SBMM is ruining the game

You don't see all of the anti mmr threads? They are almost as common as tunneling and camping threads nowadays.

But yeah, I think we are committed to this. They will obviously make adjustments as we go, but the general idea of the mmr is here to stay.

I could be wrong, but I think they meant they don't see comments by the devs on the many threads, by users, pointing out the problem.

Till a certain point i do agree with you.

It became a sweat fest after sweat fest after sweat fest after sweat fest for killer, that's the reason i completely stopped playing killer for the time being.

Maybe if more people will do that, they might open their eyes, just maybe tho.

But as survivor i play soloq ever since day 1 on playstation and have absolutely no problem with it.

It is still chill for me and still escape most of my matches.

Ye well to resume the state of the game, let's say it's Camp by Daylight.

• You play survivor ? The first survivor hooked will be camped and tunneled in almost every trial.
• You play killer ? You are forced to camp and tunnel the first survivor hooked or else you will need to do a perfect game to get 1k, maybe 2k and sometimes you won't even get one kill...

The experience became garbage since the SBMM release. I had hope for this system, especially to mix players of the same level but BHVR didn't bring the balance changes needed to improve the experience in a competitive environment.

• Unbalanced maps should have been disabled and reworked : standard size for every maps, balanced layout, all killers' power usable on any map
• Number of pallets/windows should have been adjusted : 30% less pallets, 50% less windows
• Gen speed should have been adjusted as well, like increasing the time needed to finish them solo to 100 seconds

Well, the game is in the worst state it has been for years now. Some needed changes have been made prior to the SBMM release, but this SBMM negated every balance changes. Survivors are way, way too OP.

Just check on Twitch, almost no one is playing killer anymore. Some viewers are asking to the streamers why and all the streamers say the same thing : "it's impossible to play fair as a killer and i have to try hard every match, not funny, not interesting to watch and boring gameplay so i won't play killer till they fix it."

Exaggerated for the below average players, playing at a low to average MMR.

Go play at high MMR and you will come back here crying.

Do you know that players like Truetalent, Otz, Dowsey etc can't win a single trial without camping and tunneling ?

Those guys are all top 5% killers and they cannot win against good enough survivors.

And no, in a balanced environment with a working SBMM, you should never get stomped or stomp anyone, that's the point of it.

And i'm not a killer main, i'm a 50/50.

Nope they have to camp and tunnel. Getting stomped doesn't mean to get a 4k or 4 escapes. Getting stomp means 4 kills with 3 gens left or 4 escapes with 3 hooks only. That's what getting stomped means.

Where did i say i wanted to win without sweating ? You are clearly a baby at the game and i guess you don't even have 500 hours into it. You can't even understand what you read as you do petty accusation on my comments motive.

At high MMR most trials will end up with 3 to 6 hooks if you don't camp nor tunnel.

Before talking you should just go high skill and then, when you will have experienced what is the real state of the game you will be able to tell us how the game is.

ATM, thinking that the game balance is okay means clearly that you are just a noob, on both sides.

For what reasons we, the high MMR players, should listen to your selfish opinion while the WHOLE high MMR community, survivor and killer mains, know the game is way too much survivors sided ?

If you feel the balance is good when you play survivor, let me tell you, you are playing at a low skill level. Survivor has never been so easy to get 3 to 4 escapes every trials.

Ah, the personal attacks. How quaint. I never said balance was okay, just that it shouldn't be where you want it to be. The game is casual trash anyway, so trying to make things competitive is just a loosing endeavor from the onset.

I've played for three years and have more than 1600 hours in the game. Both rank one achievements for each side from years ago. I also own a cat, since we're discussing things irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Back on topic, you want easy kills, play bubba and face camp. Bam. Easy hooks, easy kills. You don't even need to try. Until crap like that is addressed and not considered perfectly legitimate, you will not see anything less than having to camp and tunnel people out of the game. It's how the game is designed from the onset.

Also, even the cream of the crop survivors die more times than they live statistically per BHVR's own data. Your anecdotal evidence is just that, and less useful than what you drop in the toilet.

Things that happen to individuals are not useful as evidence in and of themselves. Your personal general trends do not matter in the grand scheme of things. BHVR has posted stats. Actual, tangible, real data collected from thousands of hours and thousands of players. And it said you are wrong. No amount of "but my experience" can dispute cold hard numbers. Deal with it.

No... I was talking about the same numbers released by BHVR. Even rank one survivors still had less than 50% survival rate. It gets much worse the lower you get. I'm talking about stats posted by BHVR themselves.

SBMM, as reductionist as it is being based on kills/escapes, is still way better than the old rank match making.

I'm not sure if other people are genuinely experiencing something very, very different to me or they're just falling prey to confirmation bias and blaming all of their shortcomings of SBMM, but the game has been more or less the same, or slightly better, than it used to be with ranks. There's still those games where I feel put out, but the far extreme scenarios (where I'm steamrolled by seal team teabag or I noobstomp a bunch of potatoes) have greatly reduced.

Here's a tip; if you lose, suck it up and play another game. Do not; have a strop and try to deflect your experience onto other agencies such as "killer was a toxic camper", "survivors were toxic SWF" or "SBMM doesn't work!"

Your math is a bit off because you’re assuming there are equal numbers of average players and top tier players when you just take a straight average of the two. Even if you assume that at low to average skill the killers are getting 3-4 kills median results and at top tier survivors are getting 0-1 kill results, there are significantly fewer top tier players than low to average skill ones, so the overall numbers would be a weighted average between the two with a much greater weight toward the more numerous low-to-average bucket. It would be more like 90% of games are 3-4 kills and 10% of games are 0-1 kills with weighted average about 3.

Also your definition of “winning” is a bit different than what the devs are intended the game to be. They want the most common result to be some survivors live and some die, with everybody living or everybody escaping being the least common outcomes. But for that to be the case it implies generators being finished and exits open is going to be the most common result among equally skilled players, meaning that even if a killer plays well they should expect the doors to be open more often than not if the survivors also play well. Expecting it to be a 50/50 chance of the doors opening doesn’t match that design goal of some live and some die most games.

Finally keep in mind that, since there are far fewer high skill players than average ones, no matchmaking system is going to be able to consistently get a high skill killer a match against high skill survivors all the time (assuming it isn’t making you wait for ages to get a match every time.) You’ll frequently be facing lower rated players just because there often won’t be high skill players currently available for a match. Which means high skill killers will still have above average kill rates in their matches and high skill survivors will have above average escape rates. It’s just statistics, it has nothing to do with playstyles. That’s why for instance someone like Otz has something like 4 kills as his median outcome as killer and escapes 70-80% of the time as survivor, there just aren’t enough players at his skill level to make those numbers close to the overall averages of 50/50 that the game as a whole experiences.

I’m not saying you have to like the game or how it’s balanced, I’m just saying that your design goal isn’t the devs’ design goal and you estimates of why the numbers for high skill players are what they are is probably a bit off.

There have been complaints about SBMM every day since it was implemented.

Just to reply briefly:

• There are some data points on percentages of high skill players. For example, only 4% of Steam players have the Legendary Killer achievement (reached Iridescent 1) while a little less than half the players get achievements for playing an average amount of time, which implies somewhere around 8% of regular players are at a high enough skill level to get to top skill play. Also he devs have made statements periodically that something like 4% of active players were rank 1 under the old rank system. So there is some data out there suggesting the skill brackets follow the usual bell curve.
• I agree, the devs aren’t looking at hooks, they’re looking at escapes and kills since those are the ultimate goals. Hooks are just a means to an end really. In fact statistically you’ll almost never literally hook survivors 12 times in a match even when you kill all four survivors simply by virtue of the last survivor having a decent chance of dying on their first or second hook and some survivors might die through negligence on their second hook.

Mind you, I’m not commenting above one way or another on how good or bad guarding a hook is as a strategy. Generally speaking if you’re “face camping” early while all the survivors are doing gens it’s probably bad strategy if you’re hoping for more than 1-2 kills simply because by the time that first survivor on their first hook dies the gens will be done or just about done and the others probably escape. On the other hand guarding a hook when someone is only a few seconds away from advancing a hook stage is reasonable, and of course if you see a survivor going for a rescue there’s usually no reason not to take the chase assuming the gens are still up. But by and large “facecamping” for extended periods isn’t a useful tactic, while doing zone defense between a hook and nearby gens can be. Mostly though if the survivors aren’t coming to you then going to them extends your pressure.

It would be interesting to see statistics on top rated killers and survivors from the game itself, but unfortunately I’m not aware of it being available, the closest we get is when the devs post kill rates periodically for overall stats and high rank stats, or when someone counts game stats for streamers.

As It stands now, the game is a struggle to enjoy. As survivor, I feel like I escape most of my matches unless I get tunneled and face camped. As killer, I've just been defaulting to memeing to finish challenges as I'm not willing to play toxic and am either always matched with a tough SWF or baby survivors too sweet to hook.

I really miss ranked matches, as I always felt like it was a hair-raising experience as so whether I'd get a 4K as killer or get an exit gate open as survivor. It was by no means perfect matchmaking, but the types of matches I'd get didn't really feel so binary. I really hope Behavior will get a reality check and implement game design elements that promote varied and non-exploitative gameplay.

Sorry but i think that the game HAS its flaws but this attitude is too dramatic. I think your issues have nothing to do with the SBMM, simply before the SBMM it happened that you faced more casual players and those unbalances in the game were spoiled less.

BTW honestly slowing down the game a little and protecting more the survivor from tunnel and camp should help the meta game to flow in the right direction.: what if every gen requires 120 seconds instead of 80? What if a survivor requires 120 seconds per hook state instead of 60?

The increase of time for the gens will make the TB less impactful and the game slower and better for the chasing killers. Obv some perks like pop should be nerfed.

The increase of the hook stages, increased also in relationship with the already increased gen time, will make camping time expensive and a viable strategy only in the endgame.

We all know the 2 main issues in the game itself (ignoring perks, ignoring toxicity, the game itself) are the excessive speed compared to the chasing times for killers and the camping/tunneling of killers for survivors.