It's funny, Boons did something good: It proved survivors DO have time to look for totems.
Now give us back old Undying until you nerf Boons.
Comments
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There really is not much reason to not restore undying since boons can flat out override hex totems.
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Yeah but...all 5 of them? I have not once seen all 5 totems become blessed in a match. More often than not, they come back to the spots they already know.
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Oh geez. Another us vs them.
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Only until Boons are nerfed
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In fairness, "this proved that there was enough time to go tackle totems in a match, which negates arguments about how undying etc. was busted because that's too much" is a solid argument, even if the phrasing isn't
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The only Boon that seems to require a nerf so far is Circle of Healing. The other two aren’t as powerful or popular as that one. My guess is Mikaela’s balance pass is coming in the next mid-chapter patch so maybe we’ll see CoH get a healing speed decrease then.
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Now that doing all the totems isn't just a big suicidal timesink, yes, they can do bones.
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Shadow Step is TORTURE on indoor maps.
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I haven’t had that much trouble with it but that’s just me. 🤷♂️ (Honestly I think Iron Will 3 gives me more trouble than Shadowstep.)
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How often did Undying actually get Ruin (bc let's be honest what else did people use old Undying with?) through every totem without getting broken? being a Hex itself they could very well get lucky and find Undying first anyways.
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It's not quite that solid.
Yeah, survivors have time to hunt down a totem and fix it, but only because the reward they get saves them the time they invest.
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I don't agree with this.
In the worst case scenario with old Undying you had to cleanse all five totems, which is something you still don't have time for. It's the same reason people complain about NOED: either you spend the time looking for all five totems and you die because now you don't have time to get the gens done, or you don't spend the time hunting for totems and you die to NOED.
To use a boon totem, you literally just need to find one totem and you can keep coming back to it as often as you like. On top of that, you will typically find at least one totem without actively having to look for it. You don't have to spend the time trying to find the more well hidden totems.
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Is not cleansing Ruin and preventing the regression of gens not enough of a reward for the time investment of searching for totems?
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And not doing totems before would save you time only if the totem effect didn't delay you further, which meant you'd save the time invested in the long run.
"Disabling the Killer's perk for the rest of the game" should be enough reward on its own, I don't get why said perk at least buying some time in its destruction is treated as an unfair thing rather than one of the benefits it has when you can't use it otherwise. I swear, this is the same argument Pinhead's box keeps getting "it doesn't give you anything if you do it", because "not losing to it" is not a benefit enough?
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As a survivor, I stopped running boon because I kept running to groups wasting time looking for the 'perfect' spot.
All while the killer is downing and hooking people and no ones on gens.
Though I'm not saying that they can't be super impactful ,but my god it feels like it's one or the other. Either it gets a lot of value or just a lot of survivors walking into the killer and not doing much.
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well, there actually is a valid reason for behaviour to not restore old undying:
They clearly are hypocrites survivor sided people.
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Yea but you see we really don't. If by chance we do find one and have a boon perk then maybe its a good idea to bless it depending on where it is but as far as the time goes thats a big no. Most of the time I go on full totem duty my entire team dies before I find all 5.
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you cant compare the old undying paired with ruin to boons.
just anything to complain bro.
and I'm not saying boons aren't fair but to compare hexes to boons is just daft honestly
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I agree.
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3 totems~ for 2 perks. Plus, Plaything requires 4 totems to be done for the price of one perk. It's not some unachievable feat, especially with totem spawns getting easier and easier to find. Look at Eyrie.
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Boons are better than Hex's lol
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This is a strange comment on all three points being made here. So, let's go point by point! I've got nothing else to do while up with insomnia, anyway. So...
Point one: Proving that survivors have time to look for totems. This isn't strictly accurate- they have time to look for one totem, that they typically return to. Hunting down all five isn't quite as monumental a task as some make it out to be with the proper tools, but survivors still don't have to do that in order to make use of their boons, so the point doesn't stand.
Point two: Old Undying. The equivalence you're drawing here is a false one- boons are (ostensibly) balanced around being semi-permanent but interruptible, and hexes are not. That's why current Undying is still very strong, and old Undying was broken. With the exception of Circle Of Healing, which is busted, the current boon totem perks are pretty balanced when it comes to being infinitely available with a time investment- the same could not be said for all hexes, and in order to make that true, you'd have to nerf some.
Point three: "Until you nerf boons". Balance changes shouldn't be made just to cover separate balance issues, and old Undying wouldn't even cover this issue anyway. Besides, boons don't really need a nerf (unless you consider QoL things like louder audio radius for killers a nerf, in which case sure), but Circle of Healing does.
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Detectives Hunch + map & bead exist.
Any survivor who makes the claim that without swf you cant find totems is a liar.
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Boons as a concept are alright, even the reblessing of them. Maybe just give them a CD? CoH could use some tweaking though. No need to power creep the other side to compensate.
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Point one: if each survivor theoretically has time to look for one totem, that's still 4/5 totems on the map. After they got made more obvious again. And some just spawn in your face. So...
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I do generally agree that a team who isn't on the back foot generally has time to go look for all the totems, but generally speaking they don't have any actual need to- and the point I was making is that boons have nothing to do with it, because not everyone on a team runs them and only one totem really needs to be found.
Tracking totems isn't hard but in fairness survivors don't really need to- and old Undying isn't busted because it makes survivors hunt for each totem, they can do that, it's busted because it keeps a really strong hex effect in the trial for a much longer time, and that's pretty damn punishing.
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The only thing it proved is that totems were not a good mechanic at least for survivors back then, you could spend 20 - 25 seconds (without perks or maps) looking for one and find a dull totem that did nothing for you, at that point you would have wasted a good 25+ seconds doing nothing, now if you find one you get a team effect. it just proves that the mechanic was not good enough for a survivor to interact with the totem back then. if boons are nerfed then we just go back to the old just do gens all game type of gameplay...
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Not if they have to do it five times before it pays off.
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Circle of healing should of just never existed tbh, it's a balance nightmare giving a team wide heal when healing is so strong in this game completely ruining certain killers.
Shadow step is annoying but I feel it's overall fair.
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so you agree its ridiculous for 1 player to have to do the same totem an uncapped number of times for each of the 4 survivors in their match running a boon?
easily more than 3 times.
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you can't, they don't break and are infinitely reusable. They'll never be done.
Make boons breakable/deactivate permanently and then killers can.
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Literally no one says that. Solo survivors don't say they cant find totems, they say they should know how many have been done without using a perk slot, just like swf.
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Do you have any idea of how ridiculous it is to have multiple Coh's up and no way to remove them permanently except for killing survs?
Do you have any idea how stupid it is to have to tunnel and camp survivors because you know they can just run off to multiple Coh's?
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Totems, Survivor Spawns, and maps have issues. But let's just give them almost 200 perks to play with and hope they don't notice.
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Don't they just needa find 1 for boon??
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No. The only thing boons did was prove that survivors won't just sit on gens if you give them something else to do that benefits them. Adding a secondary objective, that isn't mandatory, can slow the game down if the survivors get something good in return.
Just saying if the game allowed you to craft items in each trial then a lot of survivors would waste time doing it. Even if they couldn't keep the item after the game ends.
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I disagree, cleansing 5 totems removes at least 2 perks, if not more, from the killers repertoire. That alone makes it worth it.
This would only be difficult if you or your teammates are bad at looping or doing gens while the killer is chasing someone, which isn’t a problem with totems but a problem with people having a lack of skill.
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It would also be difficult if the killer isn't bad at looping or pressuring gens.
Five totems for two perks is still really strong slowdown, and again, mostly hurts solos while having less impact on swiffers.
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I like the concept of boons, I just think they need tweaking. I've noticed that as an experienced killer I just end up sweating so much to keep up. If they wear destroyed when snuffed I'd be happy as a clam. But with 4 naughty elves to chase with busy hands they are back up in seconds. Now with the absence of any meaningful ranking system to care about sometimes it feels like if the game goes South you may as well tunnel somebody and camp their second stage into death. One reason to obviously get somebody out of the game quickly to relieve pressure for the killer. Second is because it usually draws out the alturistic nature of the survivors and you can change their behaviour from gen rushing to quickly snowball them (I use stbfl). I never used to do this and still dislike it as a tactical move but survivors will use literally everything at their disposal to win, so must you as a killer If you don't want to get stomped.
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The only thing solo needs is a chat wheel to implement some sort of communications without adding comms. The game shouldn't be balanced around idiot potatoes that can't do bones or last more than 5 seconds in a chase. Perks and abilities shouldn't be nerfed to make things easier for bad players. Rather, matchmaking should make sure new players are never put up with veterans, and perhaps the devs should limit the amount of perks allowed for lowest ranks.
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Sounds good on paper but so long as they are only booning that means old undying would just basically be infinite.
Actually you know what, that could work.
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worst case is you had to cleanse 4 cuz you wouldn’t have to cleanse undying on its own
while yes, sometimes you have a well hidden totem or 2 on a map, the odds of both undying working 4 times and the last one being on a well hidden totem AND the odds of there being a well hidden totem are quite slim all together
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^^^
I realized a shortly after release that re-lighting a boon in soloQ that the killer already knows the location of to snuff negatively impacts my team. Re-lighting a boon 3-4 times is essentially 3v1ing the game for the killer (from a doing gens perspective).
Boon usage has already dropped alot since release. It will continue to drop as more survivors realize (again) that doing gens is a more effective strategy than hunting totems and cleansing them. Any substantial nerf to CoH would make it dead to soloQ.
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Survivors only have time to look for totems because Boon totems waste Killers time.
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placing totem boon for 12 or 24 seconds, indoor maps (since no floor limitation) or on other side or gens is well invested time. so many unhook, protection hits or when chase being dropped.
in less then a minute im back in action with full hp.
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It's 24 seconds to place a totem, 8 seconds to go to the totems location, the amount of time finding a totem to bless which is probably around 16 seconds and 16 seconds for a heal.
It takes about 2 to 3 heals for CoH to break even with Self-Care. If the Killer finds the totem before and breaks it, blessing the totem is not worth it.
If there is a location on the far side of the map with a finished generator, then a boon totem becomes better because it's less likely to get broke and even it if does, it wasted killer time finding it. So large maps make boon totems better.
Also, 2 storied maps that have few entrances to the 2 levels, so Midwich school. The game has to many entrances between the 2 levels.
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Just replace CoH with an entirely new perk. The perk should have never existed to begin with, same for old Undying which only had synergy with Ruin, Haunted Ground, and Retribution. Both CoH and old Undying are horribly designed perks.
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To be honest, survivors can only bless one totem so it's literally impossible for survivors to bless 5 totems in a match. And even so, if you know the killer can't destroy totems. Why looking for a new totem to boon? Unless you need to replace it because you'll think it will be better elsewhere but the place you originally had though about.
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Yes, i have an idea how it was, since i cleansed 5 hex totems in a single match all by myself.
Wanna know what? I want old Undying back, because boons exist and because survivors desperately need a secondary objective.
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Which creates another objective for the killer. An objective that doesn´t stop at 5 cleanses.
How would anyone think "cleansing 5 totems for 4 survivors (4!) is to much", but cleansing a possibly infinite amount of boons for 1 killer is totally fine"?
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