Why NOED is unfair. (My opinion)

There is a Obsession in every match even without a corresponding perk. Thus I would have to assume Deceisive Strike every game. Also you can have Deceisive Strike without being the obsession once more forcing me to play around a perk that is not there.

Adrenaline, Deliverance, Unbreakable...I'm all Ears, Undying...both sides have plenty of "hidden" perks that make quit a difference and you will only notice them once it is too late.

I am not saying that NoeD should stay the same. We can talk about it being too strong or having too little counterplay. I am just saying that the problem is not it's hidden nature in activation.

If I had to change it I would say that survivor can see the aura of the totem with NoeD the same way they can with Hex: Plaything. This would make its counterplay more accessible.

And starting the match while being exposed?

Are you sure about that?

There wasn't an obsession every game, but there is now, i don't know the patch, but every game, whatever the perks, there is an obsession.

Actually, yes, I'd like it more if NOED were a Hex that the Killer couldn't see but it was active at the beginning of the trial.

I've only got to cleanse one totem now instead of five.

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Double exposed causes Survivors hit to instantly DC

You do realize that's 4% speed increase with instant downs and Undying?

And how about we just make NoeDs totem visible to survivors once it activates like it is the case for Hex: Plaything. Then survivors could search for it and disarm it in time while still leaving the perk the same as it is now.

Is it scummy to use a perk that is in the game: No.

It is hidden the entire game, until is is revealed and active. This is the standard in the game, DS, BT, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Deliverance, Head On, Make Your Choice, Overcharge, Dragon's Grip, etc. etc. etc. etc. it is literally how pretty much every single perk works in this game, they don't project themselves.

It is hidden the entire game till the end game, because it is literally not active and equivalent to an empty slot till that point.

Just do bones is not a valid strategy? Well it is, but personally I would suggest: Don't do Bones, Remember where they are and do 1 bone at the end of the game unless you bring perks to do bones. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to find that last totem that wasn't cleansed and you will antagonize people using boons.

Additionally you can simply open the gates and leave the one person they wacked down with NOED, just because you did all 5 gens doesn't mean that survivors are all entitled to leave at that point. The game hasn't ended and the end-game is part of the game.

Whether or not you like it, the perk is actually fair. It is strong, yet has very clear counter play and a limited time in which it is active.

Double exposed is like a double negative. Hit a healthy survivor, and that survivor gains the Endurance status for 60 seconds.👍

Dull totems serve no purpose besides perks that synergize with them such as undying, boons etc. I believe dull totems should give killers a small boost to breaking gens,pallets, just like fire up except the number decreases when a dull totem gets cleansed. Booning the totem doesn't reduce the boost and retinking a totem with hex pentimento doesn't increase it again. This feature should probably make cleansing a totem not only more important but also reduces a surprise from NOED.

It will never be a problem if four randos with zero comms coordinate that effort.

Unless, of course, the killer didn't bring NOED, giving them very strong slowdown without needing a perk slot.

DH I can understand, the BT bodyblock has to go, but if you're still complaining about DS, you smashed your face into it, and Deliverance is also a terrible one to complain about. It is incredibly unlikely to fire and overall not that helpful outside of swiffers.

It's not M1 only. Some special attacks won't work, but a ton of killers can use their power as normal. Spirit and I think Nurse can still smack you coming out of their power to instadown you, for example. Pinhead and Clown can still slow you down and get their slug on.

This is what a lot of people don't realise: No, it's not possible for NOED to be deactivated without it getting value. Because the counterplay is, most of the time, so involved that it's already getting value from that. And the instadown isn't the only value.

Only if you are immobilised from fifth gen being done to the moment the hex goes down do you not get value out of NOED. If it doesn't pop up at all, you got a ton of value out of it. More than you would've gotten out of Thanatophobia, for example.

I love how in these discussions people try and act like this is a 1v1 game.

70 seconds spread amongst 4 people, specifically the side that chooses how fast the match is going via gen speeds.

16 perk slots for just 1 person to bring something other than BT/DS/DH/COH

Perhaps the meta is so stale because survivors would rather claim something is "unfun" "unfair" or "op" rather than swap a meta perk for one that would help with their specific issues.

It isn't about fixing bad game design, I personally find that once you know the 10 possible spawn points on each map for totems, the perk becomes superfluous, but if remembering 10 places is too much, they gave you a perk.

The counterplay to it is to not immediately yank the exit gates open when the gens are done and someone was immediately downed, and then to find the totem and cleanse it so you can go for the rescue.

Alternatively, do open the exit gates and leave the match. NOED probably doesn't make a massive difference in survival rates if someone was already getting facecamped in the middle of the map and the entire team is trying to go for the save. Somebody's going to die.

As strange as this might sound to someone who plays survivor (because this is all survivors ever do 90% of the time), the counterplay is emphatically NOT to hurl yourself at the hook with two other people in an attempt to go for the save right off the bat and get the entire team downed at once.

The counterplay is also not to just cleanse totems all match. It's not a worthwhile investment. Instead, consider memorizing where totems are when you see them so that you can come back to them when NOED is in play. That strategy is the bane of my existence when I run NOED; it'll just be gone immediately.

While this brings up some good points, it's not really a fair comparison.

First of all, you do know when Dead Hard is coming. Dead Hard is always coming.

Secondly, DS (and BT) might be a better example. It's as "overpowered" as NOED in that it denies you downs as easily as NOED gives them and encourages you to play suboptimally, but if you choose to ignore BT and DS and just power through them to tunnel one survivor, that might be suboptimal in the short run, but not so much that you're throwing the entire match - you lose a few seconds. It can even be in a killer's best interests to power through them and kill one survivor as early as possible, because if you finish a survivor off within the first couple of gens being popped, the match is already decided.

On the other hand, if survivors just run around doing bones the entire match, they're wasting enough time to give the killer a serious advantage. NOED isn't even in the majority of killer builds, so it's almost always a waste.

I'm not in favor of nerfing NOED, and I'm also not in favor of nerfing survivor second chance perks like DH, BT, and DS. They serve a purpose, and NOED only has a very limited amount of usefulness against a team that knows what they're doing and doesn't just happily kamikaze themselves at every chance to get a post-EGC save (this is almost as bad of a strategy without NOED active as it is with).

If NOED was nerfed or removed, it'd render a lot of endgame builds (and perks) unviable. That's a fun playstyle to experiment with, and it can make some low-tier killers viable. For example:

Yes, it's a risky build, but it pays off more often than not, and I'll be up in arms if it's going anywhere.