General Discussions
General Discussions
DS still isn't an anti-tunneling perk and is bad for solo Q.
As someone who mostly plays Solo Q and doesn't use DS, the new nerf doesn't affect me too much.
The only issue I see with it would be in a situation like:
I'm on my last hook and injured, I see with Kindred the killer chasing someone else when someone is on their first hook.
I go to rescue the person on hook, and they refuse to heal me because they don't want to lose their DS, even though I am on my last hook and they aren't.
Anyone who has played solo Q, knows that you get a lot of selfish survivors as team mates, and I feel like with DS deactivating when you heal someone else, it will promote more selfish behaviors. Maybe even make more people bring self care, which IMO isn't ideal.
Another issue I have with DS, is not really with the nerf itself, since in this case it still acts the same way.
Example situation: I get unhooked, I have DS, get tunneled off of hook and get downed. I hit DS. Run the killer a bit more, get downed again and hooked.
Then I get unhooked again, and there's not really much stopping the killer from tunneling me a second time.
I feel like with this new nerf, it would be fair to make DS activate on both hook stages, maybe with a shorter timer (lets say 30 seconds each time).
Disclaimer: I think lately these forums don't really promote healthy discussion, and there's a certain narrative of "x bad y good" being pushed. So with that in mind, I'd like to have an actual intelligent conversation about what can and can't be done about the examples I just stated above.
Comments
-
I'll probably get attacked for this but I'd have been fine with it only cancelling on actual objective progressing actions like Gens, Totems and Gates. Or at the very least only when the DS user themself is healed, not healing someone else.
10 -
Right now you can even heal yourself with Inner Strength if you already cleansed a totem before and it won't deactivate.
4 -
Well, you aren't being tunneled. Think about it, your scenerio is with 3 people. 1 person was hooked after you and the last guy is being chased right at that time, the killer would have literally chased or hooked everyone else other than you before coming back to you. Thats as little you can get tunneled as possible in that scenerio.
Can you? I tried Second Wind and DS deactivated the second I got healed.
5 -
You could heal him and he could bodyblock with two health states and ds. I often have the problem as solo survivor that nobody looks at the hook counter. They want to be healed first and dont take a hit when im injured and they are full health. And that was before ds was nerfed.
When a survivor sacrifices me and dies bc of that in the long run, its a problem bc the survivor is bad. So i hope MMR fixes that.
For the second problem i think we shouldnt need a perk to stop tunneling. We need a better solution. But spreading damage is not viable. So other strategies then tunneling need to be more viable. And i know you dont need to tunnel against most solos. I play 95% solo survivor and its sometimes a mess. But with this teammates i dont deserve to win if im totally honest.
0 -
If you have time to fully heal someone, you aren't being tunneled.
That's it.
21 -
DS was never anti-tunnel perk, it is garbage now that's all. Killers keep saying "it is anti-tunnel perk" so lets buff it to make really anti-tunnel perk. Killers will be also happy? Because if they wont tunnel they will not get punish. But first buff.
6 -
Yes, and how that is going to make people with DS heal me in solo Q? I feel like you missed the point on what I was trying to say.
Just because someone isnt being tunneled, doesn't mean they wont want to save their DS.
4 -
There is a strange concept going around the community that "anti-tunnel" means "the killer cannot physically tunnel you" and not "the killer gets heavily punished for tunneling you."
Now, I'm all for buffing both the timer and making it activate twice, so long as it also deactivates when getting a flashlight/pallet save (I'm getting sick of mayflies hanging around me with flashlights just because they got unhooked and would like a little discouragement to stop them (yes, I know it's good for me as killer, I don't care, please go away)), but there is never in existence going to be a perk that stops a tunneling killer from tunneling. Too many killers care more about getting a kill than having fun.
2 -
I'm fine with it even stopping you from being able to use your flashlight when it is active. Idk how they would deactivate it by using pallets since you want to use them if youre being tunneled anyway. Not to save others, just to save yourself.
And yea I agree with that. I see so many killers with the "I don't owe you a fun experience" arguments but when something gets more difficult for them they're the first to come to the forums to complain about unfun survivors.
5 -
There's a unique mechanic behind pallet saves that prevents Enduring from being activated. Tie it with deactivating DS and it should be...
Yeah, okay, the code actually might not be able to handle that much complexity, but that's how they could do it.
2 -
I actually didnt know that about enduring and pallet saves.
I'm afraid if they tried to implement that, somehow everyone would end up with victor's POV or something weirdly broken like that.
I do like that idea though and I think it's pretty fair.
0 -
DS is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk. These new changes confirm that.
You shouldn't get to keep it if you aren't being tunneled.
3 -
It's still not an anti tunneling perk. If you read the post completely, you'd see an example how it isnt.
1 -
A 5 sec stun won't stop a tunneling killer if they still have a beef with you for some reason.
DS won't stop tunneling or even deter since it seems like every time a killer sees a DS pop up, they get angrier and try to kill you even more.
3 -
Technically a lot of survivor perks prioritise individual safety over team safety. When meg sprintbursts past you she's decided you're taking the chase, not her. When Claudette spends a minute selfcaring in the corner of the map, she's decided her 1 health state is more important than getting a gen done. Etc. Etc.
If someone wants to use empathy or bond to lead a chase to another survivor they can do that- it's selfish and potentially harmful gameplay, but this is an inherent part of the survivor experience: you are placed with 3 random people and the variety in skill and teamwork dictates how each game goes.
Basically your example is very niche and the kind of player who is playing that way is already a selfish player, they're just finding new ways to express that selfishness.
As for tunnelling a survivor who has already used their DS makes total sense to me- I think this will be less of an issue now that DS isn't likely to be used as abusively though.
1 -
So what you're saying with that whole text is "it is what it is".
Want to any anything that actually goes against anything of what I just said or how to make it better for solo Q?
0 -
Sure solos dont do that, because i belive a lot have experienced what i did. You do something like that, distracting the killer because you are the only one not on death hook while the others heal and open the gate, and the killer gets you. Even if they dont camp, you will more often than not die on that hook, because the other guys dont care about you. I even had one game where the hatch had spawned, i got a key, and i unhooked the only other survivor, bodyblock the killer so he gets away, and after he healed himself just waited for me to die, because he too had found the hatch.
My most favorite game was a game with a 3-swf where i brought a key. Then i run the killer for 4 gens, then got downed, and the killer went on patrolling. Then the swf came to the hook, teabagged me until i died, took my key and escaped. When i asked why, they just told me "you didnt even work on a gen, you dont deserve to escape". I died on the only hook that game saw.
Now, how often do things like this need to happen to you so you decide you dont care about the others anymore? For me, it took around 5 k hours in this game. Now i still help, but i dont risk anything for you (unless you have proven in the match you are worth the risk, then i am willing to die to save you. But you get those teammates not often.)
0 -
Equip a healing perk or bring a med kit. Then you don’t have worry about the situation you described. Might have to take one of the other 3 second chance perks off now too. 😮
0 -
Yes, kindred and bond are second chance perks.
Read the disclaimer on my post, I said intelligent discussion not "hurr durr second change perk hurr durr" discussion.
3 -
Okay? So then DS needed changed even more because it really was just a perk that guaranteed progress on a gen.
If you want to fix tunneling, you have to completely redesign the game.
3 -
tell Me how what I said isn’t correct. You made a direct issue of unhooking a survivor that wouldn’t heal you because they would lose ds..... I answered that you could always equip a heal perk or bring a med kit.
99% of the nonsense the comments regarding ds having the abusable parts of it removed sound exactly like what you say.
2 -
You stop being correct when you just assume that I'm using "second chance perks" in the first place.
Only person spitting non sense on this thread is you. Please come with something that actually makes sense to the topic. I dunno, maybe read the full post.
0 -
Or just make it activate on both hook stages so it actually punishes the killer.
0 -
Like you said, if the Killer wants you dead, a 5 second stun isn't a big deal.
0 -
What would you purpose to change it then? A longer stun?
0 -
Thats different. This survivor know they can sacrifice you and they get out. But there are many survivor who dont help and then the killer gets an easy 4k. And i dont think they have enough experience like someone with over 1000 hours. They just dont know it better.
There are survivor like you described, but i think the majority has no ill intent.
1 -
I wouldn't change it at all.
If people actually want to discourage Killers from tunneling, they need to incentivize not tunneling. As it stands, tunneling one Survivor out ASAP is the best strategy for Killer.
Give the Killers some perks that encourage spreading out damage. I doubt that will help tho, as it would have to be a monstrously powerful perk to compete with the pressure put on Survivors in a 3v1
3 -
Then if they don't know better they shouldnt be at red ranks. Most get carried there by their SWF.
0 -
Killers wouldnt want to use those perks. People talk a lot about survivor meta, but killers also have a meta that they dont change from much.
I killer shouldn't be rewarded for not tunneling. They should be punished for it. Like survivors can be punished for "genrushing" if noed is in game.
0 -
Disagree.
What's more effective at stopping camping, BT or BBQ?
BBQ gives the Killer info in order to not camp, but it also informs them on when they should stick around.
You'd have to rebalance the entire game in order to dissuade Killers from tunneling. It's their best strategy.
4 -
killers had a perk that STRONGLY encourage moving away from hooks. The perk simply didn’t work if a killer stayed at a hook. It was nerfed within 2 months.
0 -
Which perk was that and how was it nerfed?
0 -
Undying. And while I do believe it was too strong as originally constructed, the way they went about changing it made it not worth running now.
0 -
And to be fair, the ruin undying would have been better served with adjusting tinkerer. Just my 2 cents
0 -
Ok.
1 -
Of course you'll be tunneled if you have already used DS.
Unlucky for you, but that's just how it is.
0 -
So... it's working as an anti-tunnel perk then?
If you're not actually getting tunnelled, why should you be able to 'save it'?
That was the whole problem with it. Survivors who weren't getting tunnelled were saving it up, then using their invincibility to do things that shouldn't have been able to do, like bodyblock for someone else while injured and DS their way out, or commit to gens right in front of the killer knowing that if they were grabbed they could just run off right away.
2 -
"It is how it is" is a lazy argument made by people who don't understand how a discussion works.
I never mentioned against saving anything. Maybe read again.
1 -
Honestly, a basekit info/mobility perk that activates on hooking a survivor could give incentive for a killer to go away from a hook, especially in low ranks where the killer might not know where to go next.
This would encourage leaving the hook, indirectly discouraging camping, while also discouraging tunneling off hook, by directing the killer somewhere else, so a safe unhook and heal can happen.
Meanwhile its a direct buff to killers, so both sides benefit from this arrangement.
0 -
Do you want to read your own post again?
0 -
You mean BBQ. There's killers who run BBQ and still tunnel. It will not stop them.
1 -
I dont have to, I'm fully aware of everything I wrote, and so is at least 70% of people commenting on this thread. Seems like a you problem.
1 -
That depends entirely on the info BBQ gives them. If two survivors are in lockers and the third is rushing right at you to 'rescue' the survivor you just hooked... what choice do you have?
2 -
"Just because someone isnt being tunneled, doesn't mean they wont want to save their DS." - Marigoria, April 1st
Is this a joke?
""It is how it is" is a lazy argument made by people who don't understand how a discussion works."
I think you don't understand how a discussion works. People are allowed to disagree with you.
2 -
Show context :) Quote it all, it's not that hard
0 -
As a killer main, bbq isn't that great of an info perk. It has a minimum radius and can be spoofed by hiding behind a gen or in a locker. Plus is provides no bonus to mobility, so its nice that you can see a survivor across the map, but it doesn't mean you can get over there fast enough to do anything about it.
Theres a reason I didn't just say basekit bbq.
2 -
I literally did in my first post in this topic, which you disregarded as a "lazy argument" because you can't handle people disagreeing with you.
2 -
I think the great misconception here is that most killers that will go after a recently hooked survivor do it with some sort of animosity. It’s because it is the most effective way of slowing a game down. Unless there is a mechanism that incentivized leaving a hook that also slows the game down at a similar pace, it’s just going to wind up the same
2 -
You simply didnt add anything that made any sense to my post, so yes I disagree with that nonsense.
0 -
Does this work better for you?
You're literally arguing for people to be able to 'save' their DS for later, even when they're not getting tunnelled.
4
