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Should dead hard get nerfed?
Comments
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wrong thread.
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So "1 second of speed" gives you 20 seconds of chase time. How long do you think "3 seconds of speed" gives you in chase time? At least 22 seconds but would actually be more because the survivor has even more time to get to a better loop than the "1 seconds of speed" gives you.
And you don't have to walk everywhere for Sprint Burst, that is crazy talk. Sprint Burst comes back plenty fast enough that you can use it to get to objectives faster and have it ready for the next chase. So not only is Sprint Burst wasting your time with chasing, it speeds up doing gens, which killers don't notice.
BTW, Dead Hard's downside is being injured. If Leatherface is chasing me with an insta-down chainsaw while I'm healthy, Sprint Burst is going to get me to a pallet or window. Dead Hard will do absolutely nothing. Against an insta-down killer, Dead Hard is going to cost you 1 hook state. Sprint Burst never costs you a hook state.
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Survivors have a perk to dash forwards for half a second, and somehow that’s more OP than tinkerer on blight
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You really aren't reading my post, every other perk has a downside.
Sprint burst requires you to walk
Smash hit requires you to land a pallet stun (which is already normally a chase ender) and is riskier to use, additionally killer's can play around it by respecting the pallet.
Lithe requires you to vault something, and by it's nature means you aren't looping as efficiently.
Balanced is highly dependent on map and/or only usable at certain parts of the map
Head on can't really be used in a chase
Adrenaline activates once per game.
Dead hard, just is. Yeah, you have to be injured, but if you are being chased you are likely going to be injured at some point.
If a survivor runs off with sprint burst they can't use it for 40 seconds. That is a really long time in this game, that is half a gen. Meanwhile i'm patrolling the gens and looking for them.
But again, you aren't challenging my point. Please explain to me how i, as a killer counter dead hard for distance? I'll wait.
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Whataboutism, please stay on topic and actually challenge the idea and present facts and have a real discussion. Using a whataboutism, or any other logical fallacy for that matter implies that my point is correct as you have no way to challenge my claims.
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No. I'm in the spirit is okay camp. I suck with nurse so I'm not sure as I don't play her enough to comment. They are not a instawin by playing with them but they are like hex perks: high risk high reward. If you are good at playing them they are difficult to beat but that's the way it should be. Rewarded for talent. I will say, they can crush games and maybe throw the curve. I watched Otz's DH spirit video and I really didn't understand the argument. Yeah hard to predict but why would you just stand at the pallet and rely solely on DH?
I agree with you. DH resets loops making it incredibly strong. But I am an anti-nerfer. Coined that political party right here and now. Join us.
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So does Dead Hard. You are pretending like it doesn't.
But I tell you what. Prove to us that Dead Hard is so freaking overpowered.
Get out Excel and take down the average length of chases using Dead Hard vs Sprint Burst. Survivor starts at a gen. Killer starts 32 meters out. Do the exact same looping path for both Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. The survivor can wait at the gen till the last moment till the killer gets there and can Sprint Burst away, which is what survivors do in higher ranks.
I guarantee that Sprint Burst will beat Dead Hard over and over again.
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Do you DC if you lose all your hex perks in 60 seconds. If not, we can be cool. High risk/ high reward.
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I don't even need a spreadsheet for that, simple math.
Sprint burst lets survivors run at 6.0 m/s for 3 seconds. The killer moves at 4.6 m/s. That means if the survivor waits till the last second to activate it and the killer follows them, they gained 1.4 * 3 = 4.2 meters on the killer. Lunge range is 6 meters, so you just wait the sprint burst out and lunge at them. Waiting till the last second isn't optimal, it's better to use it earlier. But, again, if you do that and you play to the shift + w meta, again, all you did was gain 4.2 meters in the chase, which since a killer moves .6 meters faster than a survivor, if both are running in a straight line, sprint burst gained you a total of 7 seconds with 4.2 / .6 = 7.
Sprint burst is not as good compared to dead hard. It's strength is that you can sprint burst away from a dead zone and get to somewhere that isn't a dead zone.
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No it does not.
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No, i did DC once when i had lethal pursuer, undying and ruin and all 4 survivors spawned spread out. 2 of them spawned on 2 different gens, 2 of them spawned on top of my 2 hexes. I literally ran to the nearest hex perk, but couldn't make it, and lost both hexes in < 20 seconds, while the other 2 survivors had 1/4 of 2 gens completed. But in general i don't really like hex perks anyway, it was just all i had unlocked at the time for nemesis.
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Fair enough. I'm no survivor main. I 60/40 typically and switch which side I favor every other month. Not happy when either side DCs because things don't go their way.
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Felt like physics class reading this.
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Bbq already got nerfed, DH is still the same.
Bbq has over 10 counters.
DH by itself can be baited, DH for distance can't, bbq can't give you are free health state, DH can.
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I prefer survivors run Dead Hard because at least it is interactive. People act like Decisive Strike was gutted, but I can only imagine the horror of that perk before if this is the "useless" version.
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Another day another dead hard complaint. ######### it! Nerf the damm perk so rank 20s can be happy lol
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Yeah, Dead Hard could really use a change. Using it for distance literally has zero counterplay.
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And Dead Hard gained less than 5 seconds. Sprint Burst wins.
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Yes, it should be nerfed. It's a No Skill high Reward Perk and the (stronger) Survivor Version of Noed.
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Isn't it already? I'm almost always getting hit in the middle or end of a dead hard.
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DH should have an animation lock of a couple seconds after use.
Sprint Burst shouldn't be 150%.
Everything else is fine.
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Absolutely
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deathslinger/huntress doesn't even work either because you'll trigger their iframes and get nothing.
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But you can also just walk away if someone used dh for distance. Somehow, that doesnt seem like counterplay to me.
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Not true, dead hard lets you get to a pallet or window you otherwise would not.
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As a Killer Main, Dead Hard is fine I quite enjoy it. Always on the back foot when in chase makes it fun imo
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No it’s fine, especially since killers like deathslinger exist.
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Running off of the logic you are using, this means that killer perks such as BBQ and Chili, Nurse's Calling, No One Escapes Death, etc should also receive a nerf as they are seen quite frequently in games. Just because something is used a lot does not mean it is OP. It means it is useful (and quite frankly if some of the other perks weren't so useless maybe we would see some variety). If you see it so much then why haven't you learned to counter it by now? You can bait out Dead Hard with a mind game fairly easy. One of the main issues with the community of this game is instead of learning to play against something they complain until it is nerfed.
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Is this not backwards thinking? If Dead Hard is activated, it means you've done damage and can potentially down them, if you run away every time you see Sprint Burst you end up doing nothing, lol.
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I would rather Coup de Grace be a carbon copy of Dead Hard instead. What's good for the goose is good for gander.
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no
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then neither does NoED
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No, but I do feel like a lot of other perks should be buffed to offer some variety in play.
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I've had 1 single well timed dead hard turn into another 60 ######### second chase.
Where as if they didn't dead hard across the pallet I would have downed them.
If they had sprint burst I'll wait till sprint burst is over then down them without an issue.
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Yeah, remove the aura reading, tell the killers to stay camping the hook.
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100%, If it's used this often it should clearly show how strong it is.
All they should do is remove the ability to interact with anything for 1.5s after using it, and remove the ability to DH over Traps.
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It always makes me laugh how some people are completely oblivious to sarcasm, my point is that just because a perk is used a lot doesn't justify a nerf.
and besides, killers camped even while having BBQ so your point is really moot, killers will camp if they want regardless, survivor hiding in a locker to avoid BBQ? Must be near the hook so I'll camp, happens all the time.
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How the heck does Dead Hard get you to a pallet or window that Sprint Burst doesn't also get you to the exact same pallet or window but 2 seconds earlier. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.
Sprint Burst = 3 seconds
Dead Hard = 1 second
Please explain how Dead Hard is getting you to somewhere faster than Sprint Burst.
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Because you can't use the sprint burst in the chase. You use it right at the start of the chase. So i, as a killer, have options. Dead hard only activates and becomes usable after you already spent 30-60 seconds finding and chasing the survivor then just are about to land the down and BAM, dead hard to a window for distance, now i have to spend another 30 seconds chasing you (and that is assuming you don't use vaults or pallets).
Sprint burst, because it happens at the start of the chase, i can choose to NOT chase you, and go for someone else, especially if i see you are running to a part of the map that has no generator. Additionally, even if you do use it, and i follow, all it did was get you to another loop. It didn't let you extend the chase other than the "hold w" aspect, which isn't even why it is strong. Hold w is it's own problem, but all it does is add 7 seconds to the time it takes for me to catch up to you if all you do is hold w. Not nearly as long as dead hard. The strength of sprint burst is that you can repair generators in a dead zone and safely get to an area with pallets if the killer shows up.
Dead hard is effectively a 3rd health state. You do a chase, loop around something for 30 seconds, land a hit. Do another chase, loop around something for 30 seconds, dead hard. Loop around something for 30 seconds, 2nd hit. In the hands of good players, dead hard becomes a 3rd health state.
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No. First of all, the detection works about as well as pallets do.
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Blight, chainsaw bros, omega blink Nurse...... Huntress, Spirit, Clown, Myers/Ghostface (free stalk prep, they usually just run in a straight open line). I started the list with just a couple to have a chuckle, but then it started piling on.
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so these powers counter a 150% speed boost for 3 seconds but don't counter a 1 metre dash? lol ok
clearly you just proved dead hard has so many counters, right?>
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No, I was answering when you asked, specifically, about counters to sprint burst. I spake nothing about dead hard or intended for it to seem so.
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Let me simplify.
- Dead Hard = 1 sec
- Sprint Burst = 3 sec
- Lithe = 3 sec
- Balanced Landing = 3 sec
- Head On = 3 sec
- Smash Hit = 4 sec
The time each ability gives you is the exact same every time. Just because Dead Hard can ONLY be activated in the second part of a chase, doesn't mean it gives you more time. Lithe, Balanced Landing, Head On and Smash Hit can ALL be activated at the start or the second part of a chase.
Dead Hard has a downside, like every other exhaustion perk. In fact it's downside is much worse than Sprint Burst, Lithe and sometimes Balanced Landing. You have to be injured, you can't use Dead Hard at all against one-hit downs in a healthy state, you only run in a straight line and you only get 1 second out of it.
The only difference in Dead Hard is it has invulnerability for a split second, and honestly Head On gives you 3 seconds of invulnerability functionally.
You act like breaking off a chase is game breaking for Sprint Burst, where in fact it means you spend that much more time not in a chase which is much much worse than an extra IMAGINED 30 seconds of chase time with Dead Hard, (You are definitely not doing an extra 30 seconds of chase time every time someone uses Dead Hard) that you also have to do with Lithe, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit (However they give you even more chase time)
Also, every single exhaustion perk is a single key press to outplay, so that's a really really bad argument.
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If you want a perk nerfed, then present unbiased hard data. Not made up scenarios that mean absolutely nothing or a single video. Get out excel and document. Otherwise you're building your entire argument on a strawman
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Can you explain how these counter sprint burst?
Blight - Bounce towards survivor, they're faster than you, have to stop your power or be incredibly lucky to hit
Billy - Rev chainsaw, survivor sprints away, have to now be at a complete different angle to likely get the hit especially if they go to an object
Leatherface - lmao what? you realise if you rev up, and the survivor sprints away you will have to drop the saw and take a small penalty fordoing so
Nurse - literally counters everything and you especially don't need omega blink nurse to counter sprint
Huntress - again ??? your hatchet is fast but you're not time bender so you're likely to predict where they're going with sprint
Spirit - phase towards survivor, they sprint burst, unless your running broken addons your power will run out before you reach
Clown - throw bottle, they sprint because it's a slow projectile, wasted time gg
Myers / Ghost - had a rather massive chuckle at these two honestly, you think halving the time spent infront of killers that need you to spend time infront of them is.... a counter?
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You can actually use Mindbreaker against Sprint Burst.
I wouldn't mind Dead Hard staying the way it is if there's at least a decent perk to counter it
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How'd I forget Mindbreaker? That's a good one.
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bAiT iT OuT xd
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Again, you are looking at it as if someone is using them both in a flat plane with nothing in it. You don't dead hard into nothing, you dead hard to a pallet or window.
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I feel like you are intentionally being thick. When you use these abilities are you using them in a flat plane of a map with no objects in it? Or are there loops, pallets, windows and structures?
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