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Opening the exit gates with >0 gens remaining when the game is being held hostage by SWF
Just to set the scene: I avoided them as long as i could, but ultimately i'll have to play the killer challenges properly if i want to progress in the Rift, so now that every single survivor challenge has been done i'm no longer getting away with just doing my 1 Killer game a day.
So first up we have a Plague Game on Azarov's Resting Place. Aggravating, slow, and ultimately a 4k because an SWF team decided to meme / bully with mass head on stuns for 25 minutes but didn't account for the fact that i can infest lockers
Let's try something more fun, i don't really care about winning, Trapper. Haven't done that in ages.
Game 2: Haddonfield. With the basement window. With 6 windows on the corner building and 2 copies of said corner building. With an SWF squad intentionally leaving the 5th generator on 99% until every. single. pallet. on the map has been looped and used. 38 minutes of match time, 1 hook, many flashlight clicks. Such fun. "gg ez".
Game 3: Haddonfield. With the basement window. With 5 windowns on the corner building. With an SWF squad that intentionally leaves the last generator unrepaired to troll me and ultimately dies a horrible quadruple slug death because they were setting up for a big Adrenaline and didn't realize i had kicked all three gens remotely (THANKS OPPRESSION). Another 27 minutes of anti-fun, BMing survivors on the strongest loops i know in my 2k hours, out not to win or to have fun, but just to bully and make sure their opponent has as little fun as humanly possible.
I think you understand what i'm putting down. At this point i would like to propose a simple change: *If no generator has been completed for 10 minutes, i would like to be able to just open the god damn exit gate.*
Not only is EGC as a mechanic in its currently iteration utterly pointless (having to introduce gnome-themed goodies to get people to stay around in it because it literally does not exist in normal gameplay due to exit gate 99%ing), it's getting ABUSED at this point. Killer can open the exit gates when all the gens are done? Let's leave the last gen on 99% so we can bully the killer for another 10-15 minutes or however long our resources last.
Fix it. I'm not even going to touch on the fact that that house tile got a breakable wall and only 1 window at a time on ALL tiles but Haddonfield, other than quickly saying maybe it should be adjusted (not that that would fix that map whatsoever).
Fix the survivor's ability to take my evening hostage for so much time that i am LITERALLY BACK TO GAMEPLAY FASTER eating consecutive DC penalties than trying to play out these matches.
If the next match is another Haddonfield 4 man SWF trying to hostage me for over 20 minutes, i'm taking the DC penalty.
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Game 4, Cowshed (ha ha hahhahaaaaa)
29 minutes of hostage taking, teabagging in the exit gate until the last second of EGC
DbD is literally unplayable on European servers as killer if you just want to play and/or do challenges. I'm done trying to find gameplay against these people. I'm now a Bubba main and you know EXACTLY where i'll be standing with my ######### chainsaw.
Edit: Update with Game 5,Went Bubba, 100% camped the first basement hook out, got a 4k and a pip. Yay. This is DbD 2021 how i guess it's supposed to be played. Excuse me while i go throw up.
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I've been asking for this for a while. Why do the gens have to be done for the killer to open the exit gates? Just make it to where NOED won't activate if the killer opens the door so they can't cheese the mechanic like that. Other than that specific scenario, there is no valid justification for why the killer can't have an anti-hostage mechanic like the survivors do.
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I would say make it be five minutes at absolute most.
Post edited by Beelzeboop on0 -
It sounds like you should find a different game to play 'cause this one isn't doing it for you.
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Killers can not open gates because that can abuse by them. You wanna depip as killer, with that you can open gates and end game so fast. And noone will get any points and boring. So that can not happen.
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I agree that there should be a way for people to trigger EGC after 20-30 minutes. I don't know how people should trigger it -- I thought, at one point, maybe they should have to find a glyph -- but I think there should be some way to get out of the match without D/Cing.
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Hopefully mmr will give you players on your skill level. I've never had it that bad tbh.
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I mean if they are truly taking the game hostage - report them.
At least with reporting them - if they truly are taking the game hostage - and you have proof - then they will get a suspension and others won't have to deal with their behavior.
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*chuckles at the funny joke, then realizes it's not a joke*
The joke is the devs ever getting MMR working right.
The other joke is thinking there are not SWF bully squads at every level of play. Some people with thousands of hours make smurf accounts just to bully low rank Killers. I'm a less than 1k hour player and I've run into Survivors as Killer who admitted to having done such and Killers as Survivor who also admitted to doing the same but reversed. Because some people are just [bad word]s who like to make other people suffer.
To the OP: I agree that after a certain point of no gen getting finished and no one being hooked the EGC should just automatically trigger, forcing the Survivors to finish the gens and get out or die. This would prevent both Killer and Survivors from holding the game hostage without having to DC.
I think fifteen minutes of no gen finished and no hook should be fine.
This would also help in those cases with that one Urban Evading immersed you just can't find when neither of you can find the hatch... .
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Both sides should probably have a forfeit options. Slugged survivors should be able to make themselves bleed out faster and killers should be able to forfeit after enough time has passed
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IMO, I think a 20 min game timer would be just fine. It goes untill EGC triggers.
EGC changes: Now triggers when gates are powered, is stopped while gates are being opened. Killers only see the timer after a gate is opened.
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Moving story with many twist and turns.
I liked the ending where the protagonist learned how to play killer and got the 4k.
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Not a great argument. If Survivors want to depip, they just also don't play, the killer hooks them all, and they die within a few minutes. Killer gets very little bloodpoints for it, and might even depip if they all are doing it.
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You dont get it, arent you? Killer will open gates early and will stop game early. Killer wants depip, not survivors.
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Right, but i'm saying that right now in the current world, survivors can do the same thing by just doing nothing. And in that case, the survivors depip, but the killer will actually depip as well if all the survivors do it.
I'm saying it's not a good reason.
Also, pips are pointless anyway especially when MMR finally happens.
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Not if you lock it behind no generator being done for 10 minutes, as i said in my original post.
If the survivors are willfully not finishing a generator for the entire length of an average match, it's because there are either 2 survivors hiding in opposite corners trying to wait out hatch, or it's because a toxic squad is taking the match hostage to bully a killer into disconnecting.
In both of those scenarios, giving the killer the ability to just open the door is absolutely justified. I mean hell if you think that's too easy, you could make it so that the game will literally tease the endgame collapse (and then actually do it) if survivors don't get back on Gens (EGC gets stopped & reset if a generator completes)
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Because then the Killer can just immediately open the Exit Gates at the start of the game to force depips.
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I think the solution to that would be making it so that if the gates are opened early, everyone has a floor of black pipping (in addition to no endgame perks working.)
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The Killer can still troll by just forcibly ending games when they start.
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To me, that's not really any different than if you get an AFK killer, someone who just wants to facecamp the first person they see, or someone who's just memeing and won't play the game normally.
Bust matches are bust matches. If you want to prevent this kind of abuse, make it so the killer can't do this until 10 minutes from the start of the game. I'd still like a non-DC way to get out of games where the last two survivors are hardcore stealthing and not even trying to do gens and finding them can take several more games' worth of time, or games where a bully squad won't complete the last gen because they want to keep ######### with you.
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Might I suggest simply changing up the crow system to actually WORK on these hostage holders?
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I would be completely game for that solution too. Give all survivors crows if no gens have been completed in ten minutes (with all crows dissipating once someone is hit), or any survivor crows if they haven't completed any actions/earned any points in any category in a shorter span of time.
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Or they could just fix matchmaking so that you're never in a situation where survivors are way better than you to the point where they're running you for 38 minutes. I have 1200 hours in this game and I don't think I've ever had a game longer than like 20-25 minutes on either side.
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OP's issue isn't tracking related, though. They were actually chasing these survivors but clearly wasn't good enough to down them. They're not necessarily trying to address the teams that hide in the corner and refuse to play the game; it's people who would rather mess around with the killer than do gens and leave.
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Can't you just DC, though? This really shouldn't be common enough where the DC cooldown would become an issue.
I don't like giving players a forfeit option because it just encourages people who are losing and/or tilted to ruin the game for everyone else instead of seeing it through.
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Make a forfeit a unanimous decision among living Survivors, then.
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That would be fine. I still think there's not really a need for that, though - like, survivors already have a four-minute bleed out timer and survivors can kill themselves on the hook. If survivors want a game to end, just stick to a gen until the killer shows up. If he lets you repair, great, you'll be out soon. If he downs you and slugs you, great, you'll be dead soon. If you hooks you, great, you'll be dead soon.
OP's situation also really shouldn't happen with a functional matchmaking system. 1 hook in 38 minutes says to me it's great survivors against a new killer. Even an average killer might not be able to deal with great survivors early, but once most of the pallets are cleared out they should start being able to get hooks.
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Then change that. Make an escape a guaranteed black pip.
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I do support changing the overall ranking system to allow for guaranteed black pips on escape, FWIW.
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This. I WAS good enough to eventually 4k the one team that stuck around for too long after they had exhausted all their pallet options (What are you gonna do when you roll the most survivor friendly version of haddonfield while trying to do a Trapper daily ritual twice in a row).
The only reason i got them was because they literally forced me to stay in the match with them for 43 minutes according to my shadowplay. Noone should be allowed to force me to play a hopeless match against them for over five times longer than an average match, just because they want their enjoyment out of making sure i have a bad time.
Post edited by Jukantos on1 -
How about something like that.
If there are all 4 survivors in the game and not a single gen have been popped / not a single survivor have been hooked in past 8 minutes, killer gets 5% haste. Or other effect that would force survivors to actually focus on the game. Once hook or gen pop happens, effect is gone, timer is set to 0.
3 survivors left? 6minutes from gen pop / last hook.
2 survivors left? 5mins
1 survivor left? No need for anything, it's RNG hatch game.
It's an idea from top of my head, but it's quite simple - if survivors are not progressing for extended amount of time and killer is not getting any hooks - killer gets a small buff. So game can't be held hostage. It could also be dependant on how many gens are left, not only on survivors left alive. It does not have to be haste, can be anything significant. Times could be adjusted too if needed. Survivors should NOT suffer from it, unless they are wall-lickers, trying to hide from killer to prolong the game for no reason.
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This is actually a good idea for a different reason; when my friends and I first started playing DbD, we treated it like an actual horror game with an actual killer after us; we urban immersioned the crap out of every game. Games against us could easily take 45 minutes while we stealthed around. We weren't holding the game hostage, we legit just thought we were supposed to hide from the killer. (We couldn't loop, of course, being new to the game) There needs to be something to happen in game where things start to get bad if enough progress isn't made by certain points. Originally, I would have thought of this just for immersion gamers, but lately, there is another issue; I have legit seen games with 1 generator left, where I am looping the killer, but because ONE survivor died, the other two won't touch a gen, because they are hiding near hatch. Even if I loop the killer for 3 minutes, there is no progress, because they just walk between lockers. I hate to say it, but nothing makes me more spiteful towards my fellow survivors than hatch campers who give up at one gen because we lost a single person. (Except DCers, cause ######### them.)
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