Are we going to keep ignoring that face camping and hard tunneling are a giant problem
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camping and tunneling when all gens are done is fine it when there 4 or 5 gens still left and the killer camp and tunnels that what people hate.
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it really isn't people here mostly play both sides
also if gen tapping that bad for you run dragon's grip
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That's a lie. Survivors complain about it regardless of when it happens. And even if it happens, it's not the killer's responsability not to camp just because someone is not going to enjoy it. If the killer camps, you play around it. Like any other thing. You can't just simply expect people to do what you want. I want survivors to stop body blocking when I want to hit an injured person. What do I do? Just complain so that they'll stop? Of course not. I play around it. And so should you. The difference is that most survivors are entitled and think the killer should play how they want them to play.
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this is a really big problem in my opinion and killer camping and tunneling should be punish. the thing is, the community is already really toxic and by saying it is a tactic, the devs push people to play like that and the community is becoming even more toxic. it is not fun for survivors to play against killer like that it is ruining the game and it is even worst when you are a solo survivor and get camp tunneled 5-10 game in a row. i think it could force killer to play better with skill instead of using cheap tactics by abusing the game mechanics and ruining other players game.
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Another survivor main in this forum. Thanks God! Sorry for you, wait for the comments on this non killlers forum
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People camp and tunnel because they don't get punished for that by survivors.
Literally 9/10 matches where I decide to fully camp/tunnel to have different pace I see survivors literally dying to make me stop chasing/camping one particular survivor which predictably ends up with a disaster for them.
The greed is like the second biggest problem survivors have after arrogance.
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It doesn't matter. If survivors won't pip, it's not the killer's problem. You're putting too much responsability of your gameplay on someone else. And the worst part is that this someone is actually your adversary. Do you realize that? It's not their job to make your life better. Don't be entitled. Do you stop and think about if the killer is gonna pip? I'm sure you don't. .Because that's not your role. It's not your problem if the killer pips or not. The same goes to the killer. Not. Their. Problem.
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do you think it is fair for survivors to play with green or yellow rank on their team because they loose 3 or 4 rank after being camp and tunneled more than 10 game in a row ?
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Absolutely. There are lots of in game counters to both, if the Survivors can't figure them out after 10 straight matches that's on them. Also rank is meaningless, it's more a sign of how often you play, not how well you play
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Again. It doesn't matter. The killer doesn't have to play with that in mind. They are there to play the game in whatever way they feel like, just like you.
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So is it fair that the other 3 survivors also depip because they are not allowed to get their benevolent emblem or evader emblem since the killer refuses to interact with them? The pip/rank system needs to be reworked or camping/tunneling needs to go and personally I don’t care which one happens but one needs to.
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You're just putting responsability of what happens to you on someone else. You want someone else who has nothing to do with you to think about the consequences of you losing rank.
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that is true that rank is meaningless. i've been camped and tunneled by purple and red rank all night by players playing like rank 20 before posting messages so i agree with that .
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Absolutely, and as I already said in an earlier reply to you, the pip/rank system is already being overhauled with the new matchmaking system. So instead of de-pipping, they can just be matched with other players who don't understand what counterplay is. It's win-win
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^^^
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So by now you should have worked out the fairly straightforward counterplay to both situations, if not please search this forum, where those suggestions can be found in abundance.
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If the killer refuses to interact with you then you can go interact with him at the hook if you're concerned about pips/rank.
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What you'll come to realize about this person, is that they label everything they don't like as "toxic".
Choose Nurse or Spirit in the selection screen? Toxic.
Run Pop? Toxic.
Run Ruin? Toxic.
Slug? Toxic.
The true toxicity is in their gatekeeping of other peoples choices and gameplay.
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You give me 3x the bloodpoints for staying away from a hook and you bet your sweet ass, you can do whatever unhook you want and I'll avoid that survivor like the plague for 2 minutes XD
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Yeah i know, its just interesting to see how their thought process works.
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First off i don’t think anything that guy said is toxic except slugging but only when the killer slugs all 4 survivors and then leaves them to bleed out without hooking. Also that guy is a known troll so please don’t listen to him. All he does is go on to discussion and get angry at people before trying to blame them for everything he said.
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Because they should know this is unacceptable, if enough people make it clear that this is unacceptable I would assume that eventually changes will be made. Unfortunately, they really just continue to make either killer sided buffs or changes no one wanted or asked for. No one wanted a change to the UI, no one asked for breakable doors all over every map, or Midwich (self-explanatory). So I assume there won't be many positive changes until another game comes out that draws people away from this one. I am patiently waiting for a comparable option, but there aren't many viable competitors currently.
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If behavior doesn't get feedback things will never change.
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But people don't understand that BHVR has stated that tunneling and camping are part of the game and not an abusable offense. Yet here we are with this post.
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It's unacceptable to you.
You don't decide the rules, the devs do, they have stated it isn't unacceptable. Should I report Survivors for using BNP just because I don't like it?
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Your post history shows that is a lie, you can get the screenshot deleted (apparently) but your history is there for all to see.
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I can literally quote you saying, in other posts, that playing Spirit and Nurse are toxic.
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How can we ignore it? There’s a new post about it every other second.
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In the conversation I was pointing out that spirit and nurse are considered toxic by a lot of survivors and that’s why some dc if they see they are against them. You really just like to twist my words huh
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https://dbd-stats.net/skill-check
So I think this is what you're looking for. It lets you play your favorite part of the game without having to worry about that pesky killer ruining your good time.
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Gottem.
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BHVR has been aware of how much mediocre players being camped and tunneled and have been asking you to shut up about it since 2016 because its such an integral part of the game that removing it would be like removing flashbangs and smokes from CS:GO or the wall from Street Fighter.
Like this was basically addressed in EVERY Dev diary.
However, just because you lose to something, or you don't like it, or don't feel good about it, doesn't mean its unfair, or needs to leave the game. That is what we in the gaming world call a scrub:
Basically, by trying to create artificial rules on the game enviroment that limit intricate, dynamic, and interesting behaviors (and yes, tunneling and camping DOES lead to lots of interesting game states, again, its SUPER interesting for the 4 other players in the game and low key interesting for you, the WORST era in the game's history for survivor enjoyment was arguably the slug meta brought about by old Borrowed Time that made defending the hook legitimately impossible, the game became super boring and the playerbase dropped off pretty hard, like the peak playerbase dipped under 18,000 because the game was SO FREAKING BORING), you are A: Making yourself much worse at the game because your convincing yourself that it isn't on you to learn to beat these strategies, and B: Making it so you understand the game less, because you refuse to engage with the logic of these strategies and why they are (sometimes) optimal and exist in the game.
If you pretend killers only camp and tunnel because they are big meanies, you are, in fact, a scrub. Likewise if you refuse to recognize what tunneling and camping add to the game, even if you don't think it is worth it, and the potential costs for removing them, you are a scrub. That isn't me trying to insult you, that is me trying to rescue you from the scrub mindset. You are refusing to understand the game and your opponent, and that is limiting how deeply you can engage with the game, and thus enjoy it.
Because the best part is that tunneling and camping is HIGHLY counterable. It is EXTREMELY punishable behavior. It exists as a PSYCHOLOGICAL strategy. The fact it infuriates you is the 'point' and if you turn it around on the killer and THEY lose THEIR cool, listening to them 'throw a tantrum' is... divine.
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This all day and night
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I like Midwich. Maybe because I'm an old school Silent Hill fan, or maybe because I'm a new player and don't take the same amount of joy in the secondary game of looping that everyone else seems to. I don't know. The fact is, it's a map I really enjoy. Some of the maps I like the least, others love the most. It is what it is.
As for the camping, as a survivor main I can join the chorus that says yes, it IS incredibly annoying. It's not just annoying, it's a waste of our time. An elimination of our agency, our ability to even play the game. Believe it or not it's not the most satisfying thing to get a game based on hunting, chasing, sneaking and survival, wait upwards of several minutes for a match, and then spend just as many minutes (if not more) NOT playing the game but simply hanging there on a hook and / or crawling around on the ground helplessly with nothing to do. Staring at a screen unable to play a game probably isn't most people's idea of a good time. In fact it's nothing more than wasted time. Wasted time that, if the killer weren't camping, could be spent, you know, playing the game.
HAVING SAID THAT, I have no fealty to one side or the other. I see so many survivor mains bitching about killers, and so many killer mains bitching about survivors, and I find it so ridiculous. I used to moderate the THQ wrestling game forums and saw the same cyclical arguments day after day. "These things ruin the game". "No, I like them. That other stuff that YOU like ruins the game". I would imagine that it's like this in many game communities, especially competitive ones, and I just don't understand why something that could turn into valid, constructive criticism is so often reduced to broad-brush dismissal of "that OTHER tribe". Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of legitimate discussion and criticism here. Everyone who's spoken to me so far has been perfectly decent. I was just warned by...well, anyone I know who's ever played this game that the community is toxic, and it's nor hard to see why. I don't blame anyone specifically. I'm just saying that I thought the war between killers and survivors would be restricted to the game itself.
So, on that note, I've played killers too. There are killers I enjoy just like there are survivors I enjoy. And my point is, while I hate camping and try very hard not to resort to it myself because I think that it's a cheap and lazy strategy that ruins other peoples' fun, I accept that it IS in fact a valid strategy. Sure, it may suck that the survivors may have to adjust their preferred strategy when they see a camper and take the opportunity to jam in some good generator repairs (though strangely, in 95 percent of my games, they don't). Sure, survivors may prefer altruism over objectives. I myself really enjoyed the teamwork of my first week of play before I realized how many players are addicted to camping. But, again, it's a valid strategy. I may not like it but hey, them's the breaks. If more people realized that they could work together on getting those gennys done and let the camped survivor linger for a while, camping would start to become less popular. And again, yeah, it really sucks to be the person on the hook or bleeding on the ground while some inbred taps the crouch button over and over to indicate his apparent skill and brilliance. But if you play enough to get better, and don't always rush in for a save you're a lot less likely to wind up hooked in the first place. Right now I feel that I suck, but even I know that that's because I have a lot more practicing to do and lot more things to learn.
The bottom line is that, as a newcomer to this scene, I see a lot of the same arguments repeated in different forms: Killers suck because X, Survivors suck because Y. Let's face it, there are plenty of pros and cons on both sides and lots of different ways to play the game. I love some maps others hate. Others love some killers that I can't stand. It's not a game for one person, it's a game for everybody. So yeah, while things sometimes happen in my game that put me in an extremely salty mood, that doesn't mean that I can't play differently or choose a different character or try different perks or otherwise try to have fun in a different manner the next time. There are things that I hate, but that doesn't make them inherently bad, nor should it mean that everyone else has to hate them too.
If you read this whole thing you get the ultra rare "You're Very Kind and / or Very Bored" perk.
Post edited by miketheratguy on3 -
Which sammich?
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Maybe try and learn to counter those strats?
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Thing is though I wasn't disagreeing with the guy that I don't like this play style 😅 I rotate around survivors I hook knowing that I'm throwing games because of it, but at least they have a game and at least I've avoided borrowed time.
Thing is survivors have way more mechanics to abuse than killers, you think hard tunnels are a dead game tactic imagine chasing a swf the whole match getting hit with flashlights so you have actually hooked just one person, chasing another person to exit gate only to have the team surround that person and it become painfully obvious in the moment that they were all rotating protection hits by bodyblocking knowing the dumb space of time you wipe your knife after ONE hit whilst they get a speed boost away from you.
1 v 4 but there's so many ways the 1 has to slow down? The 4 can literally stand in the 1's way like ######### is this game a joke how can you block a killer and not get punished for it? So much for the title "killer" when 4 people blind you with flashlights, hit you with pallets and literally stand in your way to stop you.
Anybody complaining about tunnelling obviously has never played killer a day in their life.
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This is true, new maps needed it's obvious this game has no competent game testers. Let them just play normal for at least a month to see if they believe they are having "fun" and a fair game experience.
I could not imagine half these things getting called out on other games. Imagine hitbox issues on Fortnite oooooh I said it blasphemy 😂 it's hella true tho that's a reliable game that's why you can "go pro" on it
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These are good points but it still doesn't cover the amount survivors can do to mess with killers, what's that perk Jeff's got that pops hooks when he's taken off? Or sabo them even with a toolbox let alone the perk whilst a friend bodyblocks. And if you camp a person you've literally thrown the game the speed gens can be done. 1 v 4 but the 1 is literally in a place of weakness at all times, the top players in your community have all said. I main Legion because I like the aesthetic but the power is so useless and detrimental to the game I continuously have more success just running around m1ing people. Imagine having a power as a killer that stops you from killing 🤔.
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You wanna help make the game better then or just keep making pointless statements
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Also, what? Just read this properly like lol you don't play killer, that much is obvious 😂 any good swf understands exactly how to unhook someone at just the right angle so you don't get the grab or as you grab they unhook the other, they'll flashlight/BT/DS the f**k outta there and that's that. Sorry a bunch of idiots play solo survivor, I have seen it but the swf experience is a whole other level.
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Thing is thoooooo, can something be done about the things you listed 😭😂 when you get to that point of killer where everyone understands the power of bodyblocking you realise how weak Legion truly is and it's horrible. There are literally so many no win situations especially around exit gates end game. It's not a matter of skill but simple mechanics. I also don't understand why killer has to have speed penalties after hits and survivors get speed boosts? One or the other jheeez and you're standing there as Legion like if I use my power right now I can't actually kill anyone and they are all going to zoom through the exit gate. Fun. What a cool power.
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Okay, all that high-and-mighty talk about the scrub mindset, let me explain something...
The goal of any given game is to be fun and engaging. If this game wasn't fun, it wouldn't draw and retain players. And guess what the problem is with camping and tunnelling? It's not fun. For anyone involved.
You mention that camping and tunnelling 'add' to the game, and I ask you: What? What does it add? Because compared to ordinary play, tunnelling is practically indistinguishable on the killer side of things, and massively reduces gameplay for the survivor. Camping is even worse, because it cuts out all gameplay on both sides of the fence.
Survivors don't enjoy getting camped and don't enjoy getting tunnelled. I'm pretty sure killers don't get any enjoyment out of camping and tunnelling that they wouldn't get out of playing a match in a normal way.
Yes, it's 'balanced' (Only if the survivors hard coordinate, in other words: Not in solo queue), but if every killer were to camp and tunnel and every survivor were to play the hardcounter to it, this game would be dead within a week. No one wants to play DBD if its entire gameplay plan is going to consist of:
- One survivor spending some time in a chase and spending the rest of the match on a hook.
- Three survivors moving to gens and holding M1.
- The killer chasing down one survivor and then spending the rest of the trial staring him down.
'Fair' doesn't mean something is healthy for the game. It would be very 'fair' if the killer couldn't get more than 2 kills in any given match, because then it mostly breaks even. But every killer could quit if, after two kills, the other two survivors are fully invincible for the rest of the trial.
Camping and Tunnelling suck the fun out of the game for both sides. Camping is by far the worse offender of the two, but the nerf and subsequent disappearance of DS has really brought tunnelling back into the limelight too. The only reason they haven't killed off DBD yet is because a lot of killers DO abide by a certain 'code of honour' and refuse to participate in these strategies. I myself immediately put distance between myself and a hooked survivor and try to look for someone else. And if I keep catching the same survivor, I'll often refuse to kill them off in favour of chasing someone else. It creates healthier gameplay.
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THIS! Completely agree and I’m happy to see other people think this way also. Tired of people responding to us survivors with these compliments as “oh you’re just a scrub, player better”
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Naaa, OP is a pointless statement
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to me tunneling and camping is fine when it near the end of the game ( all gens are done EGC)
survivors complain either way but so do killers about the gen speed which I feel needs to be looked at as well as the new killer.
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And what you "less than ideal" players don't seem to understand that is if everybody properly punished the mindless campers, it would disappear or you'd outlevel them.
I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth of the situation, but that's the way it is. There's nothing high-and mighty about pointing out that your gameplay encourages the very thing you hate going up against. And as I've pointed out time and time again - if you don't find it fun and engaging, don't play.
This game has retained it's player base for almost SIX ######### YEARS despite all the pissing and moaning about camping. You all can stop acting like what's happening is going to kill the game
What you need to accept is that it's just not for you and there's no shame in that.
But it's not wrong. See above. If players would respond properly to camping every single time, you'd see a lot less of it.
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10% speed bonus to work generators to all survivors while the killer is with 20m of the hook and there are no other survivors within 20m of the hook. Boom no exploits, the game just nudges survivors into doing what they should do anyway. Additionally the quicker speed, might encourage the killer to leave the survivor on the hook since all the generators are popping.
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I got the perk, yay! And I agree that different strokes for different folks. You also speak at length about camping which I stated in an earlier comment was not much of a problem, my issue is with the hard tunnels or tunnel n' slug combo. In general people were upset that I said I reported these people. But if you read this forum, post chat, fb group etc, literally thousands of people complain about this behavior every day. So dismissing this toxic behavior as 'strategy' is not ok, when 80% of this game are survivors. Especially when a huge swath of their players have repeatedly ask for a solution or a deterrent to this behavior. You pointed out that queue times are long and tedious. I am tired of waiting 10-15 minutes for a match to be tunneled out in 3 and have to get back in line.
On a side bar, I die a little on the inside when I am being face camped and people don't go do the gens. I would 100% rather hang for the entire time until death if the gens all get popped in the meantime and the other team members get out.
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Not if they are swf. But rhatbis on them for choosing to cheat over playing as intended :)
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