
That just shows that they are in agreement that it is something that should be addressed. I am not here to try to "prove" a point that has already been proven. Everybody already knows that Camping and Tunneling can and are abused during matches.
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it was tested Waaaay before. then it was hardcore abused by survivors who would just wait next to a hook with the killer right there, It does not need to come back At all
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🤦♀️I've been trying to get you to come up with a fix these last 2 replies because I'm genuinely in agreement that it's abusive when done in the beginning of the match although the survivors can just do gens.
Think. Think. Think.
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Thing is even when survivors are good at chases or playing optimal, I've seen red rank killers still abuse mechanics like Camping/Tunneling/Slugging. I've seen survivors get slugged through the end of their dying state timer simply because the killer felt like it.
My main point with this thread is to speak up about how the current changes to DS only reflect a healthy balance for one side, without acknowledgement of the problem that continues on the other side. There are currently 0 anti-tunneling mechanics (not perks) to help survivors, so it would be nice if survivors could get some type of perk-less option so they didn't feel inclined to bringing the same perks.
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Nobody is asking for it to come back. I used it as an example that developers wouldn't attempt to do something if they didn't think it was a problem. It wouldn't have made it past the drawing board if that was the case.
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You answered your post by yourself if you have time to work on a gen be it 15 sec or 30 sec how can the killer be tunneling you, if the killer is tunneling you off the hook you won't have time to stop and work on a gen, that's what the DS change is about if you are truly being tunneled off the hook its still the same 1 min DS you have now but if you have time to work on a gen, do a totem your not being tunneled and if you stop to do it in the killers face that's on you. Simple question If you got unhooked and spent 30sec working on a gen then got downed were you tunneled, if so why do you think that this is the reason for the change to DS so survivors don't spend 45sec on a gen just for the killer to get hit by DS even though they didn't tunnel.
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There are some ways to abuse Camping/Tunneling/Slugging and I would like them to be adressed but it usually doesn't work. For example how do you stop killers from 4 man slugging and letting people bleed out ? He managed to catch all 4 survivors who failed at evading him, he won basically and gets to decide on how to kill them. Only thing I can think of in that situation is to give survivors option to concede and auto-die after bleeding out for 2 min.
I rarely use DS, still almost never get tunneled unless I'm asking for it, even that much less hard tunneled. When that happens to me, I take it as a learing experience ot better my looping skills and usually I get to waste so much killers time that he loses from tunneling me.
Tbh I want more juking mechaincs in the game. Something that would help end chases trough hiding so that tunneled survivors can escape the tunneling killer and get another chance. Unfortunately, I don't think devs would be willing to add something like that as it would take a lot of work and wouldn't make any money for them.
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They said in the stream they're never doing that because the game would get boring and sometimes camping is a legitimate strat and if people wanna tunnel they can. You've just gotta get better at dealing with it. Also there are perks to deal with both of these things that help make you harder to catch or harder to camp or tunnel.
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Not a nerf just removing the abuse
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Tunneling is, in my opinion, a very difficult thing to nerf properly. Tunneling can both be a toxic thing to do and a the correct thing to do depending on the context, and I can't imagine it being easy to come up with a way to properly come up with a system that mitigates only the toxic tunneling.
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In my opinion the most awful frustrating version of tunneling is the one that comes with camping and proxy camping, someone gets down, gets unhooked, Killer races back (usually a very high mobility Killer like Hillbilly, Spirit, Blight etc) and goes inmediatly after the unhooked without any chance to get away from the hook. I believe if they manage to fix proxy camping and camping they will fix the worst instance of tunneling.
The mild version is not that frustrating IE someone gets down, gets unhooked, gets to safe position, healed, goes back to work on gens with someone, Killer spots them and decides to go after the guy he already hooked is a bit tilting but at least you dont have the feeling of being cheesed by a scummy strategy, especially if it starts to happen when there is only 1 or 2 gens left.
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2 minutes on the hook is more than 3 gens for a smart team, friendo. And thats not counting the time that first chase and hook takes.
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