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Penalize Camping Killers
Comments
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Behaviour please, punish camping Killers, but let us survivors keep genrushing games in less than 5 minutes.
We only want to Rush and escape as 4 players premade, not Fair getting camped :(
Nerf Killers please, we want to do a basement rescue against Bubba and then tbag Him at the doors
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DO THE GENS
You can say it sucks for the guy on the hook all you want, you can say that it's bad form. It doesn't change the fact that doing the gens is still THE RIGHT PLAY and finishes the game faster then feeding the camper.
Besides... half the time people call "camper" you can point to the survivors and how they brought it about. Either by fast saves, looping nearby, or getting caught near the last generators.
And Frankly, why should people NOT camp when I don't see survivors exactly slowing down on gens either.
Both sides play to win, deal with it.
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You get send into timeout and might be eliminated with the first hook. That has ALWAYS been the truth in this game. You're never entitled to getting a second chance either.
There is never a time in the game a survivor "didnt get to play the game" when he actually did and failed splendidly by gtting downed and hooked.
Imagine CS players going like " i didnt like i got sniped through a door, let me respawn".
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Relocate the hook. Create a boundary around at the base of the hook. Slow down the killer near the hook. Disable their power near the hook. Disable grabbing near the hook. Make Camaraderie base kit and last longer. Make Slippery Meat base kit and if you succeed, give the player endurance. Make unhooking a player faster the longer the killer is near it.
A lot of ways. As I said before: theres no way to make camping fun for survivors and killers both. That doesnt mean the games balance is a tragedy. The killer has 3 other survivors to chase and play with. So it should stay that way.
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Relocate the hook ~ What is this predicated on? The Killer's proximity to the Survivor? It can't be, since other Survivors can sit within the Killer's LOS to force a relocation.
Create a boundary ~ That would remove hook grabs entirely and make any rescue guaranteed.
Slowing down the Killer ~ Looping near the hook just became a lot more popular, congratulations.
Disable their power near the hook ~ Again, looping just became hugely viable near hook. You are creating potential infinite's. But, of course, that wouldn't ever be abused.
Disable grabs ~ Ah, yes. Take away any skill required to unhook someone. Go for a stupid unhook? No worries, you can't be grabbed!
Camaraderie Basekit ~ No, because this will allow people to leave each other on hook to rush gens. Camaraderie is already 34 extra seconds of time and you want to buff that and make it basekit? No.
Slipper Meat basekit with Endurance ~ No. 4% should stay 4% because being able to unhook yourself is extremely powerful.
Unhooking is faster the longer the Killer is nearby ~ Again, this gets abused instantly. Loop the Killer nearby for a second and farm a free unhook.
The Killer has to chase 3 other Survivors who will be having the easiest games of their lives if any of your proposed changes go live.
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I didn't tell you that so you could pick them apart. Though I totally understand your reason for asking and saw this coming a mile away. I'll repeat it one last time so maybe you'll see my point: camping cannot be fun for killers and survivors. Give survivors an opportunity to play. Killers have 3 other people to play with. Not going to argue beyond that.
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Killer can still play... Is it fun, though? No. Camping stops the survivor from actually playing the game. It's a problem that does need a fix.
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If they were bad ideas, and you knew they were, then why did you say them? Of course I'm going to point out their flaws, who wouldn't.
Let's say we do it your way. Killers are no longer allowed to camp. What's the compensation?
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There has to be a way. Do I know what that is? No. I don't think it's impossible.
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They played beforehand.
What's your idea for compensation? A speed boost until you get within X meters of a Survivor(s) after a successful hook? Default BBQ aura-reading?
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Well, I can't think of one. You can't think of one. BHVR can't think of one.
So it seems pretty unlikely that it's going to happen.
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I didn't say that I knew they were bad ideas. They are not bad ideas, even when you try to pick them apart as you've done already. The purpose of those changes are there to be a disadvantage for the killer. If they choose to camp a hook knowing that, then it's their own fault.
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Will it happen? Who knows.
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Oh, okay. They aren't supposed to be balanced, got it. Glad we established that.
Which brings us to the crux of the issue. This isn't a balance discussion. It's about how it feels and it feels different for different people.
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Right, camping is not supposed to be balanced. I think I tried to tell you 3 or 4 times now
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Wanna see something cool?
Camping is a part of the game. To nerf one side (that is already at a disadvantage) and give the other side a massive buff, you need to balance it out.
I've tried to argue with you in good faith, but you are totally uninterested in the facts I've presented. You only seem to care about how it feels and as such, there is no way for me to convince you.
Ergo, there is no point for this discussion to continue.
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Honestly I think if devour and bbq were basekit, that would solve it. No more facecamping, and everyone gets to play. How about it?
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That’sa great idea. If a killer wants to sit in front of a hooked survivor, let the other survivors finish the gens faster so we can move on to the next game.
But what if the killer is around that hooked survivor because they’re chasing another survivor? How will the game know the difference!? The game knows. It’s not hard to program an exception like “if killer chasing 2nd survivor, gens repair at regular speed.” What about a game where you have 2 stories? Devs can write code for 1st/2nd floor for location.
What’s your incentive as a killer to leave that hooked survivor? To kill survivorS. To prevent gens from being completed. To prevent those meddling kids from getting off the map. I’m not sure how watching paint dry (people dye on hooks) is fun for anyone. You have things like Tinkerer, BBQ & Chili, Pop, Nurse’s Calling, etc. where you CAN SEE where players are. Legion can see players nearby when his abilities activate. Freddy can teleport to gens being worked on. Demi can teleport too and has a perk where he can see survivors when he comes out of portals. Pin can teleport to whoever has his box and the stupid chain frenzy that works across THE ENTIRE MAP for about a hot minute (I haven’t actually timed it).
Good killers can take out all survivors without a single gen getting done. And I will die happily on those killer’s hooks.
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Alright, I take it you’re regularly a killer. What would incentive you to go hunt other survivors rather then sit there watching grass grow?
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Make devour hope basekit, but add 2 stacks to each requirement, so it takes more hooks to get the Mori and exposed. Also make BBQ basekit, along with Empathy on survivor side.
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For the same reason survivors don't get punished for blocking hooks and the killer.
Because devs don't care and everyone feels entitled to play how they want for a game they paid for.
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I'm not worried about what is or isn't considered part of the game. The fact that it's considered part of the game is an issue in and of itself. And there are ways to fix that, which you asked me to present to you. But for some reason your only desire was to try and prove that "camping can't be balanced", which again I told you was also true. So where are we going with this exactly?
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Yeah no, Pyramid head already has that ability and it's not that usefull, old PH was funnier because he could put his trail near the cage
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Well maybe if you didn't swarm the hook the second the guy gets hooked, the killer would have a reason to step away from the hook. Seriously that guy can marinate on the hook for like 15 seconds and still be on first hook state. Give the killer some room to breathe.
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I think you can still put the trail near the cage but you need to be quick, if you stay near the cage for too long it moves away, the trail should stay active.
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You don't have time, if you are already near the cage and try to put your trail, cages already moves after 5 seconds of being in the radius
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There's already a remedy: doing gens.
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Just try to kobe and then dont hit skillchecks on hook and go to the next game.
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Hook penalties have been tried in the past - they did nothing except open nasty exploits that the survivors could take advantage of.
There's already things in place that curtail the worst of the behaviors - such as certain powers not being usable a certain distance from the hook
There's also perks that let killers trade giving the hook distance in exchange for points or power in exchange - and the worst among our playerbase complained about that as well.
The bottom line is this... there is 4 survivors, 1 killer. Factor that in with the following
- it takes 2 minutes (120 seconds) to die on first hook
- it takes 80 seconds solo a generator, times that by the number of survivors in play.
There is literally no reason more than 1 survivor should die if a killer camps on first down other than unmitigated greed for points and misplaced altruism where you shouldn't be showing any in the first place.
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@Kira15233 That's true, but I wonder what the mechanic will be.
@DaWeezerd As the devs said, this isn't what happens, so a remedy to face camping is coming. And on your other point, I agree about swarming. Especially the people without BT that instantly rescue before The Killer could even move an inch away and then complain about camping and tunneling.
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How is that a solution? Why is it okay for one player to just create a situation that isn't fun for four other players and where the only way out is to essentially not play the game?
Being camped isn't fun. Sitting on generators because someone else is being camped isn't fun. The only person having fun in that situation (maybe) is the Killer. No one else is having fun that game. I don't think that's okay.
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No fun for what should only be 5 minutes out of your night. Seems like a good trade in order to get past a bad player.
To me, no fun for 5 minutes is better than dealing with rehooks from a camper for the next 10 minutes because you keep feeding them. Besides... if you do it enough you'll eventually train them that it's not profitable.
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There is no guarantee that you won't get another camper in your next game. And even if it's "just" 5 minutes, why is that okay? Why is it okay for someone to just ruin the fun of other people?
Besides... if you do it enough you'll eventually train them that it's not profitable.
Camping complaints are as old as the game itself. Your advice is too. How many more years do you think it will take for the campers to stop? Apparently five years was not enough.
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I’m ok with allowing the Haste part of Devour as a basekit. But being able to down or permanent exposure is just asking killers to stay near hooked survivors just so you can down more survivors.
I’m not sure how to feel about BBQ as a basekit. As a survivor, I feel it gives killers too much of an edge because you’d be able to have that trigger at least 7 times in one game. On top of whatever other perk you might have to see me running around.
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My advice is old because PEOPLE REFUSE TO TRAIN THESE KILLERS OTHERWISE.
I guarantee that if players actually punished these killers properly, you'd see less of them. And even if they are a legit salt-miner looking to get a rise out of you - too many in this community feed said trolls by giving them the salt they're feeding on.
This community is in a purgatory of their own making - but they're so entitled or lacking in self-awareness they just can't see it.
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If they stay near hooked survivors, then they aren't getting stacks on devour for the Mori. If they are at the point of getting the Mori, (under the higher requirements, say 7 stacks instead of 5) they won't be hooking people anymore. (9hooks is a 4k after all)
BBQ doesn't last for very long, far enough away and it's basically just a guess at the survivor's general location because it's gone before you start moving.
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Only it isn't because you came here after I commented on a prokiller thing with facts about how it breaks gameplay. Then you continued to not add anything to the topic here like I haven't seen you commenting on multiple people's threads telling them they are wrong for wanting it penalized. So where did you see it was only me again? Oh that's right you want to use pointless objections using the rules we are trying to change. Got it lol.
You have no ground to stand on and it's just as bad as over-vaulting and facers should be treated as such. Penalized for abusing it
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Hook camping is just something that is sometimes nessicary and punishing it because it hurts your feelings is not how you balance the game.
If a I hook a survivor near gens or a totem you can bet your ass I will stick around that area because it allows me to pressure multiple survivor objectives.
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Camping isn't an issue because it hurts anyone's feelings. If it hurt their feelings then they should take a break because they've probably been camped numerous times over a span of several games.
Camping is an issue because it holds a player hostage against their will which coincidentally is a reportable offense. Whether or not camping is acceptable or not is irrelevant information. In fact it's more damning that camping is even considered an acceptable strategy.
Why have the option to report someone for holding a player hostage then say camping is an acceptable form of gameplay... kind of ridiculous if you ask me
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Camping is not holding the game hostage. For the game to be held hostage, it needs to be unable to progress. A camped player will die within 2 minutes, max, thereby progressing the game.
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You aren't being held hostage on the hook. You can always just suicide on the hook.
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Yes... how could I forget 😂
I didn't say anything about holding the game hostage. If you look clearly at the reportable offenses in game, I'm almost certain it mentions specifically targeting individual players. That is a reportable offense.
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I didn't say anything about holding the game hostage. If you look clearly at the reportable offenses in game, I'm almost certain it mentions specifically targeting individual players. That is a reportable offense.
It's not, though, and the mods have already pointed that out many times.
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Which means you need to prove that the killer is going out of their way to target you over other players over multiple games. Having 1 game where you get tunneled or camped to death is not being targeted.
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Which is why it's rather ironic, and basically a joke, that it's a reportable offense and still acceptable.
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when it says targeting specific individuals it means over the course of multiple games
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It's not a reportable offense, though. It only seems ironic because you're working off a faulty assumption.
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If it's not against the rules that doesn't make it faulty. There are rules that support camping being an offense regardless. Furthermore, you're still holding a player hostage which leaves them with the only option they have to leave the game, i.e die on hook
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Camping does not take a players game hostage because A: you'll die within a few minutes, and B: Being face-camped doesn't mean your impossible to save. I've saved people from face-camping killers, I've been saved from face-camping killers. I don't know why people pretend face camping means a guarunteed you cannot be saved.
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Ah yes doing a valid strategy = bad behavior
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