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Looks like Trickster will be at the bottom of the pile
Yeah, pretty sure he's about to be the weakest killer in the game now. Time to wait another 3 months to see if the killer after Trickster is worth playing
Comments
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It's because we have a bunch of yes men over there in Twitter. Look at all the comments on the official tweet about the changes. Everybody is praising them like what the heck
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I don't understand why they didnt make ricochet base kit, or at least make the number of knives required to down less, or IDK maybe not make it so that the laceration meter decreases over time. I mean honestly why even bother to make changes at this point
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Imagine being worse then clown lol
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People grossly underrate Clown. He has great 1v1 but not 1v4, which many killers have one or either and only a extreme minority have both.
He shuts down looping and your only chance to survive him is to pre drop pallets. I don't see how that's bad at all. Also the fact that he has built-in haste now makes him even more lethal
Clown is at least B tier imo, of course in the right hands.
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Don't mean to be that guy, but I said it on PTB day and I'll say it again. This still isn't enough.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/234939/tricksters-changes-still-arent-enough#latest
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I feel like Trapper is worse than Clown just on the fact he's dependent on the bag addons and requires setup.
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He has a great anti loop tool until you get to a pallet and drop it lol
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OK but you can't seriously be suggesting that we just have to learn to play the trickster right and suddenly hes going to be viable
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I haven't played him myself, but I also don't trust opinions that come out of the PTB. PTB testers said Spirit was terrible too, remember. I'd prefer to give him a bit of time to play out and let both sides learn him better before coming to conclusions about balance.
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There are 3 Trickster camps
- Those that love his design/kpop (mostly females) they're entitled to like the aesthetic even though comments like he's hot I find really cringey.
- Those that don't like his aesthetic or Kpop and wont play him. Again, they're entitled to there opinions on him.
- Those that just want to play him for his ability/power
Not many winners in the trickster population if he's going to be the worst killer in the game. Only group 1 will be happy as it stands
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OK but look at some of the best streamers out there. Watch trutalent and then your gonna tell me your not gonna listen to him? These aren't just P TB people this is some of the best killers out there. Not listening to them is the equivalent of burying your head in the sand
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Spirit was terrible lol she got major buffs that's why she's do good now
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Spirit also got changed from PTB. So she was terrible on the PTB.
But BHVR lead with "here's a preview of notable changes" so this isn't the full list so who knows what bhvr didn't consider notable.
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I would hope if they changed the number of knives needed that that would be considered notable
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I think this will officially be the first killer design intended only for Survivors. They didn't address any of the issues that made his power wasteful or easily countered to a point of almost abuse.
Main event power activates as Survivors are going down/after and not retainable
Laceration decrease fast enough to restart in chase and no lingering effects for target switching
Small objects hard counter his ability forcing you to now cancel
For a 110 killer there is little to benefit from and a lot for Survivors to utilize
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Really seems like he should either get buffed to 115% speed or have a single ricochet baseline. As it stands now, he's looking like he'll unfortunately be like Trapper where you need an addon just to make him feel playable (trick blades). And since it's purple, I'm expecting almost nobody to have it because getting purples you want is harder than getting iridescent addons.
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All the changes they could have done to make him feel stronger and unique...and they did things that don't fix anything. Still can't hold onto main event for the right moment. Still no changes to degrading laceration during chases. No mention of Ricochet being basekit. Anything that would make him feel unique to play over Huntress or Deathslinger not found.
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Here are the balance changes from the PTB relating to Spirit:
Buffs:
- TR reduced (32m -> 24m)
- Survivors don't hear the phasing sound when very close to the husk
- Slightly increased passive phase effect duration
- Slightly increased lunge range; all 4.4 m/s killers get the same lunge distance as 4.6 m/s killers.
Nerf:
- Can no longer see blood pools while phasing
Neutral:
- Reduced phasing sound volume; it was still plenty audible before and after, so this was more of a QoL change
There's no chance these buffs were enough to change her from a bad killer into a top-tier one. At launch she still had collision while phasing, no vault animation, OG prayer beads, etc., and she's top tier now even with nerfs to those. Her add-ons, phase speed, recovery, and duration all weren't re-balanced from the PTB. Many people just didn't realize how much potential she had during the PTB.
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So he'll be the new whipping boy in samination I guess. Every killer will forever be weak peasant role, people like to cry about queue times but refuse to play killer knowing it is gimped role full of jobber killers.
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Tru3 is not exactly someone whose opinion I'd trust, but still, I should clarify that I'm not saying that people are definitely wrong that he's weak. I'm just saying that opinions based on the PTB aren't likely to be that accurate because the meta hasn't had a chance to develop, so we should hold tight for a little bit until he gets released and people on both sides learn him better. I don't think there's enough time for players to reach a killer's potential on the PTB unless their skill ceiling is exceptionally low. There's also precedent for opinions from the PTB about killer strength to be off.
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yes, addons are almost impossible to obtain. I barely see killers with them
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I don't think he'll be worse than Clown, but he is quite weak. I think it would be really cool if they made the add-on that makes his knives ricochet base-kit, as it would make him much better and give him a niche separate from Huntress and Plague.
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Good. He's basically a wasted killer slot, so we can just pretend he never happened. At least the twins came with definitely-not-a-child and the memes that followed.
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You can just spam bottles until you get them, or spam bottles around many pallets if said pallet creates a loop to catch survivors
I literally said nothing about trickster
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He will EASILY be worse than Clown.
Clown is 115% movement speed and has pretty good anti-loop
Trickster is 110% movement speed and only has a power that is ok on open loops.
I like him and his power but he's just increadibly weak in comparison to all the other killers.
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His design (how he looks) and laughs are so good, I'm genuinly disappointed that he's so weak.
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She also had her directional phasing sound removed as well as her loud breathing while phasing. That was pretty significant.
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Oh, yeah. I get that. Trickster is probably better in lower ranks, though, since his power might as well be an instadown if a Survivor is caught in a dead zone.
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You can literally just play Billy or Leatherface and it would be waaay easier lol
Trickster just has nothing going for him strength wise.
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Trick Blades got nerfed. They get an extra ricochet, but they no longer do double damage, and instead give a BP bonus. They literally turned his best add-on into the meme add-on.
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How many people are going to mention the opinions toward PTB Spirit while also omitting that Spirit was buffed after that?
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Was that in the launch patch? It's not in the patch notes.
Regardless, that still isn't enough to take her from weak to top tier. She has such a movement speed advantage while phasing plus the mega lunge that she would still have a very high ceiling even with directional sound.
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She wasn't buffed very much at launch. Read my comment on page 1 with the the screenshot of the patch notes.
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Love how this got moved to Feedback & Suggestions when I just opening up a GENERAL DISCUSSION.
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She was buffed during her respective mid-chapter update:
The Spirit's phasing audio has been adjusted: Survivors within the Spirit Husk's terror radius will not hear the phasing sound. Survivors outside the Spirit Husk's terror radius can hear the Spirit's phasing sound, but will not be able to determine its direction. Survivors will no longer be able to hear the Spirit's breathing while she is phasing.
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There's no point in his power theres nothing unique about it lol. They just wanted all the k pop stans to come and try dbd. If I wanted to play a 110% ranged killer I'd play gunslinger or huntress both are more efficient. With trickster its more efficient to m1 them than using your power. It just shows that their getting lazy with the new powers their pushing out.
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This man knowns how underrated Clown is
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Sure, but she also wasn't weak on launch, and she wasn't much stronger on launch than she was in the PTB. Non-directional sound is of course helpful for her, but that's not the difference between a weak killer and a top tier one.
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Survivors within the Spirit Husk's terror radius will not hear the phasing sound.
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She also didn't have the lunge in the PTB.
And yes, it was enough to make her top tier. In the PTB, her phasing sound was loud, always played when she was phasing and was directional. There was no mindgame potential with her. She had a short lunge to top it off
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I didn't retype that or the breathing piece because thought they were less impactful than the directional phasing sound. At launch she still had no phasing sound within 8m, which is enough distance for her to still pull off most off her typical phasing/not phasing mind games at loops. I stand by my original point that she was underrated in the PTB and strong on launch, and my subsequent point that the buffs she received are not the difference between a weak killer and a top tier one. She was borderline OP after the buffs but only because she was already pretty good before.
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That is easily the most impactful change in that post. It means that Survivors in the Spirit's TR will not be aware that she is phasing at all if they don't have LOS.
So no, I don't agree with you. At all.
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The only lunge that was a little bit shorter was her normal lunge, not the mega lunge coming out of here power, which I assume is what you mean by "the lunge". Lunge distance was exclusively tied to killer speed prior to 2.2.0 (including through the 2.2.0 PTB; this was changed between the PTB and launch) and Spirit still moved faster for a bit coming out of her phase walk on the PTB. The slighly reduced lunge was a minor disadvantage of all 110% killers and not a big deal on Spirit because of her lunge coming out of phasing. [wiki]
The loudness of the phasing sound is irrelevant provided you can always hear it when it plays, which you have always been able to.
Non-directional sound and no sound near the husk were both buffs, but that is not the difference between a weak killer and a strong one. Spirit's phase walk is best used in short bursts when you're relatively close to a survivor. If you're playing her optimally, it usually doesn't matter if the survivor knows what direction you're in or if they know you're phasing. Mind games often only become possible as a survivor if she's phasing from farther away than she should be. You should be landing hits within a couple seconds of starting to phase so that even if you mess up and whiff a lunge, or something, your power is quickly off cooldown and you can try again.
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That mostly becomes relevant if the Spirit is phasing from farther away, and she should rarely be phasing from farther away in situations she would still be stealthy today. At launch there was already no phasing sound 8m from the husk, which is wide enough to cover most loops. She shouldn't be using her power from much farther away than that after a chase has already started, unless a survivor tries to run though a dead zone or something and it's a free hit for her regardless if she phases. Prior to a chase starting, this offers basically no advantage versus the current Spirit; now, if she starts phasing towards you from within 24m, you'll get a quick hit of the TR followed by nothing. Especially when combined with other clues about killer location or heading, you can usually infer that this means she is phasing towards you. The one time you probably would not infer this is when Spirit switches targets while chasing another survivor within the TR, and in this situation the 8-24m phasing sound would be very useful for survivors. This situation is the majority of the benefit against a competent Spirit, though.
Switching targets is a good tactic with today's Spirit, but it's certainly not the main thing that makes her good. She's mostly strong because of her combination of speed and control. 176% speed for up to 5 seconds base with full movement control and a mega lunge is just difficult for a survivor to counter and she's had all of that since the PTB. No other killer with this kind of movement has such few downsides. Blight has to bounce, has limited turning, and has a bounce cap. Billy has even more limited turning, an overheat mechanic, and a very loud saw. Wraith has decent stealth and no time limit on his power, but he's a lot slower at base, he still needs to slow down and ring a bell before getting his speed boost and the potential for a long lunge, and he can be burned out of his power. Spirit's only real downside is the time limit, assuming her headphones are good. Survivors not being visible was clearly intended to be the main downside, but in practice she should always know where non-IW injured survivors are and healthy or IW ones are still reasonably easy to track, especially with Stridor.
Edit: Her mind game potential also makes her easier to play and a lot more flexible, but that's also not necessary to play her well imo.
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She is strong because she can switch targets on the fly, because she can get the jump on you to start with without even being sure that she's headed in your direction, and because she can mindgame you at point blank. All of these things were changed from her initial PTB (both with the 8 m change and the outside of TR change to her phasing sound, as well as the loss of directional phasing).
I still do not agree with you at all.
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