Can we nerf Spine Chill please?
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I'm not saying that they should be removed. I'm saying that survivors rely way, way, way too much on them, seemingly need to have an indicator of the killer's location that requires no skill or effort put in.
I would be fine if they removed the bloodstains and scratchmarks, because killers wouldn't have to rely on them if survivors couldn't detect them from a mile away.
If they made killers actually intimidating then maybe I would be okay with it. They could probably just put survivors into first person to do it.
There shouldn't be perks to counter entire powers. At all. Period.
I've studied game design and the horror genre for at least five years and counting. The only kind of fear (which there are multiple kinds) this game can illicit is "Horror." Horror is a mixture of shock and possibly disgust. Cheap. Easy. Becomes boring and predictable fast. Think of jumpscares.
The strongest kinds of fear are terror and dread.
Terror is fear about what you don't know. Fear of the thing you heard lurking outside. Think of Alien, or FNAF before everyone knew just about everything about the game.
Dread is fear about what you do know, and is going to happen, but hasn't happened yet. Fear of the thing about to look under the table and gut you alive. Think of A Silent Place, or the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who.
Neither of these are possible if you both know the full capabilities of the monster and have the means to counter them perfectly.
Stealth killers could of been actually scary. Scary in the sense that you know that they're there, but not when they'll get you. Hell, if you removed the Terror Radius and red stain, the game could be almost as good as the trailers. Imagine a game of cat and mouse instead of ring-around-the-rosy.
Think of the Stalkers from Subnautica. You could fight them, unlike most hostile creatures, but they were still scary because you didn't know where they where at any given moment.
Think of the RE2 remake. You always had an idea of where Mr. X was whenever he was a threat, but he was still scary because you couldn't stop him in any way.
Both of these are good horror and good game design. I could easily put terror or dread into a 4v1 game. It's been done before.
But no. If anything, the killer should be stressed to hell because they can't stop the survivors. The survivors should feel little to no connection to the game itself, and should have a quick, easy task and the ability to counter or stop anything the killer. Immersion? What's that?
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No don't nerf
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SPINE CHILL DOES NOT NEED TO BE NERFED
spine chill is a counter to BBQ and Chili, which is a perk every killer uses especially in red rank. Spine chill isn’t as over powered as BBQ either, because it doesn’t show auras, it simply lights up. It’s not even a common perk used amongst red rank survivors either, it’s almost always one of the first perks you get when you’re in the lower ranks (i.e rank 20). It helps new players learn and understand, because without it they’d most definitely hide as soon as they heard a heartbeat either way, making the game very killer sided which isn’t fair. Games should be 50/50, where you’re unsure of who’s going to win. Besides, even when running spine chill you’ll always get caught no matter what because the killer is always faster than the survivor and bloodlust is a thing. It’s a head start in a way for newer survivors. If spine chill gets nerfed then so should BBQ. I play both killer and survivor, and think the perk is just fine. Why try and fix what’s not broken? 2 survivor perks have already been nerfed, we don’t need the game becoming so unfair to the point where people don’t want to play survivor anymore. What are we gonna nerf next? Dead hard? Unbreakable? DS again? The game has many other problems such as the hit boxes and many many more no need to make people even more upset. Which people will definitely be upset and not want to play anymore which is already happening because of the DS nerf and the new update with the new UI which about 90 percent of the community dislikes, even the poster boy himself Noob3 is upset with how things are going.
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imagine wanting to nerf SPINE CHILL....LUL
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So then I guess you also have an issue with Calm Spirit being a perk that counters a killers power (Doctor, and the screaming part of Freddy Snares)
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btw you got so many killers to play why pick stealthy killers if you want to counter spine chill ?
it is the same as i want to pick this one killer but survivor cant pick this skill.
same argument as kids
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Oh don't worry, I was ignoring your primary argument originally not because I can't make a point against it but because it was just garbage and I didn't feel the need to address it. Did you want me to go piece by piece and rip it apart? Because I can gladly do that. First of all:
It isn't very hard. But there is little to no reason for me to have to.
Considering you literally wrote and made in bold a huge portion of your "argument" trying to explain why Spine Chill is a bad perk, it seems there is a big reason for you to have to do so because it clearly impacts your gameplay.
THERE ARE VERY FEW OTHER GAMES, INCLUDING IN THIS GENRE (4V1 HORROR), THAT BROADCAST THE LOCATION OF THE POWER ROLE TO THE TEAM. THE REASON IS SIMPLE: THEY DO NOT NEED IT.
Okay? Would you like to list some of these games? Because if we look at the "More Like This" section of Dead by Daylight's steam page your argument falls apart extremely quickly.
Even if we go into the top sellers of Horror on steam, you have absolutely nothing to support your argument. The fact of the matter is in the horror genre that Dead by Daylight encompasses stands atop the totem pole and more or less is alone in that nature. Unless you wanted to use something like Friday the 13th, a game which broadcast the power role location to you.
Fact of the matter is, DbD is more or less the only game of it's kind that hasn't failed for one reason or another. To say that other games do successfully what DbD can't isn't a strong argument to make considering most of those games are struggling to survive as communities.
IN THE EVENT THAT THE POWER ROLE UTILIZES STEALTH, THE TEAM SHOULD HAVE TO LOOK AROUND FOR THEM, AS OPPOSED TO HEAVILY RELYING ON OBVIOUS, BLATANT AUDIO AND VISUAL CUES THAT HAVE LITTLE TO NO REASON TO BE IN THE GAME.
Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe a killer's Terror Radius is a weakness? And that getting rid of it is a little strong?
Wouldn't you then agree that killers who's whole powerset involves getting rid of a major weakness of the entire class would have an advantage of sorts over the competition?
If you then have the advantage over everybody else because people can't tell where you're coming from, what is so wrong with survivors equipping an optional perk to MAYBE have a leg up against those killers.
You seem to forget that this is a multiplayer game. Not sure if you knew this, but the world does not revolve around the role you decide to play as. There are other people who are also playing this game alongside with you. You are trying to kill them of course, but they deserve an equal chance as you do.
FURTHERMORE, IF THE POWER ROLE IS SACRIFICING THE ABILITIES THAT COULD BE AVAILABLE TO THEM IF THEY CHOSE A DIFFERENT ABILITY, THUS CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY COST, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THAT ABILITY, WITH THE CAVEATS THAT ARE ENTAILED WITH CHOOSING SUCH AN ABILITY.
They're not though. I mean I've explained this several times. Just look away when you're approaching a gen if you really don't like Spine Chill. You are not sacrificing any abilities. You are willingly not adapting to the game that is presented to you and would rather complain.
Doesn't matter if you put it in bold or leave it plain, it is the same argument I've stepped all over time and time again.
IF THE POWER ROLE HAS AN ABILITY THAT CAN BE CHEAPLY AND EASILY COUNTERED BY AN OPTIONAL ABILITY ON THE TEAM, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT GIVES OTHER BENEFITS, THEN BALANCE IS IMPOSSIBLE BY NATURE.
This is just wrong, see my response to the previous line you wrote.
IT IS SHEER INSANITY TO THINK THAT IT IS FINE TO CRIPPLE THE BENEFITS OF AN ABILITY THATS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO REMOVE AN UNUSUALLY STRONG ADVANTAGE WHILE KEEPING THE DISADVANTEGES OF SAID ABILITY, AND IN THIS FORM, IT SHOWS EXTREME FAVORITISM TOWARDS THE TEAM ROLE.
But it's not insanity to completely ignore all arguments opposing yours and continue to say the same disproven thing over and over again expecting something to change? Didn't Farcry 3 say something about this? Oh well...
Anyway your abilities are not crippled, just look away until you need to stalk or whatever. Loads of stealth killers have no problem doing this, not sure why it's an impossibility for you to. Spine Chill is there for counterplay, so you therefore have to counterplay the counterplay.
This was meant to be a horror game, if you remember.
No I'm pretty sure this is meant to be a multiplayer game as much as it is a horror game. That's probably why you can choose which role you get assigned. That's probably why you can bring perks and items into the game to help you.
It's almost as if the survivors have the ability to prepare a loadout beforehand to potentially counter whatever they may face in the realm. It's almost as if this was done on purpose.
Stealth killers complaining about Spine Chill is like Spirit players complaining about Iron Will. Boo Hoo, you actually have to try when you play the game :(
If you don't like the fact that the other team should be allowed to have an equal chance of succeeding than you do then I'm afraid this isn't the game for you. Either that or you should just switch to a different killer.
While I do believe survivors are extremely overpowered, the ability to equip Spine Chill or even Iron Will to counter killers is very far down the totem pole of problems the side has.
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I've studied game design... for at least five years and counting.
Lmao no you didn't. How can you have studied game design for 5 years and still complain about counterplay while refusing to adapt
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Thank you for acknowledging my primary argument. I still have points that I wish to bring up, but I very much doubt that we will reach any form of agreement.
I felt like I was talking to idiots the entire argument, and I believe the feeling is very much mutual.
I plan getting this post closed soon, due to the fact that evidently participating in intelligent conversation is not my strong suit.
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Spine chill does not counter killer powers. Your power isn't your stealth, its your stalk/exposure. Piggies power is her lunge/dash. Stealth is a tool you have in order to use your power at close distance. You can still use your powers even if survivors know where you are. Spine chill just means those easy gen grabs are not going to be a thing unless the survivor is not paying attention. The only killers with a true counter to their power is Hag and Trapper. Both powers can be disabled. Myers and Ghostface can still get stalks off. GF can 99 a freaking stalk and can stalk in seconds so if you're used to only getting gen stalks, change up your playstyle.
Honestly it just seems like survivors and killers want any perk in the game that forces them to work harder completely removed. No need to compare DBD to other games. It's far from similar to other games in the same genre.
The reason that Spine Chill stands out to you is because you're used to going undetected and fully stalking a 2 man squad on a gen, but when a survivor has sc and you crouch to the gen no ones home. GF range is insane. Find a building or hill to stand on. The deadzones in most maps are huge and prominent. There is no where for survivors to hide from stalk. Even when gf came out they added about a billion trees to every outside map. Adapt. We all have to.
Post edited by feechima on3
