RUIN is crutch?
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@The_Crusader said:
You could take Billy and give him NOED, Ruin and an ebony mori. That's really making him strong.But then wheres the fun in that? To me thats the "I can't stand losing" build.
Its like when you get 4 man SWF with BNP, instaheals, DS and all their meta perks.
Wheres the fun when the game is that easy?
But then maybe its just me. Im one of those rare people who prefers to play without NOED and to win the game normally.
It capitalizes on his strengths, but you also don't compensate for his weaknesses. That's where the balance comes from. You're still weak to the same things as before if you only push on your strengths.
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Orion said:
@The_Crusader said:
You could take Billy and give him NOED, Ruin and an ebony mori. That's really making him strong.But then wheres the fun in that? To me thats the "I can't stand losing" build.
Its like when you get 4 man SWF with BNP, instaheals, DS and all their meta perks.
Wheres the fun when the game is that easy?
But then maybe its just me. Im one of those rare people who prefers to play without NOED and to win the game normally.
It capitalizes on his strengths, but you also don't compensate for his weaknesses. That's where the balance comes from. You're still weak to the same things as before if you only push on your strengths.
I need NOED on Nurse because she's weak to these darn gen rushersOrion said:@The_Crusader said:
You could take Billy and give him NOED, Ruin and an ebony mori. That's really making him strong.But then wheres the fun in that? To me thats the "I can't stand losing" build.
Its like when you get 4 man SWF with BNP, instaheals, DS and all their meta perks.
Wheres the fun when the game is that easy?
But then maybe its just me. Im one of those rare people who prefers to play without NOED and to win the game normally.
It capitalizes on his strengths, but you also don't compensate for his weaknesses. That's where the balance comes from. You're still weak to the same things as before if you only push on your strengths.
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@ScottJund said:
Nobody hits great skill checks every single time. Not a single person. And if everyone fails even only two or three skill checks the entire game, thats still more game delay than every other game delay perk there is.Break the totem, problem solved.
PS: Three skill checks would give you an additional 12 seconds of generator repair time, assuming they occur sequentially and not simultaneously on different generators. By comparison, Sloppy Butcher gives you 8 seconds on a single heal with Self Care.4 -
If i had to pick a hex perk i usually pick devour hope. It forces me not to camp. An i get rewarded for it. If im running devour hope on spirit usually my totem doesnt get touched until its to late. Silly survivor's think its haunted grounds lol.1
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Its also RNG on top of it. Say you get 3 skillchecks, and you hit 2 great ones, then you delayed it by a whopping 7 seconds.ScottJund said:
Nobody hits great skill checks every single time. Not a single person. And if everyone fails even only two or three skill checks the entire game, thats still more game delay than every other game delay perk there is.ChesterTheMolester said:
Ruin isn't broken. You basicly bet that survivors can't hit great skillchecks. If they do hit them atleast somewhat consistantly then what you are left with is the worst perk in the game.fedup said:when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
Thats less than some Killers can do with Thanatophobia.
PGTW does roughly equal 3 failed skillchecks, sure its flawed but still more consistant than Ruin.
The flaw with Ruin is that its not consistant in activation and yet reliant on survivors skill, therefore i doubt you can call that broken.0 -
@ChesterTheMolester said:
fedup said:when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
Ruin isn't broken. You basicly bet that survivors can't hit great skillchecks. If they do hit them atleast somewhat consistantly then what you are left with is the worst perk in the game.
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.
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@ScottJund said:
I need NOED on Nurse because she's weak to these darn gen rushersUse whatever you want, dude.
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@ScottJund said:
I need NOED on Nurse because she's weak to these darn gen rushers
Play her on console and you may need NOED because she's weak to that darn FPS LMAO
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Fake direction, hide behind gen, go into a locker, distortion etc.fedup said:@ChesterTheMolester said:
fedup said:when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
Ruin isn't broken. You basicly bet that survivors can't hit great skillchecks. If they do hit them atleast somewhat consistantly then what you are left with is the worst perk in the game.
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.
It has plenty counterplay1 -
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.0 -
@Orion said:
@ScottJund said:
Nobody hits great skill checks every single time. Not a single person. And if everyone fails even only two or three skill checks the entire game, thats still more game delay than every other game delay perk there is.Break the totem, problem solved.
PS: Three skill checks would give you an additional 12 seconds of generator repair time, assuming they occur sequentially and not simultaneously on different generators. By comparison, Sloppy Butcher gives you 8 seconds on a single heal with Self Care.thats if you hit people. ruin breaks the whole early game, when more gens are done, if killer hangs someone it starts the part of the match that leads to his victory, with bbq as a way to connect hangs (then they auto glory in the fact that they dont camp, why you gonna camp with bbq)
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Yeah just instantly teleport to the totem and break it, no time lost at all.Orion said:@ScottJund said:
Nobody hits great skill checks every single time. Not a single person. And if everyone fails even only two or three skill checks the entire game, thats still more game delay than every other game delay perk there is.Break the totem, problem solved.
PS: Three skill checks would give you an additional 12 seconds of generator repair time, assuming they occur sequentially and not simultaneously on different generators. By comparison, Sloppy Butcher gives you 8 seconds on a single heal with Self Care.
It doesn't remove 12 seconds with 3, its closer to 16 with the dead generator time in between failed checks. Sloppy Butcher adds 4 seconds to a normal heal, shortened even further by medkits and perks. If your entire team is only self caring every time they get hit with mangled, your team is stupid.2 -
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.
Man, BBQ has like 6 or 7 counters.
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@Orion said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.if something is used a lot with huge difference with other perks it means that its effective, hugely more effective.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.
Man, BBQ has like 6 or 7 counters.
not really if your doing your stuff and not permanently watching out for the hangs
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@ScottJund said:
Yeah just instantly teleport to the totem and break it, no time lost at all.
It doesn't remove 12 seconds with 3, its closer to 16 with the dead generator time in between failed checks. Sloppy Butcher adds 4 seconds to a normal heal, shortened even further by medkits and perks. If your entire team is only self caring every time they get hit with mangled, your team is stupid.
No need to teleport to it, chances are 1 out of the 4 survivors will find it right next to the first gen they choose to work on.
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@fedup said:
thats if you hit people. ruin breaks the whole early game, when more gens are done, if killer hangs someone it starts the part of the match that leads to his victory, with bbq as a way to connect hangs (then they auto glory in the fact that they dont camp, why you gonna camp with bbq)Ruin has counters and can be permanently destroyed.
@ScottJund said:
Yeah just instantly teleport to the totem and break it, no time lost at all.It doesn't remove 12 seconds with 3, its closer to 16 with the dead generator time in between failed checks. Sloppy Butcher adds 4 seconds to a normal heal, shortened even further by medkits and perks. If your entire team is only self caring every time they get hit with mangled, your team is stupid.
Most Hex perks are gone within the first minute, if that. During that time, generators are still being repaired.
I did neglect to take into account the dead generator time, my apologies.
I don't know what kind of teams you get, but the Survivors I get do use Self Care at any opportunity, even with Sloppy Butcher.0 -
@fedup said:
not really if your doing your stuff and not permanently watching out for the hangs
Then you're not playing optimallly.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
@ScottJund said:
Yeah just instantly teleport to the totem and break it, no time lost at all.
It doesn't remove 12 seconds with 3, its closer to 16 with the dead generator time in between failed checks. Sloppy Butcher adds 4 seconds to a normal heal, shortened even further by medkits and perks. If your entire team is only self caring every time they get hit with mangled, your team is stupid.
No need to teleport to it, chances are 1 out of the 4 survivors will find it right next to the first gen they choose to work on.
the delay it puts on survivors even if its small justifies its greatness, early game is so important
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@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.if something is used a lot with huge difference with other perks it means that its effective, hugely more effective.
Which isn't the same thing as being broken. Sometimes, the other tools are just worthless garbage. Look at Monstrous Shrine, for example. Look at Unrelenting before it was buffed.
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You're also ignoring the opportunity cost of people actually looking for the totem, which is massive. Occasionally you'll get bad luck with people spawning right on it.Orion said:@fedup said:
thats if you hit people. ruin breaks the whole early game, when more gens are done, if killer hangs someone it starts the part of the match that leads to his victory, with bbq as a way to connect hangs (then they auto glory in the fact that they dont camp, why you gonna camp with bbq)Ruin has counters and can be permanently destroyed.
@ScottJund said:
Yeah just instantly teleport to the totem and break it, no time lost at all.It doesn't remove 12 seconds with 3, its closer to 16 with the dead generator time in between failed checks. Sloppy Butcher adds 4 seconds to a normal heal, shortened even further by medkits and perks. If your entire team is only self caring every time they get hit with mangled, your team is stupid.
Most Hex perks are gone within the first minute, if that. During that time, generators are still being repaired.
I did neglect to take into account the dead generator time, my apologies.
I don't know what kind of teams you get, but the Survivors I get do use Self Care at any opportunity, even with Sloppy Butcher.2 -
you cant fight the numbers of this perks usage, its just end story
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@Orion said:
@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.if something is used a lot with huge difference with other perks it means that its effective, hugely more effective.
Which isn't the same thing as being broken. Sometimes, the other tools are just worthless garbage. Look at Monstrous Shrine, for example. Look at Unrelenting before it was buffed.
whats being broken then? its always comparative. you call broken to almost a hack i bet
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@ScottJund said:
You're also ignoring the opportunity cost of people actually looking for the totem, which is massive. Occasionally you'll get bad luck with people spawning right on it.I've had good luck once. To be fair, I don't use Hex perks that much, with the exception of NOED on one Killer.
The opportunity cost is essentially irrelevant at high ranks.@fedup said:
you cant fight the numbers of this perks usage, its just end storyOf course, how dare I point out the holes in your Swiss-cheese logic.
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this sounds like the usual "i lost so i need a good excuse for it. only solution: killer played unfair!" complaint.
you shouldnt even listen to those guys.
instead of improving, they just complain, so tell them to gid gud and move on.1 -
@fedup said:
the delay it puts on survivors even if its small justifies its greatness, early game is so important
Well I guess it's just a matter of preference. Personally, I don't like Ruin and I never equip it, after it was taken out of the game in the first 30 seconds a lot of times. But I wouldn't say it's a crutch, or broken perk at all.
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@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.if something is used a lot with huge difference with other perks it means that its effective, hugely more effective.
Which isn't the same thing as being broken. Sometimes, the other tools are just worthless garbage. Look at Monstrous Shrine, for example. Look at Unrelenting before it was buffed.
whats being broken then? its always comparative. you call broken to almost a hack i bet
Broken means it's overwhelmingly powerful and nearly impossible to beat. Hex perks don't fall under that category because they can literally be destroyed.
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your logic is denial cause youre a nurse using bbq and ruin and cant face the fact that you may not be a godlike light being when you 4 k
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like the people in for honor using only broken characters and saying its all by chance, everything is always balanced for the people that play abusing the unbalances
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of course, person with a nurse in the avatar.
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Your point being? I have a friend whose avatar is a wolf, do you think he's really a wolf?
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I'm curious, do you think anything in the game is overpowered on either side?Orion said:@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
@Orion said:
@fedup said:
its not broken but every coolio killer is using it, same as bbq ( the most broken, it doesnt giv you an opportunity), like, come on dude.BBQ can be countered by hiding behind generators, will be counterable soon by hiding in lockers, and you can also counter it by being within the radius where it doesn't work.
Stuff doesn't have to be broken to be used a lot. Go break the totem, see if Ruin helps in any way afterward.if something is used a lot with huge difference with other perks it means that its effective, hugely more effective.
Which isn't the same thing as being broken. Sometimes, the other tools are just worthless garbage. Look at Monstrous Shrine, for example. Look at Unrelenting before it was buffed.
whats being broken then? its always comparative. you call broken to almost a hack i bet
Broken means it's overwhelmingly powerful and nearly impossible to beat. Hex perks don't fall under that category because they can literally be destroyed.
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why am i gonna choose my favourite killer when i can select this character i never use? outstanding
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way to obvious
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you just destroyed him there xD
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@ScottJund said:
I'm curious, do you think anything in the game is overpowered on either side?On the Killer side there used to be some overpowered perks for which I supported nerfs, such as A Nurse's Calling. I can't speak of add-ons because I rarely use them.
On the Survivor side, I'd say Self-Care and Decisive Strike.
Infinite, self-sustaining heals are not good for the game's balance when getting hit has no long-term consequences. You can get hit as many times as you want, but it won't make any difference in the long run.
Decisive Strike is too easy to use and essentially punishes the Killer for catching a Survivor. It's also a force multiplier (almost useless on bad Survivors, but overwhelmingly powerful on good ones).0 -
@Mister_xD said:
you just destroyed him there xD
what?
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@fedup said:
why am i gonna choose my favourite killer when i can select this character i never use? outstandingI used to play her, but it seemed like every time I played her I got Coldwind Farm, so I stopped. I still admire how she's the one Killer that puts the fear of the Entity into the Survivors' hearts.
TL;DR: There are reasons for picking an avatar other than what character you play most.0 -
"im just going to fervorously defend things and put them on my avatar cause i never use them" its not a court point but its not needed, my god, we are not #########
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@fedup said:
"im just going to fervorously defend things and put them on my avatar cause i never use them" its not a court point but its not needed, my god, we are not #########I'm not saying you are, but apparently you do believe you're psychic, since you believe you know what I do better than me.
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well lets say bbq and ruin are the best perks in the game if you dont like the word broken, but some people use it as the same term
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Is this actually a discussion or just Orion telling everyone they're wrong?
Imo its a crutch, just like DS, Noed and Sprintburst.1 -
@Weederick said:
Is this actually a discussion or just Orion telling everyone they're wrong?
Imo its a crutch, just like DS, Noed and Sprintburst.Plenty of people in this thread, I don't know why you're singling me out.
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I personally don't care about what the killer or survivor uses as perks/addons/or offerings. I just deal and move on. They earned it and should use it how they see fit.
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what are those "plenty of counters" lets see if they dont put you in worst situations or make you waste resources and time
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@Orion said:
@ScottJund said:
I'm curious, do you think anything in the game is overpowered on either side?On the Killer side there used to be some overpowered perks for which I supported nerfs, such as A Nurse's Calling. I can't speak of add-ons because I rarely use them.
On the Survivor side, I'd say Self-Care and Decisive Strike.
Infinite, self-sustaining heals are not good for the game's balance when getting hit has no long-term consequences. You can get hit as many times as you want, but it won't make any difference in the long run.
Decisive Strike is too easy to use and essentially punishes the Killer for catching a Survivor. It's also a force multiplier (almost useless on bad Survivors, but overwhelmingly powerful on good ones).Just seems kind of hypocritical when you said:
@Orion said:
Broken means it's overwhelmingly powerful and nearly impossible to beat. Hex perks don't fall under that category because they can literally be destroyed.Yet you call a perk like A Nurse's Calling overpowered which means you think its "nearly impossible" to just...not heal in a terror radius. You think Self-Care is overpowered, ignoring the literal half-a-generator it takes to self-care yourself. You think Decisive Strike is overpowered, ignoring how much Enduring weakens it, or how they can just be slugged, or how they can be dribbled, etc.
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