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Suggestion (I hate suggestions) regarding facecamping/camping

Sypherpathic
Sypherpathic Member Posts: 488
edited June 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

Why not just give bloodpoints to the the survivor on hook when the killer is camping? I'm effectively 'keeping the killer busy', so why not?

You could count it within a certain radius and have done with it. Say 5m or 10m or something. Maybe as long as the default Kindred would show the killer's aura?

I mean, it's no penalty to the killer and gives something to the poor schlub that's being camped.

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • Edgars_Raven
    Edgars_Raven Member Posts: 1,236

    Agreed, thats always felt like a better solution. And it shouod be applied periodically. Example: After 20 secs on the hook recieve 1000bps, applied every 20 secs. This would incentivize the hooked person to stay which screws the camper

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    I honestly agree with this. Something like a 'Distraction' bonus, because the Killer is so fascinated by the Survivor on the hook that he's forgetting to do his duty to hunt down the rest. And it encourages people to stop wussing out on first hook.


    I also, however, think that anyone who gets hooked for the first time within, say 3 minutes of match start, should LOSE BP if they try to kobe, then fail every 2nd stage skillcheck. Because, at that point, it's obvious they are wussing out & screwing over their team.

  • HaunterofShadows
    HaunterofShadows Member Posts: 4,092

    I'm down

  • Shaped
    Shaped Member Posts: 5,911

    Keeping the killer busy while not doing anything. But when I think about it doing gens is not much different and it gives you points.

  • A_Skinny_Legend
    A_Skinny_Legend Member Posts: 919

    That's a wonderful idea. At least I can say thanks for the bloodpoints to the next camper I face.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I think it should go further. If a killer is within 32 meters of a hooked survivor, EGC isn't active and the killer isn't in a chase, every 10 seconds, the survivor gets 1000 bps and the killer loses 1000 bps.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    No. The Killer does not need to be punished. Survivors would abuse this by camping nearby to force the Killer to camp.

    People need to stop trying to invent punishments for petty reasons.

  • Edgars_Raven
    Edgars_Raven Member Posts: 1,236

    The killer loses a thousand if theyre with 32 meters of a hooked survivor? Are you high 😂😂 seriously do you even play this game 😂😂😂😂😂

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Yes, the killer does need to be punished for camping. It stunts the ability of the killer to improve in skill and it actively causes a player to not be able to play the game.

    If a survivor is camping nearby and the Killer isn't chasing the survivor, then the killer is intentionally camping. Either the killer sees the survivor and chases him or the killer doesn't see the survivor and leaves the area? Can you think of another reason why a killer would just stay around a hooked survivor?

  • HaunterofShadows
    HaunterofShadows Member Posts: 4,092

    Still no. 32 meters is an absurd distance plus there is still the loss of emblem points

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    I can think of how it would be abused:

    Survivor #4 is hooked. #3 and #2 stand out in the open, where the Killer can see them, but too far away to be chased easily.

    Now the Killer has to decide between a punishment, or giving up a free unhook.


    Stop with this BS. It was tried with a slowed/paused Struggle Timer back in the day, and Survivors abused it EXACTLY how I just described.

    Just because you dislike camping does not mean it needs a punishment to force Killers to conform to your made up rules. Rewarding the Survivor is enough.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    So your reasoning is that Survivor #2 and #3 are giving you a far easier chase target than you would normally get, yet you would prefer and sit in front of a hooked survivor and camp them?

    I mean think about it, if Survivor #2 and #3 weren't sitting out in the open, then you would have to find Survivor #2 and Survivor #3, then start a chase.

    In your scenario, Survivor #2 and #3 and letting you being a chase right off the bat instead of having to search for someone.

    How does this justify camping?

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    When you are causing another player to not be able to play a game for 2 minutes, plus queue time, then yes, camping does need justification. Why do you think this type of behavior does not need justification?

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    It does not need justifying.

    Killer's don't need your permission, or need to write Survivors an essay on why they need to camp, to get permission to do so.

    They also don't have to chase Survivors just because they see them, like you seem to think.


    If I see a Survivor slinking around; a good bet is that his friend is ALSO nearby. That's 3 of 4 people around the hook. 3 of 4 people not doing gens.

    Why the hell would I walk away from the hook at that point? Because Survivors demand I do so? Sorry, but I'm not a bloody AI; I don't have to do what you want, nor give you chances for unhooks. You failed to save your friend when you showed yourself to me. As a reasoning human being, I cam be rather sure you're not alone. I'll try to hit you, but I won't bail on the hook because you demand I 'play fair'.


    You're trying to win, and I'm trying to win. You don't get to decide how, or when, I get to try killing Survivors. You don't get to demand I be punished because you don't like how I went about winning.

    I'm your opponent; if you can't accept that your opponent will try their best to win, then maybe you need to rethink how PvP games work. Not trying to be insulting, but allot of 'Punish camping!' threads boil down to people not understanding that Killers can try just as hard as Survivors to win.

  • HaunterofShadows
    HaunterofShadows Member Posts: 4,092

    Because it has been said many times it is a valid strategy.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    The justification is that the Killer is trying to kill you. There; justified. Not the Killer's fault you seem to think we have to do it as slowly and inefficiently as possible under some made up honor system.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Exactly. Aside from EGC, a killer is rewarded for playing poorly and for ruining another players experience by camping.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Read page 2, buddy. Camping punishes itself, and SURVIVORS reward it by going TOWARDS the camping killer instead of doing gens.

    I love this mindset of 'Camping is rewarded by Killers!'. it's 100% WRONG. Survivors reward it by walking into the waiting arms of the thing trying to find them, then whine that Killers are being unfair over what is, at it's core, bad SURVIVOR play.


    If Survivors do gens instead of walk towards a camping Killer; the Killer gets ONE kill before 3-5 gens pop. How is that not punishment?

    Oh right; because the Killer got an 'unfair kill'. 🙄 I will go blind if I roll my eyes any harder.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2021

    The person playing killer makes the decision to camp. That person has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for 2 minutes plus the amount of time it took to get into a match.

    The person that has decided to remove another person's ability to play the game for, at the minimum of about 7 minutes, does not deserve to be rewarded but does deserve to be punished by whatever is necessary to change that type of behavior. Right now, the punishment is not severe enough.

  • Sypherpathic
    Sypherpathic Member Posts: 488

    LOL maybe on hook we could hold a button to get the BP?

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    You don't seem to understand that the Killer's goal is to remove everyone from the match. All you can focus on is HOW they did it, say you don't approve, and demand they be punished for not doing it in a Survivor Approved(tm) way.

    Sorry, but you're wrong. The Killer does not deserve to be punished because they did not let Survivors get an unhook, or did not chase the first survivor they saw like a brainless AI NPC.

    You don't get to decide what are fair ways, times, or methods to which the Killer has to adhere too, or face justice.


    So again, no. No, there should not be a BP punishment, or ANY punishment, for camping/tunneling/slugging, just because you don't approve of it. That's not how balance works. That's not how player agency works.


    Give the hooked Survivor BP for being camped, so the match is not a total waste for them. That's all.

    Those screaming for 'punishments' are saying 'Force Killers to play by my pre-approved methods, regardless of circumstances. I demand my fake rules be followed!'

    But game balance does not work like that, sorry. The opposing team does not get to decide how their opponent plays, because the opposing team, wanting to win, will always have a bias in those rules.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    You are reacting, you are not thinking.

    You agree that allowing one person to completely remove the ability of another person from playing your game is bad game design from a game developers perspective?

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    No, I don't. Because the Killer's goal is to remove a person from playing the game.

    This is how Counter Strike works.

    This is how PubG and Fortnite and Apex Legends work.


    It's almost like your goal is to avoid being eliminated. *Insert Shocked Pikachu here*

    Only people who can't stand losing pretend it's a problem in games where the goal of both, or one, side is to eliminate the other.

  • Sypherpathic
    Sypherpathic Member Posts: 488

    The purpose of a game is entertainment and some might say fun. Or at least, at it's barest, some sense of accomplishment or engagement.

    Being on a hook while a killer stares at you or while a killer pretends to 'patrol' a tiny area near the hook when there are three other survivors and a bunch of generators to engage with is not fun or engaging or anything for the person on the hook.

    Honestly, I don't think that aligning with the killer's 'goals' should be at the top of the list for how the game is designed. I think that providing an entertaining match for 5 people should be the goal. Since survivors can be removed by some killer behaviors and the opposite is not true, in some arenas, some things should benefit the 4 players playing survivor over the one playing killer - at the very least, the killer cannot be removed before the match completes, so this is something that survivors have to face.

    In any case, the discussion isn't about removing players from the match but about giving something to the player that is stuck on hook while a killer does nothing but pay attention to that person on the hook. It happens kind of a lot. I get rewarded for chases, so why not something for keeping the killer's attention (albeit unintentionally), on hook?

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    I already agreed that Survivors should get BP for 'distracting' a camping Killer, to remove the sting of being camped, and make it so short matches are not so painful.

    And there should NOT be some balance based on the fact that Survivors can't remove Killers; this is literally the premise of the game. Survivors hide and use pallets to SLOW DOWN the Killer, not fight back. To claim that is a flaw is to misunderstand what game balance is as a whole,ad to misunderstand this game as a whole.

    Also; the Killer HAS to be stronger 1v1 because he has to be as strong as 4 Survivors. If 1 Survivor could be as strong as 1 Killer, than a 4V1 would ALWAYS end in Survivor's favor. So saying the arenas have to favor Survivors is to, again, misunderstand the entire game.

    If the Killer has to face 4 people, and the map favors those 4 people over the ONE Killer, then the Killer has almost no chance. We already see that in some maps.


    So, again; I agree that Survivors should get BP if a Killer camps.

    But in no way whatsoever, should a Killer be punished, because some Survivors think camping is 'unfair' because it eliminates Survivors...In a game where the Killer's goal is to eliminate people!

    That's basically saying 'It's unfair (or 'unfun') that the Killer killed me. Punish them.'

  • Moundshroud
    Moundshroud Member Posts: 4,458

    I've suggested this myself, i.e. if you ran the Killer for a number of Generators you would be earning points and Emblem Advancement. If you are holding them to you, because they want to camp, it has the same effect. I don't think it does any harm to award points to the Hooked Survivor when the Killer is near and not in a chase.

  • tolore
    tolore Member Posts: 101

    yeah totally agree on the BP for the hooked person, it's on my list of changes of I'd make to make camping feel less bad. I do not at all favor the removing of BP or ANY punishment for camping. There are too many variables wh ere IMO, camping is a totally legit option, no system involving punishments will hit only degenerate cases. What if there's a pallet/gen I need to kick, should i let those powerful objects stay because i don't want to camp? What if there's TWO regressing gens, should I not defend two regressing gens and a hook? What if there are two close together hooks, and i got two survivors on them? should I just let t hem get unhooked? What if I'm a new player and don't have BBQ, and i have no idea what to do? should you drain literally ALL that new player's BP? that's a ludicrous punishment for a non crime.


    not to mention the suggestion as written was "10 seconds" if a killer doesn't know where to go and chase the first survivor they see they could still lose thousands depending on how long it takes the first survivor to get there. Suggestions like that just seem like a childish attempt to hurt people you don't like without a lot of nuance.

  • Sypherpathic
    Sypherpathic Member Posts: 488

    Oh yeah, I completely agree on not punishing the killer. Being stationary while (theoretically), the other survivors are working on generators or other goals is enough. I suppose that's enough for this discussion. My point was that one survivor can't really ruin the killer's fun as they can at least strike back or move on to other goals, survivors or areas of the map. A survivor can have the fun sucked right out of the game if a killer makes it their goal to get that survivor killed first above doing anything else.