New Survivor will be LGBT
Comments
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I mean base game had :
- 1 white male
- 1 white male with asian roots
- 1 black female
- 1 white female
- 1 white female from Sweden ( i consider her base game since she came like 2 months after )
People could say : yeah that's only one black woman for 4 white people. NO : the game "offers" such a diversity that is beyond the color of the skin, diversity in country, diversity in lore, diversity in age (even tho i still would love to be able to play a female survivor having the age of Bill :))
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Every form of media has a political message. It's not something you can avoid, you can't write a story or design a game in some apolitical bubble. Everyone has a political agenda, even if that agenda is just something as simple or seemingly undeniable as "human life matters", it's political because it enforces or suggests certain political ideas. i.e. if human life matters, then premeditated murder should be a crime.
You can't design media in a political void - anything you create is created through the lens of your worldview. You can dislike the message of media, or dislike the way it is presented, but every form of media is shaped by the ideas and values of the person making it. This message doesn't make something inherently terrible, or worthless, just as it doesn't make something inherently good or valuable - it just makes it the product of the environment it was created in.
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That aside, you didn't answer my question; what political message are you concerned about being added to Dead by Daylight?
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Well, thankyou for actually continuing maturely, it's not something that can be expected out of a lot of members of community.
I actually live in England on EU servers, I think there's much more racism here than on NA servers.
I honestly agree with a lot of what you are saying, one thing I will say though is that a large amount of people (not the majority, but still) who are outwardly showing annoyance towards the matter is because they don't want forced inclusion, or inclusion at all (depending on the persons world view). I personally also want a game health update but I'm definitely the first to advocate for inclusion if the option is there.
I certainly understand your pain in the colour-blind situation, being red blind myself I've found a lot of annoyances with that but I'm just glad a colour-blind support option is coming even if it was born out of a pr crisis.
While I don't doubt that if they are making this character explicitly LGBT+ it is an attempt at a cash grab as long as it is down well I do actually think it will go down well with a large amount of people, but if it's not god knows the repercussions BHVR is gonna feel lmao.
Balance wise though I think as much as it's important all these situations needed to be separated because it isn't the same people working on these things. That's definitely meaning though they should be doing more work and releasing fixes and balance updates because the whole team isn't working on making new cosmetics and character lore. That though is a debate for a whole other post.
I think in the end people are so hyped for this character's possible step towards ACTIVE inclusion because we don't get much with this game (as we all know) so if we get a ball we take it and we run with it because it's the best we're gonna get. It's also hype like this that might make BHVR realise this could be a good step to take in the near future if they aren't doing it now.
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Do you guys seriously care about a fictional character's sexual orientation? I'm sorry but I find this extremely silly.
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Do you seriously care about what other people care about, even if it’s just the sexual orientation/identity of a fictional character? Even though you could just ignore it and move on with it not affecting you in any way or form?
i am sorry but I find that attitude way more silly.
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I want to know why people care about this stuff? Especially in a video game and in a game like DbD.
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1) Being LGBT is not political, it has nothing to do with the political beliefs that someone holds. A person's political standpoint can be chosen, sexuality can not.
2) If race, gender, and body type can be represented in a game, so can sexuality, you wouldn't tell POC that you don't want them represented in a game because it would be "too political".
3) The devs have already confirmed the sexual orientation of many characters (all of which heterosexual), there is no reason for them to hide the sexual orientation of those who aren't heterosexual.
4) The devs have stated themselves that they want to add LGBT representation in the game, they support all of those in their community (a large portion of which is also a part of the LGBT community).
5) YOU may not care about it, but the game wasn't made for YOU, it was made for everyone, LGBT people included.
6) Religion is not a valid reason to discriminate against anyone, we are all people just trying to live our lives, if you cannot respect other people based on the fact that they are anything other than heterosexual, that's your problem, not theirs.
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oh i understand ^^ sorry i didn't mean to be rude in any way ^^ I mean i know that i don't even fit in any of the LGBT categories so yeah i feel ya ;)
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Especially in a game like DbD it’s pretty normal to care about it.
we already have a very diverse cast of characters with different traits. There are already many mentions of straight relationships as well. Nothing of that contributes to the gameplay or changes it but it was here from the beginning. The lore and appearance of the survivors is -along with the perks which are not bound to the char- is the only distinction between them whatsoever.
and there are people that like to have chars in such a game they can relate to, some like to relate to appearance, others to hobby’s or jobs or even sexual orientation/identity. Why they like to relate to them nobody can really answer, everybody has a different reason. LGBT people do tend to like this more because they experience exclusion/discrimination their whole life, even in our modern age.
and again the best argument: it doesn’t affect anyone negatively in any way. Literally, there is NOTHING substantial against inclusion.
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You are on the forums as well, so that statement seems accurate. But I digress.
"Yes whilst the quality of the game is important so is social progression and inclusion"
This "Social Progression" you speak of, (which I'm genuinely inclined to ask if you just learnt of), is laughable. You mean to tell me that the wellbeing and livelihood of people in the real world is influenced by their most shallow and inconsequence traits, (their race and gender), being put onto fictional characters and is linked to their acceptance in society? Shall we solve the problem of homelessness, domestic abuse, harassment, and every other man-made problem by making dozens of ham-fisted games based on each subject?
You do not need a virtual avatar to be seen and respected. You only need confidence in yourself and the will to improve. I sure as hell don't need a collection of pixels to feel justified in my existence. And if you feel otherwise then I highly recommend you work on fixing that.
"Also it doesn't need to make interesting gameplay. DBD actually has tons and tons of story shown by the tome and lore sheets and all the cutscenes"
If a game is not interesting or fun people will not play it.
DBD has an admittedly interesting story but piss weak lore. The archives, the lore sheets and cutscenes are lore. Not part of the overall story of the game. They are backstory for the characters. And very poorly written at that. The only reason why people still play it today is because of the unique gameplay, even despite all of the terrible balance decisions. The percentage of people who stay exclusively for the story and not the gameplay are considerably smaller than those who keep playing for the gameplay. If you feel this point needs evidence, consider which action would make the game lose more players:
- A - Removing all characters, perks, and maps.
- B - Removing all lore, flavour text and cutscenes.
"If you have balance issues or bug issues take that to the balancing team and the bug fixers, not the character design team"
Funny. This implies that anyone on either team, (if DBD even has a dedicated team for fixing bugs), cares about player concerns. And is competent at their job. But that's besides the point.
I wasn't intending to get anything in the game changed with my initial comment. I was remarking how people very much like yourself don't seem to care about the core issues with the game, (that are guaranteed to be only made worse in the next patch), and instead focus on superficial aspects of the characters.
"Irdk what you mean in relation to anything else you've said with the last sentence (especially since you become about ten times more intellectual in that last sentence alone)...
I'm really not sure where you're getting anything intellectual from. I was just repeating my point again. Allow me to break it down.
To care more about the pre-written traits that your interchangeable collection of polygons possesses...
(Caring more about your characters identity...)
- rather than the quality of the gameplay they're presented in...
(Compared to how good the game you're playing is...)
is a reductive mindset.
(Is pointless.)
"but (assuming you are a straight cisgender person because that's certainly what you put across)...
Excuse me? Did I have a seizure mid-sentence and forget the part where I mention anything about my own sexuality? Who are you to assume anything about me when you claim to want acceptance? Your hypocrisy is palpable.
you have never understood the need or want for representation in the respect of your identity but i think not wanting people not to care about what is being put across to a large community (which is that whilst up to speculation everyone is straight until explained otherwise) is a rather reductive mindset on your part.
I don't play video games to fill some shallow, ego-driven hole in my heart that can only be filled by having my least valuable attributes displayed by an imaginary character. I play them to have fun. To explore ideas and scenarios that are impossible to do in real life. I'm sorry, but your mindset is just disgusting to me.
You would ignore every single fantastic aspect about every single video game, the stories, set pieces, mechanics, the music, in favour of having less straight people portrayed in them?
I genuinely don't know what to say.
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I am sure it will be so. We'll get something like this. I'm looking forward to!
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That's bullshit, we don't need to be represented by our demographic to connect with a character or the material. That's like saying black people couldn't understand or identify with superheroes because most of the justice league is white.
Whatever happened to seeing a character that was nothing like us, discovering their motivations and fears, and connecting with them on that level....
It's fine for their to be a trans character, but please stop being dramatic.
I'm sorry, because this shouldn't be funny at all... But it's pretty ######### funny lmao
I guess if we wanted we could say Legion is the most Trans-friendly and completely ignore he's supposed to be other people... That would have been a bold representation of a trans character as killer.. Why do Trans and LGBTQ characters always have to be displayed as good or honest or even on the right side? I'd much prefer a nuanced villain for a trans character
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And we have nothing in the world to disprove that, so I believe so too.
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Chill out, plenty of people loved that game, including me (and I wasn't much a fan of Tlou1) and I'm not a lesbian white girl or a humong transgender child. Cut it out, most people were mad about Abby killing Joel, don't bastardize that and make it about identity politics exclusively
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I know people loved the game but you’d be lying if you said there wasn’t a chunk of people who hated it solely for the representation
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That's bullshit, how could anyone be mad that Ellie was gay when that was already made clear in the first game (which the vast majority loved)
They hate muscly armed Abby because she KILLED JOEL, the fact that she was so muscular was just something to be mocked in the light of letting some unknown character kill off their games ICON. Now I didn't had, I didn't even like the first one that much, there was too much TND ######### going on in all media for me to care. But I enjoyed TLOU 2 more than most games I played that year.
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No I wouldn't, because those people who hate it based on LGBTQ only hate it because of how it was presented. We'd already obviously come to terms with the fact Ellie was gay, that scene with the bigoted old man was hella pander.
That sex scene with Abby was also awkward, and that was a straight sex scene.
The only people who say they hate it because of representation - surprise surprise - were trolls, who didn't even aknowledge the first game. I don't remember a single review saying they hated the gay scenes... Not to mention if we're being honest, lesbian relationships are, like, the easiest pass for gay representation in the first place. Most straight homophobes aren't even that pressed about lesbian women. They usually hate trans or gay men if anything.
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You really really really love dry humping this comparison to LGBT representation with race and it doesn't fly AT ALL.
Race has a visual component. Sexuality is not. Sexual expression is not tied to any particular sexual orientation. Dwight could be gay for all we know. You don't "see" gayness, so trying to compare an LGBT character to one like Adam or Claudette or Feng is disingenuous.
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to everyone saying it doesn't matter:
Correction- it doesn't matter to you. To some other people, being represented in media is actually massive. It shows that yes, you're normal, you're a person, and you deserve to live (which considering some of the ######### I've been told before, is a pretty big thing). So whilst you may not care, other people do and it makes a difference to them.
and to everyone talking about pandering:
I didn't see you say pandering when Zarina or Elodie or any other non-white character was added. I didn't see you say pandering when straight relationships were introduced into the game and have been since The Last Breath. I didn't see you say pandering to fans of media with Licensed Chapters. I didn't see any issues with it then, so why is it only an issue when it involves the sexualities of characters?
My existence isn't political, and shouldn't be treated as such. It's not politics. It's not 'shoving it down your throat'. It's someone's life. And it's normal.
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You are very incorrect in assuming I wrote everything I did just to demean someone else. And your summary is grossly oversimplified.
But since this whole thing as clearly stressed you out I'm just going to write what I mean in the barest possible way:
I have 0 zero problem with LGBTQ characters being put into the game.
I have a massive problem with the game's bloated and buggy content, and people's attitude that because the new character might not be straight their addition should be welcome despite the further instability they will add to the game.
I'm sorry my arguments distressed you. My intent was to convince. Not belittle.
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It can still be important to the character’s story though.
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It shouldn't matter to anyone. You, me, everyone, does not need their existence validated by fictional characters.
To tie your importance to how much your most superficial traits are shown in fictional media, is to reduce your importance as a human being to just a product of what media that surrounds you. This is extremely unhealthy and self destructive.
I don't care about the sexualities of the any of the characters in this game. I care about it's quality. For yet another update to be added in, regardless of what sexuality the characters will have, just breaks the game more and expands its list of issues.
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BUT THINK OF THE COSMETICS
2X THE COSMETICS POTENTIAL
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Why would that be disrespectful?
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I agree, but it shouldn't be what defines them
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Correct, it shouldn't matter. But it does, because people still get bullied and harassed on the basis of their identities and how they express themselves. So until this is no longer the case, an LGBT+ people are still fully normalised (I mean, for ######### sake there are still countries where if you're openly gay you can be put to death), representation is needed.
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I think we both agree that being bullied and harassed based on factors completely out of your control is bad.
But how is an update to DBD that involves a (possibly) non-straight character going to help in any way? This seems like an issue well outside the bounds of video games.
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Now they could potentially be harassed in-game based on it, too!
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I think you have this wrong...I'm not advocating for me but for others. I'm a straight female and DbD gives me plenty of representation. I'm advocating for others, and some of them are friends, who aren't so lucky. I want them to have the opportunity to feel included, too.
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Well, seeing as I'm a straight guy with little to no knowledge on the subject, I'll throw in my two cents on the matter.
For people saying "they need to take time to fix the game", they won't. They simply won't. Whoever runs the dev's schedule simply does not give them time to do anything but make new content. Complaining about a possibly LGBT+ won't change that. So what does it matter if people get the representation they want? From what I have seen, people want actual representation, not just "Gay McGee". They just want an actual character who happens to be gay. Not a character whose entire thing is being gay.
For the people saying "it doesn't affect gameplay", well, neither will them being LGBT+. The lore of the character doesn't affect gameplay, so why even bring that up? All it serves is to make people happy or give that skin your using more character.
For people saying "it would be pandering" this entire game is pandering. Most media is pandering. In a media-driven culture like the one a lot of people live in, everything is pandering. If BHVR wants to do it to make the game more inclusive, which they seem to want to do, it doesn't matter. Could it be to make more money? Yes, but everything is.
If it really doesn't matter to you, why even say it at all? Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it won't matter to someone else. I just don't get the backlash these threads get. Just let people be happy with the idea, jesus.
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Glad we can at least agree on the first point.
It's less so just DBD, moreso wide-spread representation. Having LGBT+ characters in media that everyone consumes (like, for example She-Ra was incredibly popular among children and featured LGBT+ characters, as did Steven Universe) normalises it for everyone. If it's completely normalised then said bullying won't be an issue, because everyone will view it as normal, rather than incredibly abnormal (which is, unfortunately, still the case in many places in the world today). It's not exclusively DBD will change the world, but it's a step.
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And there's an in-game report system for people who do this which gets them banned. I'm well aware because I've gotten people banned for telling me to, in less polite words, go commit the die, and who've dropped the f- and n- slur to me 😘
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Sure but I mean harassed as in tunneled or camped etc, or just BM'd more than usual. Would be difficult to report someone for that as there is no evidence they did so based on the LGBT character.
Based on the amount of slurs I see in chat on this game I wouldn't be surprised
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I can deal with getting tunneled/camped/BM'd. I'm used to it; it's practically every match I play solo, after all. That doesn't get under my skin; if they want to be a prick because of a character I'm playing they can go right ahead. It's like tbagging, doesn't make a difference to me, and just makes it more satisfying when I outplay them.
IMHO, an increase in BM is worth getting LGBT+ rep.
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Since the first point was the only one I have made I'll respond to just that.
The devs will never have enough time to properly patch the game if no one complains and sales do not drop. For all of their faults the devs have been shown to respond if enough backlash is received. Giving them any lenience for any reason will just be used as an excuse to continue on their currently schedule. I will continue to state how flawed it is until they change it and begin properly fixing the game.
It's not like there's much else I can do anyway.
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Would showing LGBT characters for the sake of showing them, rather than because they add to the media they are apart of, not make them seem irregular and work against normalising them?
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Correct, which is why people have been asking for proper representation, not the TokenGay#46. It's why people have wanted BHVR to put it into a tome as something discreet instead of it being their entire personality. I think this tweet says it best:
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People have complained and complained and complained about the lack of health patches. DbD desperately needs a health chapter, that I can agree with. I just don't think it's ever going to happen.
I think the mistake a lot of people make is they assume the Dev's make all the decisions when they more than likely don't. All the creative decisions, sure, but somebody higher up, likely an investor or some kind of financial director, just makes them push out content. This is a job. The devs are employees, with schedules and bosses. Part of me hopes the devs actually want to put out a health patch but simply can't because of whoever tells them what to do. Complaining is the only thing we can do. Maybe I'm being a cynic, and enough complaining will change things. I doubt it. Fixing the HUD is a much simpler thing to fix, as is adding stuff like colorblind modes then devoting a whole major patch to health.
Then again, I could be wrong.
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I only wonder who will voice the new survivor and if they are going to be full LGBT and hire a real trans to voice the character or a woman for the voice acting.. it will be very funny an interesting to hit her and hear a feminine boy voice 😜. Will be additional points to Behaviour for adding immersion 😅
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What made this hilarious to me was as someone with a sexuality toward muscular women Abby didn't even blink on my radar.
When Kristen Nun gets put in a video game, then we can talk about muscular women.
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I was coming at it from the players view point. Obviously BHVR will be focused on the financial end. Nothing wrong with that, they are a business after all. That doesn't mean they can't also be trying to do something nice.
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All I ask for is a sweet thang like Lala Escargot to tell my woes to.
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How is it laughable
I'll reply two a few of your paragraphs in one and just say that although a set of pixels that represent something doesn't give validation (if it does to someone I agree that should be fixed), but the fact that it presents that idea as something that isn't alien or wrong.
When I said it doesnt need to make interesting gameplay you seem to have misunderstood my wording.
I'm saying backstory or gender/sexuality shouldn't need to create interesting gameplay to be of importance.
I personally care very much about the game's core issues but I know they aren't solved by the people who do character design and their backgrounds. Just because the game has other issues doesn't mean I want all the teams that don't balance/bug fix to slack and put out nothing or terrible content.
I say you become more intellectual in that last sentence because you managed to more perfectly summarise your point with clearer intent than the rest of the essay you wrote.
Perhaps I was wrong to assume you were whatever for the sake of my point but you certainly don't come across with the mindset of someone who wants social progression and inclusion (which involves video games).
I don't think anyone plays video games to "fill some shallow ego driven hole in (their) heart". As I have mentioned above the process of inclusivity within video games is not primarily to validate but rather present the whole thing to a larger audience/community than people who are that.
I can't find the part where I said I play video games to see myself in the characters and you basically imply I'm egotistical for wanting representation which i think is completely absurd. At no point either did I say what you have layed out as "disgusting" as my mindset...
I play video games for the experience of playing the video games, the fantasy situations, the blood rush the exciting gameplay, same as you.
So as if you your last question wasn't rhetorical. No I wouldn't.
And neither do I, know what to say. You berate me for assumptions and then continue on to make several yourself (though partially less rude ones I do apologise.)
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While I personally may not care it is nice to see that they are getting some representation "if" they are at all
Il probably stick to David like normal
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Yup, I can't remember the origin of it but basically it gained prominence in film and music videos by lighting scenes or characters that could be perceived as queer with Purple, Pink, and Blue lighting. Due to the correlation to the colors in the bi pride flag it became known as Bisexual Lighting. It's a relatively new term but evidence of it and it's specific use in queer coding can be seen back in the early 2010s and possibly earlier than that.
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i'm down for LGBT rep in this game, pretty much agree with this statement wholeheartedly
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As long as they're well written i don't care, i don't want them to create a character where their only trait is their orientation.
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You could say the same thing about people being afraid of clowns its just one of those fears people have that doesn't make sense.
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Can you please tell me where I've said I can't function if a video game doesn't represent my demographic/lifestyle? I mean, I lived through the dark ages of gaming where a woman's primary role was damsel in distress, or eye candy in titty armor. Doesn't mean I didn't play through it,, doesn't mean I didn't LOVE every second of playing a powerful, competent woman in CONTROL 🤷♀️
So many ppl in this thread be so aggressive and it's not necessary- I have more than enough hugs for everyone 🤗❤
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
It was more of a general "you" than at one person directly. And thats good! You were fine. Although I disagree with your statement about women only existing in games to be Damsels in Distress. There were always games featuring strong women leads.
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